So annoyed and Upset .... Still no recovery HELP!

[bradley]

The uv bulb shouldn't give out lots of heat really. You ideally want to move the cage away from the window as the light coming through as it is not benefiting the chameleon in any way.

I would use a 40 watt household reflector bulb in the dome and get a linear 5.0 tube not a compact which you had before as this was most likely the cause of the eye problem.

The 10.0 would have been fine but many people use the 5.0 with no problems. In a cage that size set up correctly the 10.0 would have still been an ok option as they really do not give off much more uv than the 5.0

 

[Olimpia]

Yes, I would move the cage away from the window, I think that it is always going to give you more trouble with your temps than it's worth. In a screen cage your coolest ambient temps should be room temp (75°) and not in the 80's, and I think the window is not letting him cool off at all.

And I don't think that your guy's eye issues are necessarily light-related. Could you post a photo of him and his eye? Try to get a crisp, close shot so we can see what it looks like. Because if he does have an infection then changing the lighting isn't going to cure anything, it just won't irritate things further.

 

[Ladynyce]

Yes, I would move the cage away from the window, I think that it is always going to give you more trouble with your temps than it's worth. In a screen cage your coolest ambient temps should be room temp (75°) and not in the 80's, and I think the window is not letting him cool off at all.

And I don't think that your guy's eye issues are necessarily light-related. Could you post a photo of him and his eye? Try to get a crisp, close shot so we can see what it looks like. Because if he does have an infection then changing the lighting isn't going to cure anything, it just won't irritate things further.

I will post you a picture of his eye in a minute! I brought him already to the vet and they had sedated him to look at his eye, put him under medication lotion for the eye every 8 hours. It never did anything but make both his eyes close. But since I have taken the light off I have seen a change in his mood and how much more he moves around. His left eye is still bad and I just seen it swell up right now and rubbing it on leafs but I don't know what else to do because clearly the vet here said she was treating his eye like a tumour and that's the meds she gave me! Don't know what else to do from here but believe it was just the light I guess .... I called around to see if there were any other vets that works with exotic reps and found NONE... ughhh ... but I am leaving the light off for now and taking hhim away from the window !! I will post a picture of his eye the best I can

 

[Ladynyce]

Yes, I would move the cage away from the window, I think that it is always going to give you more trouble with your temps than it's worth. In a screen cage your coolest ambient temps should be room temp (75°) and not in the 80's, and I think the window is not letting him cool off at all.

And I don't think that your guy's eye issues are necessarily light-related. Could you post a photo of him and his eye? Try to get a crisp, close shot so we can see what it looks like. Because if he does have an infection then changing the lighting isn't going to cure anything, it just won't irritate things further.

The first 2 is his left eye which is the bad eye, but he opened it because he was moving around

And this is his right eye that is doing so much better since the light came off for a week but still for some reason black around the eye

He is still a baby ... I believe maybe 6 months I guess not to sure the store never told me how old he was but he is a little guy!

 

[Chameleon Company]

you should use this http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/reptile_uvb100.php

I cannot recommend those products. So far, the compact-florescent and compact-incandescent styles of UVB have been notoriously linked to many eye-issue problems in chameleons.

As JannB and others have recommended, such as the Reptisun 5.0 tube has a time-tested track-record of success.

Good luck.

 

[Lovereps]

What a handsome little fellow!
It's great that your cham has been improving.
Chams are rather slow healers--but at least he is heading in the right direction.

The Tobrex is actually a very good antibiotic eye medication.
Of course, any infection needs the right antibiotic, so not every infection will be cured by any particular antibiotic.
That is why vets and other doctors try to do a culture--to know which medicine will kill a particular infection.

If it is an eye infection, oftentimes an oral antibiotic is needed as well as the eye drops or ointment.
This is because the infection can be present both in the eyes and the sinuses near them.

One other cause of eye problems in chams that many people are not aware of is vitamin deficiency, especially vitamin A.
The best way to prevent deficiencies is to provide a variety of well-fed feeder insects, dusted lightly with the 3 types of supplements, following this schedule:

Calcium without vitamin D3 - used almost with every feeding.
Calcium with vitamin D3 - 2x a month
Multivitamin - 2x a month

Excessive amounts vitamin D3 can cause serious health problems, so it is important to use the calcium without D3 most often.

