So the panther market has crashed?
- Thread starter ferretinmyshoes
- Start date
distortionz
Avid Member
My apologies I seem to have struck a nerve. Completely not my intention. This site is and has been the best source for information for a long time now. However, as times change so do the ways we get information. I'd be lying if I didn't say it isn't more convenient for a person to go on Facebook and ask a question in one of the cham groups rather than here. In minutes multiple people will respond with answers rather than waiting days here at times and never getting a response.
Also, those groups I listed are not breeders pages. Though most breeders that frequent the cham groups do have their own pages if you do want to go through EACH breeders page. The groups are started by keepers/breeders/chameleon enthusiasts. They are just as valuable a source of information as you will find here. In fact lots of the members here are members of the pages. It's not breeders saying anything to make a sale as you implied it's just another community like we have here. Personally if there is something I really want to know I'd rather use the search option here or Google search to find something here as this site is an archive of amazing resources. But if there is a question to ask and you need a prompt response I prefer the fb groups.
The convenience factor of it is what makes me use the groups more often.. The stuff already shows up in my Facebook feed and I stay in the loop that way.. I named lots of groups. however if you are interested I recommend just joining chameleon central u.s.a it is a great community. Not to discredit this site in any way. Without forums like this lots of the members of these groups wouldn't even be around.
So before you shoot it down without ever giving it a chance I recommend checking it out.. If you don't like it, you don't like it.. But it is way easier to post pictures, for sale ads, and ask questions.
It really is a shame that facebook is becoming the place for groups like chameleon hobbyists because you can't search for content, save any discussions, etc. and from what I've seen in these groups they are wrought with misinformation, 6 month experts, bickering, banning people who disagree, and people anthropomorphizing at near dangerous levels because it is at the expense of appropriate husbandry. The forums are an archive that can be referenced years after a topic was discussed and has a much broader base of experienced members. Some of these groups have actually started derailing the progress we've seen in standard husbandry practices made here on the forums. And that took years of very diligent effort by the senior and experienced members having to convince people the hard way - through time and gaining respect. I am not part of any of the groups on facebook because it is downright depressing to see trends going the wrong direction. I had to leave lest I lose my mind reading the garbage on some of them. It's the same with other animal hobbyist groups too. I just left another tortoise group for the same problems. I do not think that facebook is an appropriate avenue for this type of resource.
That aside, I even posted my guy on the facebook group mentioned the most in this thread and got no responses at all. And looking at the other sales ads there were quite a few good looking chams with no responses either. The market in general is crashed it seems except for a few choice large breeders, which is the case with any reptile species that has become commonplace. There are some breeders whose reputation protects them from the crash. I wonder if we'll see panthers rebound in the future since they're not becoming commonplace pets like beardies or leopards just because they are still more fragile pets. Perhaps they'll become harder to get again and it will rebound. Or perhaps they will be common in pet stores enough soon to go the way of the veiled.
That aside, I even posted my guy on the facebook group mentioned the most in this thread and got no responses at all. And looking at the other sales ads there were quite a few good looking chams with no responses either. The market in general is crashed it seems except for a few choice large breeders, which is the case with any reptile species that has become commonplace. There are some breeders whose reputation protects them from the crash. I wonder if we'll see panthers rebound in the future since they're not becoming commonplace pets like beardies or leopards just because they are still more fragile pets. Perhaps they'll become harder to get again and it will rebound. Or perhaps they will be common in pet stores enough soon to go the way of the veiled.
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Lathis
Chameleon Enthusiast
Excellent post.
Facebook in my opinion is a social experience centered around the current moment. That is its strength. The archive of information available here is so critical to the continued good husbandry and best practices and its not available anywhere else in the depth of knowledge here at CF.
Plus, I get tired of hearing about the Chameleons Gone Wild drama on Fauna... I seriously cannot and will not deal with middle school BS.
Facebook in my opinion is a social experience centered around the current moment. That is its strength. The archive of information available here is so critical to the continued good husbandry and best practices and its not available anywhere else in the depth of knowledge here at CF.
Plus, I get tired of hearing about the Chameleons Gone Wild drama on Fauna... I seriously cannot and will not deal with middle school BS.
deerharvester
Established Member
If you're looking for good keepers and experienced breeders, hands down this is absolutely the best place to find information! When people have a problem with their chams this is where they come. Great forum, and great people.
Scott
Scott
bakednowningz
New Member
Yup I second that on this place being great advice. Checking out the facebook pages now, they seem nice and all but when it comes to some serious advice. I've only ever had nice comments to help me. Knowledge seems to be extensive as well....
