Something isn't right.....

[buba636]

i have a male veiled as well he has a basking area of atleast 95 deg and the farthest point away from the heat and UVB and full spectrum is 75 i have a 38 gal mesh cage. Night temp never goes lower then 65 deg. water droper and chrickets/meal worms for feed. Flukes gutload and orange slices for crickets powder every other day. His legs and grip seem ok he changes colors fine. but refuses to use his hind legs on vines or greens only on flat surfaces. he constantly is moving on the bottom of the cage and climbs the side but not far. I've been giving him 1cc of flukes aid twice a day, because i've noticed he is not eating the crickets any more. i have not noticed any droppings thow. he does drink water, but i have not seen him eat a cricket in 2 days now.i put him in the large clup of vines i have in his cage but he "curls" his back legs foward insted of under him. the front legs grip normal but he ends up on the bottom i've seen him fall once but he got up and walked right away .he still is very active even thow on the bottom of the cage. someone please help.

 

[dodolah]

your cham got an advance case of Metabolic Bone Disorder.
see my response in red

i have a male veiled as well he has a basking area of atleast 95 deg and the farthest point away from the heat and UVB and full spectrum is 75 i have a 38 gal mesh cage.
What kind of UVB light you use? from the pic, i see no fluorescent UVB light there. a Reptisun 5.0 tube is the best choice. Although a reptisun 10.0 might be needed for this poor creature. This cannot wait and should be supplied immediately. Reptarium mesh cage blocks 50% of UVB light. If you live in the area where there are sunlights and warm temp (like in Florida or California), try to let him bask in the sun for good hours

Night temp never goes lower then 65 deg. water droper and chrickets/meal worms for feed. Flukes gutload and orange slices for crickets powder every other day.
night temp is fine. No infra red light at night unless the temp drops below 60F. Chameleon needs a 10 degree drop at night. Meal worms are not a good choice of staple feeders as they are not nutritious. Your gutload is also lacking. i recommend the one from cricketfood.com with a combination of fresh dandelions and collard greens. You mention nothing about supplements. So I am guessing you never dust your crickets? Your chameleon need extra supplement to balance out calcium phosphorus ratio and an boost of vitamin D3 to absorb calcium.
you need to dust your cricket with herptivite on MTH, repcal with D3 TF, and minerAll 0 WSat. What is it at the bottom enclosure? get rid of that substrate.

His legs and grip seem ok he changes colors fine. but refuses to use his hind legs on vines or greens only on flat surfaces. he constantly is moving on the bottom of the cage and climbs the side but not far. I've been giving him 1cc of flukes aid twice a day, because i've noticed he is not eating the crickets any more. i have not noticed any droppings thow. he does drink water, but i have not seen him eat a cricket in 2 days now.i put him in the large clup of vines i have in his cage but he "curls" his back legs foward insted of under him. the front legs grip normal but he ends up on the bottom i've seen him fall once but he got up and walked right away .he still is very active even thow on the bottom of the cage. someone please help

I beg to differ.. your cham's leg are not Ok at all. look at my gallery to see what a healthy chameleon's leg should be; In fact, Your cham is no longer able to support his body weight that's why he walk around at the bottom. his leg has couples of fracture points. Is it possible to bring him to the vet tomorrow? your cham needs treatment ASAP for calcium injection or it won't survive. This is very critical. I'm really sorry... but, this seems to be the case of poor husbandry... So, please correct your cage right away.. .

 

[buba636]

last pic is of the cricket food, a spray i recently bought and the medicine i've been giving him.

 

[joefarah]

Completely redo that chams whole setup.

Veild chameleons like big bright, well-lit, open, hot places. Deserts on the Arabian Penninsula. That dark little box is just not its natural habitat my friend. Get yourself a big-ass metal screened, nice and transparent cage with some lights that are really nice and bright like big flouresent tubes (get one of those 4 foot, twin bulb fixtures from home depot that are only 7 dollars) . Run one high CRI high lumen 4 foot house bulb ($2) alongside a Reptisun 5.0 or 8.0, then put a bright 75 watt basking light on a clamplamp a foot or more away from the enclosure shining in on some really perfect climbing perches. Maybe some good live plants.

