side stripe tongue hanging out! help!!!

[helenpottage]

I started a new thread earlier but noone is giving me any advice about my remaining baby side stripe cham!!! i'm gonna lose him tonight i'm certain. when i came in from work today i found my baby cham, only just, clinging to a leaf in his viv. when i looked closer, his tongue is hanging out and he is very lifeless. i've given as much info as i think i can in my other thread as to all of the problems i've had since i got them/him. his tongue is very dark red as though there is alot of blod trapped in it. i think he is too far gone to help him but any advice would be very very appriciated!!!


please can someone help??

i've tried to give him a drink but he wont take it, he wont take any foo either. i've tried to coax him into retracting his tongue but he wont do that either. i've been fighting for days now to save my babies but no one seems to be helping me!! (i dont mean to sound ungrateful, i'm just so so so stressed and worried).

my other thread is labeled "Side stripe chameleon (rudis) baby, need help urgent, dying!!! " if you need any info.

please someone help!!!!!!!!

 

[Julirs]

Did you overheat them? They need cooler temps than other chams. What are your temps? How old?

 

[helenpottage]

we were told by the shop that they needed temps of 27 degrees cels but i've literally just found info on the web that says they need lower temps than that!!! i think i have been miss informed which has nearly cost me two gorgeous baby cams. one has already died and the other i dont think is gnna see the night thru.
they were only 6 weeks old. i've been tod that they may be too young to have been sold.... is this true?

 

[jannb]

It sounds like he needs to go to the vet ASAP

 

[helenpottage]

this is my problem, my closest reptile vet is over 200 miles away!! i very much doubt he wouldsurvive the journey if i had transport. i cant even get in touch with a breeder to see if there maybe something they can do. i really appreciate your advice..... its more than most other people have given.

 

[BocaJan]

When asking for help it is helpful for our Senior Members and Breeders to have answers to these questions.

Vields like to bask at about 85 deg at the top of the cage with plenty of plants so they can go down under the leaves closer to the bottom to cool down. Regular daytime temps should run about 75 - 80 with night time temps about 65 - 75. Night time needs to be cooler then the day time temps. If your home is warm during the day they may not need a light bulb to bask under, especially if you can't mist.

I mist mine 3 times a day for about 5 minutes. I watch them drink. When they start to turn away from the water to hide under a leaf I stop misting. It is also a good idea to have a dripper to drink. My veilds stay in humidity of 50-70%. After I mist it is about 70 then gets down to 45 - 50 when I show up again.

Please be sure to answer the questions below and I hope for the best for your new chams.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Pictures are helpful

 

[helenpottage]

When asking for help it is helpful for our Senior Members and Breeders to have answers to these questions.

Vields like to bask at about 85 deg at the top of the cage with plenty of plants so they can go down under the leaves closer to the bottom to cool down. Regular daytime temps should run about 75 - 80 with night time temps about 65 - 75. Night time needs to be cooler then the day time temps. If your home is warm during the day they may not need a light bulb to bask under, especially if you can't mist.

I mist mine 3 times a day for about 5 minutes. I watch them drink. When they start to turn away from the water to hide under a leaf I stop misting. It is also a good idea to have a dripper to drink. My veilds stay in humidity of 50-70%. After I mist it is about 70 then gets down to 45 - 50 when I show up again.


Please be sure to answer the questions below and I hope for the best for your new chams.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Pictures are helpful

i did put in my FIRST POST that i had listed everything i had in another thread titled "Side stripe chameleon (rudis) baby, need help urgent, dying!!! "
i will list again though.......

 

[helenpottage]

to try and follow what you need to know; my chams were only 6 weeks old, i have had them for 4 days now. i am feeding them, small crickets (which i feed on bits of chopped carrott), the odd meal worm and the odd waxworm (i know they are high in fat so i tend not to give them too many of these). i cant remember the exact humidity level as i'm at work so i cant check. the temp is at roughly between 25 and 27 degrees celsius daytime and around 18 -19 night time (this is what the shop we got them from advised). the viv we are usin is a, i think its called, an 'exotera' wooden viv with glass front doors. its size is 2ft x 1ft. as they were only 3 inches long we were told this would be big enough (they suggested to buy the one we did). we basically told them to give us all of the stuff we needed for the chams to be well supplied.
for heat i'm using a 20w (icould be wrong about the wattage) ceramic heater and a ...... sorry i cant remember the make of the uv tube we are using but i do remember it being the same as what they used in the shop. like i said before, its basically what they told us to use. the foliage in the viv is fake green leaves and vines (again, what they suggested) we have a small waterfall in the viv because i know they cant see static water only moving water. we are also spraying the viv twice a day to keep the humidity up.
as they were so young i cant 'sex' them as nothing has developed properly apparently....
the symptoms they were suffering from were as folows; one would not eat or drink from day one so turned very thin, we tried to coax it into drinking from a small syringe and a small pippette but it wouldn't have it, even trying it with the smallest crickets and mealworms we had but it just wouldn't take those either. that one sadly died last night in my hand while trying to get it to drink. the other, has a very swollen left eye and now that too wont eat or drink from anything we try. it stays very still, almost lifeless in the viv and doesn't put up a fight if you attempt to handle him. he is slowly fading away and i cant help him as i dont know what to do! i'm not expecting to find him alive by the time i get in from work. like i said before the guy in the shop doen't seem to want to know, even tho i only bought them 4 days ago.

if i've missed anything then please ask and i'll try my best to answer with as much detail as possible.

