Some Thoughts On Breeding

[ChamFreak]

Funny, I noticed none of the "major breeders" posted in here. (if I missed you I am sorry)

But I have to wonder, lets see if anyone who posted years back did do it and see who didnt.

I ask cause, I was thinking to myself.... I bet 90% of them either never tried or was not successful at it....

Funny thing is, I too wanted to breed them and make a cozy profit... But they are right, you will more than likely not... I learned the hard way, I got a cross breed, I also had lost my female to breed with pure locale.

I worked a lot and traveled for work, I in the end kept my cham's and just cherished them. Then I was offered a new job out of state, I took it and decided to sell my loves cause I was affraid to move them 1,000 miles in a car with my dog and 120 degrees out side.

Now I am here, been here and I want to again try. I dont want to make any money, sure it would be nice! But this is my passion, I have owned 10 chameleons in my days, I fell in love at 12 years old when my best friend got a jackson! I used to beg to sleep over to just lay there and watch him! Now being 32, 20 years later, my passion grows!

I dont care what it costs... I just want to have the most amazing creature sharing my life with me.

Really think about what you're doing, all the questions in this thread are valid, your making the choice to do this, not the chameleon. So dont make ANY suffer!

 

[Kibu]

I have a Nosey be panther and we are about to Breed, except one problem, my female is non receptive

 

[Kibu]

I am twelve, and I love them, my chameleon's name is Kibulu Umeme, it means blue lightning in swahili

 

[Kibu]

I really hope to succeed thanks for your info!!!

 

[WingedWolfPsion]

I'm a small breeder hoping to become a larger one over time. I have started with ball pythons, and also produce a few small geckos. I absolutely love chameleons, and have never owned one.

I am doing all the research I can to make sure that I'm absolutely prepared before I do. I'm not quite ready yet.

First, we need more space, so it will be a couple of years for that. I've begun dubia colonies, and have 2 of them growing right now, hopefully to expand in the future. (I don't have anything that eats them...yet).

I can breed melanogaster with no issues, but my Hydei cultures don't seem to last quite so well over a few generations, so I need to work on that.

All of the lighting, space, and care for so many baby chameleons makes breeding any egg-laying species a BIG project, and I fully intend to be 110% set up and ready before I purchase my first pair.

I already have a nice Pro Products misting system that can handle everything (I use it for my geckos).

Currently, I'm aiming for carpet chameleons. So, I'm hear to learn all that I can about them, and chameleon care in general, before the time comes.

You have to:
A) Have money to make money. Setting all of this up is very expensive.
B) If you actually want to make a profit, you need to be a business person, and work out all of your numbers in advance.
C) Be smart about what you get, and where (for example, don't buy feeders--raise them yourself, because buying them is simply too expensive for animals that eat THIS much).
D) Don't expect a profit in your first few years!! It will take you years to cover your initial investment, much less make money in addition to it.

I doubt chameleons are a good 'hobby business' choice, due to how much labor they appear to require, and how fussy they are. So, that is something to keep very well in mind.

Nevertheless, if you DO set it all up correctly, sure--you can actually make some money. IF. Who you sell to is also going to influence your success--give people the tools they need to succeed, don't sell to kids, etc etc--be an ethical seller, or your reputation will die and your business with it. (If morality isn't enough to ensure that, then consider it from the standpoint of logic--reputation is money. I like to believe people would be ethical for its own sake, but we all know better--thus, the appeal to pocketbook for this).

 

[Kibu]

Well put!!!

 

[Odyssey350kc]

Is there a market?

I recently purchased a female panther ambilobe with the intention of soon getting a male and breeding the two. I have read this extremely informative thread and I am very happy I did, I still want to breed them, I have the time, room, space, money, and drive to do so.

I live in NH and the only real serious reptile distributor within a reasonable range is Zoo Creatures, or N.E.R.D (New England reptile distributors) I have visited them on a nearly weekly basis for years and there has never been a huge selection of chameleons. Especially not panthers. Why?

My sister and her boyfriend are opening their own pet shop http://www.prehistorix.co/ , and I thought a good way to contribute would be to give them some babies. (and I know that's probably over a year in the future if i do have a successful breeding.)