However that being said, I can see why people would be more drawn to facebook rather than CF, the whole forums is a bit old and to new breeders facebook is just familiar to them and easier to use being they already use it... Just so simple to add yourself to a group and start selling/trading/buying
However that being said, I can see why people would be more drawn to facebook rather than CF, the whole forums is a bit old and to new breeders facebook is just familiar to them and easier to use being they already use it... Just so simple to add yourself to a group and start selling/trading/buying
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is an excellent summary of why I won't use the "info" on facebook. The bickering and banning alone are enough to make me say it is not worth my scarce time. At least here we have solid Moderators.
laurie
Retired Moderator
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I totally agree. I am a member of a couple of these Facebook groups and some of the information they give out there is not what basic husbandry is all about. Some of the most knowledgeable chameleon keepers have been banned due to trying to give out correct information. I read some of ithe post sometimes and often refer people to the chameleon forums where they can get accurate information.
Rango3d
Avid Member
The biggest mistake was selling females cheaper then males. They should have been double the price. Most people wants a pretty male Panther. Now that they have 1, why not get a female now too! Their so cheap compared to males.
Now people are breeding these great blood line chameleons and the prices will get cheaper so they can sell the babies.
If someone has similar bloodlines as a long time keeper but sell for half the price why pay more. Regardless of who it is.
I think that's gonna be a growing trend now.
I love the forums here but I too am on Facebook.
Facebook is so appealing because no one has a status there. Other then the moderator everyone is on the same plain.
Here I feel it's all about status. Who you know and how many notches you have.
For example it's the same group of people that keep winning the photo contest.
This is just my 2 cents.
Now people are breeding these great blood line chameleons and the prices will get cheaper so they can sell the babies.
If someone has similar bloodlines as a long time keeper but sell for half the price why pay more. Regardless of who it is.
I think that's gonna be a growing trend now.
I love the forums here but I too am on Facebook.
Facebook is so appealing because no one has a status there. Other then the moderator everyone is on the same plain.
Here I feel it's all about status. Who you know and how many notches you have.
For example it's the same group of people that keep winning the photo contest.
This is just my 2 cents.
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think the reason the same people win over and over is they take great pictures. Sure some have lots of friends but it is about the quality of the picture.
Action Jackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
It seems like everyone who buys a chameleon what's to breed them these days. Heck, I've been guilty of that for 20 years. There are people I see on FB that are breeding Panthers as fast as they can and have 500-1000+ eggs. This is only going to drive prices down.
Facebook has it's good points and bad points. There are a lot of kooks and bad information but I don't go there for facts and health advice, that would be a mistake as everyone's an expert. The good part is it's easy to post pictures and get updates on people you follow. One thing I like most is being able to message some of the best Chameleon keepers easily and share information with them. I regularly speak to keepers all over the world working with the same species as I do. This have been a terrific resource for me.
The Kammers have a Huge following on FB and Instagram. They post great pictures with beautifully worded descriptions. It doesn't hurt that their chameleons are awesome and they are super nice people.
CF is still and hopefully always will be a great place to find the correct information about a wide range of chameleon related topics like care, housing, feeding and bugs to name a few. I just wish I could easily post pictures from my phone.
Facebook has it's good points and bad points. There are a lot of kooks and bad information but I don't go there for facts and health advice, that would be a mistake as everyone's an expert. The good part is it's easy to post pictures and get updates on people you follow. One thing I like most is being able to message some of the best Chameleon keepers easily and share information with them. I regularly speak to keepers all over the world working with the same species as I do. This have been a terrific resource for me.
The Kammers have a Huge following on FB and Instagram. They post great pictures with beautifully worded descriptions. It doesn't hurt that their chameleons are awesome and they are super nice people.
CF is still and hopefully always will be a great place to find the correct information about a wide range of chameleon related topics like care, housing, feeding and bugs to name a few. I just wish I could easily post pictures from my phone.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I am most probably always going to have 1/one or 2/two Panther Chameleons as a part of my collection regardless of how the market is for this species at whatever moment. The market now does seem saturated with Furcifer pardalis now much more than 3-5 years ago. These new lower prices could becoming from a saturation of the market. This could be coming from newly educated keepers are becoming established breeders (why the market is saturated) that were educated here at the Chameleon Forums. As well keepers working with Madagascar chameleon species have got many more chameleons to choose from from new Madagascar quotas. This allowing these Madagascar Chameleon Keepers more of a choice and selection to keep and breed. This less demand and more availability could contribute to the driving down the prices of Furcifer pardalis.
As for choosing between posting or the differences between the Chameleon Forums or a Facebook Group. The Chameleon Forums is much more of an establishment than the fast social media of Facebook Groups. They both have their pluses however the infrastructure of the information posted at the Chameleon Forums is going to go a lot farther than the fast information posted on a Facebook group. I offer the ideology of buying Fast Food (Facebook) or going to a sit down restaurant (Chameleon Forums) as regard to the quality of posts, even though Facebook is fast and convenient.