Where do you live? Can you take him out in the sun a bit?

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Yes, he appears to have a bad case of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). I would strongly recommend you get him to a vet tomorrow (Tuesday). There are measures a vet can take to save your little guy. It not only affects the bones, but also the chams ability to eat and defecate, as it hinders the smooth muscles, such as heart muscle and intestinal walls. Not to scare you- but- it can lead to death. Yours appears to be an advanced case. Here is a link to a medical paper describing the disease:
http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/9008/wp-mbd.html

Also: here is a link to an excellent website to help you make the necessary adjustments to help your cham while the vet is treating him. http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

It's not clear in the photo what sort of UVB bulb you have. What is recommended is a LINEAR (not coil or compact) Reptisun 5.0. Lack of proper UVB can be a cause of MBD.

 

[dodolah]

last pic is of the cricket food, a spray i recently bought and the medicine i've been giving him.

there is no need for that spray.
Where do you get your chameleon and all these supplies?
Many of them are unnecessary and you are missing a lot of the vital supplies..

It seems like you have been misinformed by someone.
I apologize in advance in case my advice might sound harsh and insult you in any way.. I have no intention in judging you or belittling you in any way.
I'm worried about your cham... it is in a very critical condition.

 

[kinyonga]

Its important to get this chameleon to the vet ASAP so that testing may be done regarding its calcium levels and the calcium levels can be worked on. Usually calcium injections can be given over a few days/weeks until the blood calcium levels are increased enough that the chameleon can be given a shot of calcitonin. The calcitonin will draw the calcium back into the bone quite rapidly.

Then, while this is being done, you need to address the husbandry so that the levels will stay in balance.

Exposure to UVB allows the chameleon to produce vitamin D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its diet. The UVB can come either from a linear fluorescent light or from direct sunlight. Neither should pass through glass or plastic.

Since most insects we use as feeders have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. its important to dust the insects at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for this.

Any vitamin A in the diet/supplements that comes from a beta carotene source won't build up in the system like preformed can....but there is controversy about whether all species of chameleon can convert beta carotene or not, so a little preformed once in a while ensures that the chameleon gets some without it building up in the system. Excess vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

If your chameleon only gets UVB from artificial means, then you may need to give it a little phos.-free calcium/D3 supplement dusted on the insects twice a month. D3 from supplements can build up in the system too...so don't overdo it.

Phosphorus, calcium, D3 and vitamin A are the four main players in bone health and they need to be in balance. You need to look at the food you feed to your chameleon, the food you feed to the insects and the supplements when trying to attain a balance.

Appropriate temperatures also play a part because the chameleon needs warmth to digest its food.

Your chameleon's crooked bones won't become straight, but if you've caught it in time, it may live quite a long while still.

Good luck with it!

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Everything has been said.
I just want to add another request that you take this guy to the vet asap!
On the site previously referred to ( http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/ ) there is a link to find a reptilian vet in your area.

-Brad

 

[Kevin1873]

Completely redo that chams whole setup.

Veild chameleons like big bright, well-lit, open, hot places. Deserts on the Arabian Penninsula. That dark little box is just not its natural habitat my friend. Get yourself a big-ass metal screened, nice and transparent cage with some lights that are really nice and bright like big flouresent tubes (get one of those 4 foot, twin bulb fixtures from home depot that are only 7 dollars) . Run one high CRI high lumen 4 foot house bulb ($2) alongside a Reptisun 5.0 or 8.0, then put a bright 75 watt basking light on a clamplamp a foot or more away from the enclosure shining in on some really perfect climbing perches. Maybe some good live plants.

Where do you live? Can you take him out in the sun a bit?

So are you saying the cages that reptilesupply.com sale are no good for housing Chameleon's? I recently ordered one of these, which is the same encloser that Buba636 is using, so It would be good to know so I can cancel the order.

Kevin.

 

[dodolah]

So are you saying the cages that reptilesupply.com sale are no good for housing Chameleon's? I recently ordered one of these, which is the same encloser that Buba636 is using, so It would be good to know so I can cancel the order.

Kevin.