My Question is. Is there a demand for these chameleons?

The only thing that worries me about breeding them is the thought that I might not be able to sell all of the babies. I think between my sisters store, going to the local reptile show with her, (which usually only has 1 booth selling chameleons.) and selling them online would be enough. But is it?

What do you guys think? Any advise from anyone who has sold panthers on the side would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I'm glad I read this because I was seriously considering getting a female veiled to breed and sell/trade the babies to pet stores. Guess its not worth the time/money for what I'll get out of it. What a shame. I was really excited about doing this untill i read this thread

 

[Nate135]

I'm glad I read this because I was seriously considering getting a female veiled to breed and sell/trade the babies to pet stores. Guess its not worth the time/money for what I'll get out of it. What a shame. I was really excited about doing this untill i read this thread

Breeding is a true hobby and pleasure to a lot of people. U can still breed for the love of breeding, just let urself know that making money on it is not always the outcome. Just enjoying the success is what makes it worth it!

 

[FrankTheTank]

Well I was hoping to use the credits at pet stores to take care of my other animals. I am almost 25 with a child to be born any day now. Was hoping to cut down on some of our expenses. I would love to do it later in life when I have the resources to just plain enjoy it as i know that I would!

 

[Sherlinwed]

Thanks guys for the tips. Is there anyway that I can get a female for Thor without them breeding? Also, can you keep them in the same cage when they don't breed?

 

[SMCNARY]

Even for those of us who own only one chameleon and have no initial intention of aquiring more or starting a "breeding project", the idea cannot help but sneak into your head.
It is the ultimate achievement in the hobby, a mark of success that has the characteristic of personal triumph and it's very exciting to consider.
I think about it every day and at 20 years old I would have already leapt, but being 40 I have learned to consider these ventures more thoroughly before proceeding. Make no mistake, the level of my enthusiasm remains constant and is actually at some points difficult to control.
You are all familiar with my recent experience concerning a gravid female Jackson's chameleon. What will happen there remains still to be determined, but it has inspired me to document my thoughts and present them for your consideration.
So here are my thoughts concerning breeding:
I have friends who breed Persian Cats, I have friends who breed Wheaten Terriers and I myself once had a rather large breeding project of cockatiels and English Budgies. I have some knowledge and experience with what a project like this requires and my number one piece of advice is: dispel all delusions of fortune! If done properly, you will probably not make any money. This is an expensive hobby at best when practiced on the level that most of us are able to achieve, and you can hope to possibly recoup some of your costs but chances are that money will go right back to the chams.
Do you have the space required? It is the responsibility of a hobbyist who breeds to get their babies to a decent size and level of health and hardiness before considering sending them to new homes and some of these clutches can be quite large.
Do you have time? Consider the time you spend now and multiply it by ????
Who will take these babies? What if you can't find homes for all of them? Are you prepared to properly ship them? And most of all, how will you screen perspective buyers?
After you have invested money, time, space.....your heart, soul, blood, sweat and tears....who can possibly be worthy to assume care for your babies?
At the very least you will have to compose a care sheet and some documentation on each one.
You need to be prepared to answer questions later too, and provide new owners with your contact information.
Most of us already know all of this but I have found it therapeutic to compile these thoughts and questions and would love other keepers and breeders to share their thoughts and experiences as I continue to struggle with my over-zealous tendencies to dive in!

-Brad

For those of you thinking of breeding.... I am going to breed Chameleons!!! (again as i did it many years ago )
I think you should consider ALL of the above as it is alot more work and preporation then you might think!!! It is taking me months to set up breeding colonies of feeders,preparing tube's for the new hatchlings,raising cages for young chams,cages for juviniles,cages for sub adults and then cages for the any adults you keep or were not able to sell in time!!! Whatever you think it will cost just times it by 5 times and you might be close!!! I have spent the last 2 nights just setting up silk worms for breeding, This is after 2 months of trial and error as well as several hundred dollars learning to care for the silks so they don't DIE!!! Even with the practice and ALL the information I still lost several hundred to a virus that was beyond my control. If you are going to breed Chams IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY to have the conditions and preporation ready before hatching the first baby!!! Please you owe it to these fantastic creatures to be prepaired for the possibility of hatchlings!!! There are many succesful breeders on this forum. Talk to them and make sure you are ready for this fantastic adventure before you start!!! Just IMHO and for what it is worth!!! I will post pictures of my silk worm set up if you are interested!!!