The concur with the statement that fast posting of pictures on Facebook would be a great upgrade if that could be done on the Chameleon Forums.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
As for choosing between posting or the differences between the Chameleon Forums or a Facebook Group. The Chameleon Forums is much more of an establishment than the fast social media of Facebook Groups. They both have their pluses however the infrastructure of the information posted at the Chameleon Forums is going to go a lot farther than the fast information posted on a Facebook group. I offer the ideology of buying Fast Food (Facebook) or going to a sit down restaurant (Chameleon Forums) as regard to the quality of posts, even though Facebook is fast and convenient.
The concur with the statement that fast posting of pictures on Facebook would be a great upgrade if that could be done on the Chameleon Forums.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
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Lathis
Chameleon Enthusiast
I do always try to judge photos purely by the quality of the photo, not who took it. I even try to avoid learning who the submitter is, although some chams here are very distinctive and some members have a very particular photo style. I'm definitely not a great photographer, so I generally don't even toss my hat in the ring.
Lathis
Chameleon Enthusiast
You can access CF on Tapatalk. I often call it "crapatalk" for reasons which will become obvious to you later... but there is an app available.
distortionz
Avid Member
I cosign this whole statement on the females being more expensive and the people having statuses here.. I feel like unless you have thousands of posts here or member since 2007 by your name you are discredited or looked down upon. I was a member of this site back in the beginning and after about a 6 year span of no longer keeping chameleons I got back into it and forgot my old username. I can't help but believe if it said member since August 2007 by my name everyone would love me haha..
Also I've seen people on here give just as bad of advice as on Facebook.. And then it is usually corrected by an experienced keeper same here as fb.. There is idiots and ignorant people every where the CF is not immune to that. Also I have NEVER seen anyone on Facebook be banned for giving good advice. The only time I see people be banned is for language/slandering others. They have good moderators at cham central that won't allow the bs and look to educate new keepers. I can't say as much for some of the other groups although I do still frequent them also.
But in the end I do still believe this is the best resource for chameleon information. However when it comes to sales and being involved in the community I tend to lean more towards Facebook.
Tonystandman
Member
This is the best topic on here in a while. I agree with thinking unless you have 3000 post your post mean nothing. I have said from day one this site is used by newbies looking for advice after they impulse buy a chameleon and old breeders. The fact that the for sale section can't be commented on alone is a mystery. It has been a great place to see the common mistakes and just bad luck of new keepers. I will be looking to add a few more chams to my collection and will be searching the FB groups. They are much easier to track and post like my other FB hobbies as going to dedicated hobby forum sites .
biffle
Avid Member
I personlly got out of ambilobes when I saw a guy post that he had 500 ambilobe eggs in his incubator and 3 gravid females. To me that's not cool. Just because you have a good looking male doesn't mean that you need to flood the market with your bloodline.
I believe that the "Ambilobe craze" of 1995 -2013 ended with the opening of madagascar. We are now back to the "import craze" of 2014 -?.
Other species and other locals is where its at right now. Apparently you aren't hip less you have a calumma project.
In my opnion, chameleon central USA is not good for the hobby. Its a place where crazies tell people that its ok to give your cham a bath for additional hydration or that its perfectly ok to feed your chams mice. Your post will be deleted or you will be shamed if you disagree with any of that crazy. Unfortunately noobs don't seem to get pointed back to CF so they take the crazy as fact and propogate it.
Chameleons gone wild is the red light distric of the chameleon world. Its only there for people to trash the crazy going on in central or to trash other breeders.
In my opnion, the "Chamaeleoniade discussion and classifieds" group is the only FB group that is actually there to promote responsible husbandry.
Jason
I believe that the "Ambilobe craze" of 1995 -2013 ended with the opening of madagascar. We are now back to the "import craze" of 2014 -?.
Other species and other locals is where its at right now. Apparently you aren't hip less you have a calumma project.
In my opnion, chameleon central USA is not good for the hobby. Its a place where crazies tell people that its ok to give your cham a bath for additional hydration or that its perfectly ok to feed your chams mice. Your post will be deleted or you will be shamed if you disagree with any of that crazy. Unfortunately noobs don't seem to get pointed back to CF so they take the crazy as fact and propogate it.
Chameleons gone wild is the red light distric of the chameleon world. Its only there for people to trash the crazy going on in central or to trash other breeders.
In my opnion, the "Chamaeleoniade discussion and classifieds" group is the only FB group that is actually there to promote responsible husbandry.
Jason
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