Actually, a reptarium is sufficient for your chameleon as long as you know their disadvantages.
1. The visibility is quite poor compared to the standard aluminum cage
2. I heard that the mesh blocks 50% of the UVB light
3. The zipper can be a PITA
4. and I also heard some people in this forum report that the cricket can chew their way out of this mesh..

other than that, it is perfectly ok. I've seen people raised a chameleon successfully using this enclosure.

 

[Kevin1873]

Actually, a reptarium is sufficient for your chameleon as long as you know their disadvantages.
1. The visibility is quite poor compared to the standard aluminum cage
2. I heard that the mesh blocks 50% of the UVB light
3. The zipper can be a PITA
4. and I also heard some people in this forum report that the cricket can chew their way out of this mesh..

other than that, it is perfectly ok. I've seen people raised a chameleon successfully using this enclosure.

Yeah I've heard that the zippers are not much fun and I have the worst luck when it comes to zippers so eventually I'll prob get a good aluminum cage. I'm still in the process of getting all the equipment and materials together and still want to do a bit more research as this will be my first Cham so I'm not in any rush. I've actually learned A LOT spending everyday on the forums for over a week now and reading all the URL's everyone posts as well as Brads how-to website guide. Btw thx for that Brad, it's been a big help. Maybe if I get a metal cover to go over the UVB light that will help more of the rays to go into the cage instead somewhere it's not going to benefit the Chameleon? Thanks for the info Dodolah, I appreciate it.

Kevin.

 

[dodolah]

Yeah I've heard that the zippers are not much fun and I have the worst luck when it comes to zippers so eventually I'll prob get a good aluminum cage. I'm still in the process of getting all the equipment and materials together and still want to do a bit more research as this will be my first Cham so I'm not in any rush. I've actually learned A LOT spending everyday on the forums for over a week now and reading all the URL's everyone posts as well as Brads how-to website guide. Btw thx for that Brad, it's been a big help. Maybe if I get a metal cover to go over the UVB light that will help more of the rays to go into the cage instead somewhere it's not going to benefit the Chameleon? Thanks for the info Dodolah, I appreciate it.

Kevin.

you mean the reflector?
Yes.. that'll work.

 

[buba636]

i'm taking Duece to the vet now. I'm not trying to justify myself but until about 3 days ago he was in a 10 gal aquarium with just the 75W UVB and 100W full spec. I noticed him on the bottom of the aquarium after cleaning it, so i got concerned it wasn't big enough for him. i got the 38 gal mesh tank, after seeing one of my buddies cage (he has a 1 year old female veiled). i'm going to go to home deopt and get a piece of plexi or a tight metal mesh to put on the top and cut out the "screening" ontop. he are pics of my lights, i do have the spiral UVB wich i just learned is not good so i'll also be getting a floresnt bulb at home depot.


the one pic is taken with the door open and no other lights on in the room or rooms near it, just to show the amount of light coming in the cage. the pics from last night i used flash. i hope he pulls threw i haven't even had him for 2 months.

 

[bg77]

Good Luck at the Vet, hope he makes it. Yeah, definately get a tube UVB bulb.

 

[Julirs]

i'm taking Duece to the vet now. I'm not trying to justify myself but until about 3 days ago he was in a 10 gal aquarium with just the 75W UVB and 100W full spec. I noticed him on the bottom of the aquarium after cleaning it, so i got concerned it wasn't big enough for him. i got the 38 gal mesh tank, after seeing one of my buddies cage (he has a 1 year old female veiled). i'm going to go to home deopt and get a piece of plexi or a tight metal mesh to put on the top and cut out the "screening" ontop. he are pics of my lights, i do have the spiral UVB wich i just learned is not good so i'll also be getting a floresnt bulb at home depot.


the one pic is taken with the door open and no other lights on in the room or rooms near it, just to show the amount of light coming in the cage. the pics from last night i used flash. i hope he pulls threw i haven't even had him for 2 months.