 

[Chameleonshop]

Hey guys I'm new here. i only hear neggative things about breeding, but the only thought I have is if done correctly there MUST be a way in which you could profit from breeding these little guys

 

[Mike Fisher]

if done correctly there MUST be a way in which you could profit from breeding these little guys

There is.

The biggest problem I see is when a hobby breeder has success, they are ill prepared to run a business. Or they underestimate the amount of time it takes to juggle the life and death of feeders and chameleons, and how delicate that balance is. Many fail to automate the simplest things such as lighting and misting so if they need to leave the house for an unexpected emergency, the animals suffer or die.

These same people would probably fail at most any other business they tried. Love for a hobby does not necessarily translate to running a successful business. It always sounds like fun to turn your hobby into a business, but in reality it is just like a job. If you don't have the strength of will to work at home and stick to a scheduled routine for years at a time, you will not succeed.

 

[Kibu]

Yes my baby just hatched!!!!!!! My first clutch ever!!! I am sooo surprised that even one hatched.

hes breathing and doing good.

 

[junglefries]

how i started

I inherited a decent amount. what i did was pre-buy needed items. i bought reptisuns for every cage 3 years to the good. i bought reptibreeze cages @ sizes 16-16-20, 16-16-30, 18-18-36, & 24-24-48.i bought extra cages for replacement parts. extra cages for clucthes to grow into. extra cricket & superworm, etc cages in case some break. extra monsoon rs400, little drippers, misting bottles. extra vines, branches, and live plants growing to replace any that may die. i've spent a little over $10,000, however i feel i'm pretty prepared. having bred snakes while younger i have seen the ups and downs. the one difference for me, i kept with a hobby that i've had for 28yrs and don't really care if it works or not. it makes me & my autistic son VERY HAPPY to be around these animals. i have 1.3 veil, 2.2 blue bar, 1.1 nosy be, 2.2 jax. i also went around to every pet store to find buyers before first mating even occured. it wasn't what i planned. like everyone else i started with one or two, & now it is 14 total. i spend a good 2-4 hours every day doing work with them. my advice would be to preplan, prebuild, & presale. and have the same opinion as mine, if it works, YES!, if not you still have some awesome pets. BE A RESPONSIBLE PARENT & ONLY SPEND WHAT YOU YOUR KID WON'T MISS.

 

[Mike Fisher]

How to make a small fortune by breeding chameleons.......
Start with a large fortune.

 

[hpc1979]

From an outside business perspective...I work for a helicopter manufacture here in Philadelphia. The cost of our helicopters is ridiculous, but in the whole grand scheme of things, my company doesn't make that much of a profit building these helicopters. Where the company does make a profit though is in parts. There's probably a 500% mark up in the actual cost of a part, than there is in the selling price. If you can think about it from iphone perspective, Apple sells their iphones at a price barely above the cost it cost to make the device. If it's cost Apple $600 to make an iphone, they are only selling it for $610. To keep the cost down, Apple sells their phones as cheap as they can, because they know if their customer buys their iphones, the likeliness the customer will buy accessories for their phones is high. This is where Apple makes a huge party of their profits.

So to think about things from a breeding stand point, if you want to make money selling chameleons, you are going to need to invest in a complete business....selling everything that is related to raising a chameleon.

 

[Juliaf3]

Excellent info!

 

[CallumCresswell]

Wanting to breed a male Ambilobe

Hey guys,

I am posting regarding my two year old male Ambilobe Panther Chameleon, I don't have the money, space or experience in order to breed him. He is a incredibly friendly chameleon who has great coloration and never had a problem with his health. I feel it would be a shame for his genetics to not be passed on and for this reason I am asking if anyone local to me would be willing to pair him up with a nice female and incubate their eggs, all I ask is for one of the male offspring. I live in the UK, Northamptonshire and it would be greatly appreciated if someone got back to me, my email is [email protected]. Attached is a picture of my boy...

Thanks a lot!