In case you haven't seen it already, this caresheet has a lot of valuable info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

He will need a UVB light source soon and the the Reptisun 5.0 tube is safe and effective. As with most UVB bulbs, you'll need to replace it in 6 months. It will still light up just fine BUT it will give out too little UVB after around 6 months.

Hope this helps you out

 

[Ladynyce]

What a handsome little fellow!
It's great that your cham has been improving.
Chams are rather slow healers--but at least he is heading in the right direction.

The Tobrex is actually a very good antibiotic eye medication.
Of course, any infection needs the right antibiotic, so not every infection will be cured by any particular antibiotic.
That is why vets and other doctors try to do a culture--to know which medicine will kill a particular infection.

If it is an eye infection, oftentimes an oral antibiotic is needed as well as the eye drops or ointment.
This is because the infection can be present both in the eyes and the sinuses near them.

One other cause of eye problems in chams that many people are not aware of is vitamin deficiency, especially vitamin A.
The best way to prevent deficiencies is to provide a variety of well-fed feeder insects, dusted lightly with the 3 types of supplements, following this schedule:

Calcium without vitamin D3 - used almost with every feeding.
Calcium with vitamin D3 - 2x a month
Multivitamin - 2x a month

Excessive amounts vitamin D3 can cause serious health problems, so it is important to use the calcium without D3 most often.

In case you haven't seen it already, this caresheet has a lot of valuable info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

He will need a UVB light source soon and the the Reptisun 5.0 tube is safe and effective. As with most UVB bulbs, you'll need to replace it in 6 months. It will still light up just fine BUT it will give out too little UVB after around 6 months.

Hope this helps you out

Oh wow, everything I need to know in one shot thank you so much! I am so happy that he is coming around its great ... I am so happy !!! The sun and the light was too much for him and the pet store don't know what they are taking about when they are telling me to get this that and the third for him when all of that is clearly wrong. They gave me a vit with calcium and d3 in it and told me to give it too him with every feeding. Thennnnn they said that I am only suppose to give him 4 crickets a day that's it. Clearly I think he needs more cuz he is skinny!!! They gave me all the wrong info as well as my vet, which shes telling me to make sure his basking is 110, clearly his life has been hell since he was here. I should have known it was so hot because I went threw 2 real plants already and they both died on me, most likely because the heat and sun is blazing threw the window. I have done one of the care sheets already at the front of my post! He has officially been moved. I am cleaning out his cage tonight and next week I am going to get him a new light. I always think my sons room is too mucky as well for him cuz I cant even be in there for too long its I feel sticky. I always spray the cage for at lease 5 minutes 4 times a day, I have a schedule for him. He knows when its feeding time because he goes down to the bottom of the cage to basically show me he is hungry then I personally feed him instead of them running all over the cage. Here I can keep track of what he is eating. What vits should I get ...???

 

[Lovereps]

I'm always happy to help a caring cham owner

Sadly, I think most of us can relate to being given bad care advice and/or sold the wrong things
If I hadn't found this forum a few years ago, my chams would not have made it.

When I went into one local petstore and asked if they had calcium without D3 they looked at me like I had 3 heads and asked me why I would want that
Like this one:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-calcium-without-d3/

This is the multivitamin that I use--you need to be careful since they make the same vitamin withD3--the one to get is without D3

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/zoo-med-reptivite-without-d3-2oz/

Some folks prefer this one:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-herptivite-supplement/

If you feed a variety of well-fed insects to your cham, then the multivitamin supplement is just a bit of insurance.
The calcium is needed because many types of feeders. like crickets, have to be dusted with it to correct the calcium balance that they lack.

If he has been kept too hot, then he may really appreciate some extra mistings.

 

[Ladynyce]

I'm always happy to help a caring cham owner

Sadly, I think most of us can relate to being given bad care advice and/or sold the wrong things
If I hadn't found this forum a few years ago, my chams would not have made it.

When I went into one local petstore and asked if they had calcium without D3 they looked at me like I had 3 heads and asked me why I would want that
Like this one:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-calcium-without-d3/

This is the multivitamin that I use--you need to be careful since they make the same vitamin withD3--the one to get is without D3

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/zoo-med-reptivite-without-d3-2oz/

Some folks prefer this one:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-herptivite-supplement/

If you feed a variety of well-fed insects to your cham, then the multivitamin supplement is just a bit of insurance.
The calcium is needed because many types of feeders. like crickets, have to be dusted with it to correct the calcium balance that they lack.

If he has been kept too hot, then he may really appreciate some extra mistings.