 

[BocaJan]

A vet is probably the best solution. We can only offer suggestions based on what you tell us. Continue to mist - for at least 5 minutes at a time, and don't have a basking light on unless your home is very cold. Keep the UVB tube on for 12 hours during the day and mist, mist, and mist.

Personally, I think the store should replace your chameleons with healthy ones. It sounds like they sold you sick chams.

 

[TreelionsUK]

i just posted on chamlovers thread,Try using Critical care formula

 

[helenpottage]

funny you should say that because a vet that i rang told us that he may have sold us sick chams. when i spoke to the guy today i said that they may have already been sick when we got them he denied it and said that they were fine and the breeder is a 'sound guy'....... what ever that is supposed to mean!
i said that i think he should credit us for them or replace them and he said no. he said they only came with a 24hr guarantee. the problem with that is, i bought them on monday and he was closed the following day so that means my guarantee would have pointless!
he told us the temps which they should be in, which i'm beginning to find out was far too warm for them! it sounds to me that we have in affect 'cooked them' for want of a better way of putting it. does anyone have any idea what i can do to make him comfortable or help him pull through because i cant reach a vet?

 

[helenpottage]

sorry but to carry on........ he told us we only had to mist them twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. i'm guessing that is wrong, i did actualy think this wasn't enough and did it 3 times daily.....

plus, where can i buy 'critical care formula'?? will this help him? (stupid question?)

 

[TreelionsUK]

I only use a tiny amount of heat for my babys,They do better with a warm background temp,too much heat can overcome them with ease

Misting 3 times is fine as long as the viv drys FULLY inbetween mistings

CCF is a blend of energy suppying maltodextrins with protein digests for reptiles whose metabolism may be disturbed,loss of appetite,starvation surgery etc

 

[skeeta]

So sorry, this has got to be very hard for you. The store certainly made things difficult on many levels. First and foremost (you seem to be new to chameleons) Rudis are an advanced chameleon to keep and have a notoriously high mortality rate as youngsters.
In other words, not forgiving of errors, even with experts. The store had no business selling you them. They are also an endangered species (in the wild) if I'm not mistaken.

The store helped make them sick in countless ways. Waterfall, humidity, lighting, temperature, supplementation, I assume you kept 2 in one enclosure (also generally speaking, a no-no), etc.

Bottom line is, the only thing you REALLY did wrong was enter the relationship unprepared. Chameleon keeping is a STEEP learning curve, and some chams are not for beginners at all.

So sorry again, and I hope someone with experience can help you save your other little guy, but it looks pretty grim.

Try to PM someone like Trace who knows the mountain species very well.

Good luck!

 

[Lizardlover]

thats a sign of either mbd het (hyper extended tongue) definetly go to a vet

 

[helenpottage]

thanx for all of the replies guys you've got no idea how good is to know people care and for all of the info your passing on.

i totally agree that i entered the cham lifestyle very unprepared and without the knowledge i should have so i do admit that was wrong on my behalf.....
i also think he should not have sold them to me, i did tell him i had never had a reptile before.....

i did also have them both in the same viv, i was told they would be fine as they were so small and as they were siblings. also i have made a mistake with the name of them too. (from what very little info i have found on the web about the species and what they look like) they are 'ruwenzori side striped chameleons'......if this helps things at all!!


i have managed to find a vet near me that specialise in reptiles and they said i have to take him in for 9 in the morning. fingers crosed he makes it thru the night.

P.s. this forum does actualy feel quite comforting, thanx again guys!

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Don't have much first hand knowledge but...

It does sound like they got cooked. They need cool temps with high moisture/ humidity. I had ten babies pop out on the 4th of this month. I just have a 5.0 tube on them for light, so very little extra heat/light on them, and a 25 watt heat lamp that only comes on first thing in the morning for a few hours, in one corner of a 38 gal. glass tank. They get misted 8 times a day, ( let dry out in between ) and I have 9, four inch potted live plants in the enclosure to add humidity. + lots of tiny branches. Here's a couple of pics. Also, A/C in the house gets them down in the 60's at night with highest temp. under lamp at 80. Rest of tanks temp. stays around 76 daytime. But could feel higher to the Rudis, with humidity factor.
The prognosis for your remaining 6 week old does'nt sound good. Sorry, you've had to go through this exprience.

 

[helenpottage]

i just wish i had found this forum before all of this happened. i did seek more advice fom other shops and they all contradicted each other.

thanx to all for the info and advice, i really do apreciate it.

i'll keep you posted as to what happens if he makes it thru the night and what the vet says.

Thanx again.

 

[chamlover]

Hi,

We were sharing the same problem. How is your little guy doing? Mine passed away this morning. I think we both got sold chams that were not well. My breeder is on vacation but i'm sure he will stand by his animals. I've already emailed everyday to let him know what was going on with the babies. I knew from the first day that mine wasn't going to make it and it soundls like i am more experienced than you are at this. So you see, it isn't only you. If you don't start with a healthy cham , you can only do so much and when they are so little there is almost nothing that you can do. I hope your little one is doing better. Keep us informed.

Debby

 

[helenpottage]

hi debby thanx for your post,
i'm afraid to report that the little guy passed away this morning too. he didnt even make it thru the night. i rang the vet this morning and cancelled the appointment and explained what happened and they too said we must have been sold too very poorly chams.
i have been back to the shop where i got them and after some arguing he caved and admitted they must have been ill. he gave me a £50 credit note (which i accepted as i wasn't gonna get anything at first). i know £50 is no replacement for my baby chams but its better than nothing.
thanx for everyones support and i hope you all better luck than i had.

thanx again.