I am suprised he is still alive-he has to have been cooking with all of that heat inside a 10 gallon tank with that much light on it. I do not understand the part about cutting out the screening on top and putting plexiglass-UVB WILL NOT GO THROUGH PLASTIC OR GLASS, but it will go through the mesh. Reptariums really can work out great-I am still using them. Get a Reptisun 10.0-if your guy makes it he will need it, and prop it off the mesh 2-3". Set a clamp lamp on top with a 60W or 75W bulb to get the right basking temps and they work great.
Then get your supplements in order:
$7.99 each $7.99
RepCal ultra fine calcium with D3
$4.99 each $4.99
Rep Cal Calcium WITHOUT D3
$4.99 each $4.99
RepCal Herptivite supplement
$8.99 each $8.99
Good luck-I hope he makes it.

 

[mika]

One thing also I would like to add is to get a thermometer with a probe & place it on his basking spot.

If you want to buy it online, there's one that's $6.99.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ats/-/zoo-med-digital-thermometer-with-probe/

I use a 75 watt bulb on my screen cage. It's 36 Height, 18 inches in Lenght, 17 inches in Diameter. The fixture which holds the bulb is attached 3 inches from the screen. The branch which is the basking spot is 3 inches from the screen inside.

The temp is usually around 80-84 F but goes high as 88F so I don't know how you were able to use 75F to 100F in a 10 gal tank.

When I didn't have a thermometer (only for couple of days), I would guess the temps and when I read the basking spot with a thermometer is showed 110F .

Short story, you'll be able to adjust temps in your enclosure if you have thermometers ( if you don't already have one) and they're pretty cheap..

Great investment.

 

[joefarah]

So are you saying the cages that reptilesupply.com sale are no good for housing Chameleon's? I recently ordered one of these, which is the same encloser that Buba636 is using, so It would be good to know so I can cancel the order.

Kevin.

They might be ok for Jacksons or other chams, but honestly I think veilds need it bright. I believe there is a pyschological benefit to a more open, well-lit enclosure for veilds. Thats just my opinion.

I've tried those enclosures and I think they suck.

 

[dodolah]

Yeah I've heard that the zippers are not much fun and I have the worst luck when it comes to zippers so eventually I'll prob get a good aluminum cage. I'm still in the process of getting all the equipment and materials together and still want to do a bit more research as this will be my first Cham so I'm not in any rush. I've actually learned A LOT spending everyday on the forums for over a week now and reading all the URL's everyone posts as well as Brads how-to website guide. Btw thx for that Brad, it's been a big help. Maybe if I get a metal cover to go over the UVB light that will help more of the rays to go into the cage instead somewhere it's not going to benefit the Chameleon? Thanks for the info Dodolah, I appreciate it.

Kevin.

if you are in no rush, and if you have enough resources, i suggest you go with the aluminum cages instead. IMHO, they are much much better.

 

[dodolah]

if possible, i would suggest you get REPTI SUN 5.0 fluorescent Tube instead of ordinary tube from home depot.
and since you are using reptarium, i agree with julirs.
You might benefit more using 10.0

i'm taking Duece to the vet now. I'm not trying to justify myself but until about 3 days ago he was in a 10 gal aquarium with just the 75W UVB and 100W full spec. I noticed him on the bottom of the aquarium after cleaning it, so i got concerned it wasn't big enough for him. i got the 38 gal mesh tank, after seeing one of my buddies cage (he has a 1 year old female veiled). i'm going to go to home deopt and get a piece of plexi or a tight metal mesh to put on the top and cut out the "screening" ontop. he are pics of my lights, i do have the spiral UVB wich i just learned is not good so i'll also be getting a floresnt bulb at home depot.


the one pic is taken with the door open and no other lights on in the room or rooms near it, just to show the amount of light coming in the cage. the pics from last night i used flash. i hope he pulls threw i haven't even had him for 2 months.

 

[buba636]

i just got back from the vet. he said it doesn't look good, duece is very young and is far into MBD. he said i most likely bought him with it in the early stages and i was to new to understand it. he said he will call me tomorrow to keep me updated. now i'm reconstructing the cage new UVB and spot light for basking. i live in upsate NY there is little to no sunlight in the winter and i'm afraid to put him near a window with below freezing temps outside. i hope he pulls threw i just started to be able to handle him and "bond". he did not like my girlfriend much. Question- i have carpet on the bottom what should i use i had reptile mulch in the aquarium and it attracted ants. when i went to clean his cage there were ants in the bag of mulch, thank god i have his things in a shelf in another room.