Thank you so much hun, I appreciate it ... I just finished cleaning his cage he wasn't to happy about that LOL, I am definitely going to get those vit ASAP. And for the lights I know what to get but would you think its nessary to get them right away or left his eyes do without them for a bit??? and how about the heating light ??? Should I wait a bit for those and focus on the vits right now??? or should I get the lights regardless or how his eye is at the moment ???

 

[Ladynyce]

Thank you so much hun, I appreciate it ... I just finished cleaning his cage he wasn't to happy about that LOL, I am definitely going to get those vit ASAP. And for the lights I know what to get but would you think its nessary to get them right away or left his eyes do without them for a bit??? and how about the heating light ??? Should I wait a bit for those and focus on the vits right now??? or should I get the lights regardless or how his eye is at the moment ???

I just looked at your links, so for the light I need a long light not a small round light bulb ?? Its the long light bulb I need now??

 

[Lovereps]

The long Reptisun 5.0 bulb is preferable.
There have been very serious problems in the past with some compact bulbs.
There have been recent complaints of eye trouble with chams kept under compact UVB bulbs, so I do not know how safe they are for chameleons.

If you're going to keep live plants, a long double fixture can hold a bulb for the plants as well as the UVB bulb.
A plant bulb is just a regular fluorescent bulb that gives off 6500K light--Home Depot Lowe's, etc. have bulbs like that.

It is important to have a basking bulb when the room temperatures are in the recommended temp range.
It is typically just a regular household lightbulb and is used so your cham has enough warmth to digest his food and fully absorb the nutrients in the food.

Personally, I'd let his eyes heal for a week without a UVB bulb

The calcium without D3 is super important, since that's the one for daily use
The multivitamin is only needed 2x a month, just like the calcium with D3

I am sorry to say that in re-reading your first post, I wee that you are using Mandevilla--which is toxic to chams.
The sap is also a skin irritant, according to this post:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/would-plant-safe-48352/
A list of safe plants is here:
http://flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp

Murphy's law with the plant, I suppose

 

[nightanole]

Yes long bulb 5.0. For adults that know how to regulate their uv then you can switch to a compact florescent, or a tube 10.0 if its a tall cage. You dont want a 10.0 in a 2ft tall baby cage. Babies generally dont know its too hot and get out of the basking spot, and they dont know when they get too much sun. Yours looks like about the size/age i start to introduce basking spots if its a screen cage.

 

[Ladynyce]

I'm always happy to help a caring cham owner

Sadly, I think most of us can relate to being given bad care advice and/or sold the wrong things
If I hadn't found this forum a few years ago, my chams would not have made it.

When I went into one local petstore and asked if they had calcium without D3 they looked at me like I had 3 heads and asked me why I would want that
Like this one:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-calcium-without-d3/

This is the multivitamin that I use--you need to be careful since they make the same vitamin withD3--the one to get is without D3

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/zoo-med-reptivite-without-d3-2oz/

Some folks prefer this one:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-calcium-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-herptivite-supplement/

If you feed a variety of well-fed insects to your cham, then the multivitamin supplement is just a bit of insurance.
The calcium is needed because many types of feeders. like crickets, have to be dusted with it to correct the calcium balance that they lack.

If he has been kept too hot, then he may really appreciate some extra mistings.

bad news, my cham has stop eating all together he hasnt ate for 2 weeks now, and he has fallen off a branch once that i have witnessed, i have seen him throw up once all the water that he had drank, he has thick saliva around his mouth and he acts as if he cant flick his tougne out to eat anything ... when he sees something move he is interested in it and walks to it and when he is right in front of it he just lies down and closes his eyes ... is there anyway i can get something in to him and can a lack of UVB light cause him to be like this???

 

[Lovereps]

I'm very sorry to say that unless your cham gets medication from a vet who knows how to treat chams, he won't survive.
He may already be too ill to recover but without vet treatment he most certainly will not.
I have no idea where you're located but someone may know of a good vet in your area if you ask.
You can also look for one here:http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/
And here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veterinarian-resources-67/

Why didn't he get any UVB?
Lack of UVB leads to severe health problems and eventually death.
Why is that?
It is because calcium is not absorbed by the body without UVB and calcium is essential to general health as well as to muscles (including the heart, tongue, etc.) and to bones.
More details here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

 

[sandrachameleon]

I think Mandevilla is poisonous.
sorry if this is a repeat - have not read full thread.