Something to Think About

Brad Ramsey

Brad Ramsey

Retired Moderator
It occurs to me that I haven't expressed these thoughts in awhile, and (in my opinion) they bear repeating.
The subject has been tweaked in my mind a bit as well so here's a revised version:rolleyes::

Concerning general husbandry and all the specific ins and outs of keeping these animals

Some fantastic basic practices have been established over the years. As people have worked to perfect the keeping of chameleons. A list of "best success perimeters" (ie: minimum enclosure dimensions, acceptable feeders, supplementing schedules etc.) can be regurgitated by almost anyone who has spent any time on the forums or in any similar situation.

My thoughts concern "absolute thinking" which is (IMO) somewhat dangerous.
The dogma of this hobby puts us in danger of being finished. In other words if the way we currently do things is the "only, end all, no exceptions" way then we have nothing else to learn. We are saying, then, that we know it all.

My challenge every day is to ask myself why I am doing everything I am doing for these animals. Question what I am doing and review the answers in my mind.
I have started a journal, logging every simple little thing ... poop, how much food eaten, how many times misted, temps etc ...
It has become helpful in looking back to see: when was the last time he ate and how much? or is the ambient temp consistant? It also gives me a solid place to launch off of if I want to make adjustments.

Instead of just doing things because I'm supposed to ... I am challenging myself to really learn why and do some research when I don't know the answer.
I also think observation and intuition are key.
Controlled adjustments to husbandry are how things get discovered or perfected.

I remain committed to the basic practices and strongly suggest that this be the advice we continue to present to new keepers ... but I also think we should continually evaluate and record what's happening and share this information from time to time.

-Brad
 
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Brad,

I think you should start a professional chameleon sitting business so that all of us may take a vacation!!!!!!

I would trust all my precious babies in your care!!!!
 
Words of wisdom. And yeah i would let you baby sit my chams too.
Interested in reading the blogs.
 
Brad, While I agree with your thinking outside of the box theory, and developing new ways to provide care, however there is something to be said for Tried, Tested, and True Methods. It's balance between tghe two methods, doing one wiht the other in mind, that will pay off.
 
If I had more chameleons I would try changing some variables.
I would keep an unchanged(control/your normal) chameleon with the "proper" husbandry.
Best of luck to you Brad.

On the babysitting note: Chameleonham Palace could be the name.
 
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Brad, do you have a real job? JK

I like your thought process on this. One of the best things about this site is learning from others. I know it was a great generalization when you said "In other words if the way we currently do things is the "only, end all, no exceptions" way then we have nothing else to learn. We are saying, then, that we know it all." I don't think we're in danger of becoming some sort of chameleon owner Borg with an "assimilate or your cham will die" attitude.

Obviously, there are some fundamentals that need to be adhered to. But people do things a little differently and it's always interesting to see how and why. For instance Kiyonga (sorry if it's misspelled, I didn't want to go look it up) gives mineral supplements only a couple times a month. We also have someone who swears the CF bulbs make his chams healthier and more colorful, while a large number of folks swear they're dangerous due to some UK study. Then we have Old Cham Keeper who's been raising chams for 30 years that still comes on here for advice. Also, there's members from all over the world on here. What works for someone in San Diego, may not be the best if you live in Boston or London.

That said, I think your study will be very interesting and I look forward to your findings.
 
Will Hayward said:
Brad, While I agree with your thinking outside of the box theory, and developing new ways to provide care, however there is something to be said for Tried, Tested, and True Methods. It's balance between tghe two methods, doing one wiht the other in mind, that will pay off.
Click to expand...

That's exactly right!
If I wasn't clear about that ... thank you Will for clarifying.

-Brad
 
AFH said:
Brad, do you have a real job? JK

I like your thought process on this. One of the best things about this site is learning from others. I know it was a great generalization when you said "In other words if the way we currently do things is the "only, end all, no exceptions" way then we have nothing else to learn. We are saying, then, that we know it all." I don't think we're in danger of becoming some sort of chameleon owner Borg with an "assimilate or your cham will die" attitude.

Obviously, there are some fundamentals that need to be adhered to. But people do things a little differently and it's always interesting to see how and why. For instance Kiyonga (sorry if it's misspelled, I didn't want to go look it up) gives mineral supplements only a couple times a month. We also have someone who swears the CF bulbs make his chams healthier and more colorful, while a large number of folks swear they're dangerous due to some UK study. Then we have Old Cham Keeper who's been raising chams for 30 years that still comes on here for advice. Also, there's members from all over the world on here. What works for someone in San Diego, may not be the best if you live in Boston or London.

That said, I think your study will be very interesting and I look forward to your findings.
Click to expand...

This is what's exciting about the forums. We have such a great opportunity here to learn about the successes of keepers around the world.
I am so happy you all understand what I was trying to say and where I would like this thread to go!:)

-Brad
 
Listen to me, listen to me, I'm one of those people from Overseas...lol

We do some things differently to you guys albeit only slightly, although I do like to go on the US forums because you guys "usually" have the cutting edge equipment and with your massive population you have more people trying different methods and therefore coming to a tried & trusted method quicker than what i experience in my country.
In my marine fish & coral keeping hobby, I have most things that people in my country didn't even know about, simply due to the fact of joining a US based forum and getting ideas from people just like you guys!
I guess, in closing, Brad great idea, people let's discuss our "different from the norm" approaches in husbandry techniques and to everyone here, THANKS FOR HELPING ME OUT in my short 6 months on being a member here...i've learnt heaps and most of it from you all! Cheers...

Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy, hey....now p*ss off you yanks, i've got work to do! :p lol
Only Joking of course....
Cheers
Scott.
 
I agree!!! We actually had a similar debate on another forum over screened cages vs glass aquariums, where glass was used to raise chams through their entire life.
We concluded that in a colder temperature, like Europe, where there is an overall lower humidity, almost dry even, aquariums can be used because they hold humidity better.
However, in lets say Cali, where the overall humidity can be hotter due to higher temps, mold forms and bacteria grows. Also...Screened enlclosure in Europe may lose humidty and heat faster. and a place like Florida is similar to Cali in heat but not humidity.
We all see sites and people that say NO SCREEN but we are only speaking from our own local, often American experiences. I think by opening this forum to the world, which it is already, we will learn tons more info on how to care for all these animals with all different variables being tested and changed.
 
I agree that you should read everything out there, and read it again, matching what you read about from one source with another and another. Once you learn what the general husbandry requirements are, you have to begin to find out what works for you, and for your individual cham. If you had told me that I would be feeding my guy silkworms back in July, I would have thought you were nuts. But it is what works for Butter.

I read, I try out different things, and work on what works and what doesn't.

Brad, you are quite right. Our husbandry of these exotic animals must be dynamic and proactive to protect and care for these magnificent creatures.
 
I'm actually experimenting already! I'm keeping a Parson's in a shoebox in my bathroom. Whenever I find a pesky roach running around the house I soak it with some Raid and then feed it to the cham.

I have high hopes for this setup and I'll be sure to let you guys know how it works out.
 
Chamero said:
I agree!!! We actually had a similar debate on another forum over screened cages vs glass aquariums, where glass was used to raise chams through their entire life.
We concluded that in a colder temperature, like Europe, where there is an overall lower humidity, almost dry even, aquariums can be used because they hold humidity better.
However, in lets say Cali, where the overall humidity can be hotter due to higher temps, mold forms and bacteria grows. Also...Screened enlclosure in Europe may lose humidty and heat faster. and a place like Florida is similar to Cali in heat but not humidity.
We all see sites and people that say NO SCREEN but we are only speaking from our own local, often American experiences. I think by opening this forum to the world, which it is already, we will learn tons more info on how to care for all these animals with all different variables being tested and changed.
Click to expand...

Florida is the same as Cali I'm sure. It may even be more humid. In the summer time you can gurantee the humidity will be atleast 80%. My ambient humidity this winter inside of my house was 40%.
Speak of out of the ordinary or not the "proper" way to give you chameleon proper husbandry.
I use Mercury Vapor Bulbs for my chameleons. I have used them since day one even when they were 3 months old.
If you would like to see the outcome of 13 months of Mercury Vapor UVB check out my gallery.
I have nothing bad to say about MVB's because I have been very successful with them.
You do need to be a little more careful, but I have found them extremly favorable.
 
Justin Carl said:
Florida is the same as Cali I'm sure. It may even be more humid. In the summer time you can gurantee the humidity will be atleast 80%. My ambient humidity this winter inside of my house was 40%.
Speak of out of the ordinary or not the "proper" way to give you chameleon proper husbandry.
I use Mercury Vapor Bulbs for my chameleons. I have used them since day one even when they were 3 months old.
If you would like to see the outcome of 13 months of Mercury Vapor UVB check out my gallery.
I have nothing bad to say about MVB's because I have been very successful with them.
You do need to be a little more careful, but I have found them extremly favorable.
Click to expand...


:eek::eek: 13 months outcome with a MVB, has turned your cham into a quad bike....I might try that, i've always wanted one!
cheers
Scott
 
desultadox said:
I'm actually experimenting already! I'm keeping a Parson's in a shoebox in my bathroom. Whenever I find a pesky roach running around the house I soak it with some Raid and then feed it to the cham.

I have high hopes for this setup and I'll be sure to let you guys know how it works out.
Click to expand...

Kinda callous joke but I'll take it as a joke.



Brad, you bring up solid threads all the time. I still remember when finding another person who kept chameleons was a big deal. We'd chat and hopefully share information. Having a whole forum full of people is just great. While we use the methods that have been learned through hard lessons (like desultadox did in feeding his Parson a raid soaked roach) we should not stop in continuing to understand these animals and find better ways to care for them while in our care. Despite 30+ years of keeping herps, I find I come across newer and better ways every year. While equipment and supplements have come a long way so has our understanding of the animals themselves. The combination of these areas allows us to truly care for our "odd" pets.
 
I try different things with each species that I keep until I reach a point where they live long lives, reproduce and this continues in future generations...then I leave things alone generally. I'm not assuming at that point that I have everything perfect...and it doesn't mean that I won't ever change things either....I will just do it cautiously.

There is not just one way that works IMHO when it comes to keeping chameleons. There are factors that come into play that "allow" for various methods to work in various situations. As AHF said..."there are some fundamentals that need to be adhered to." AFH said it well!

I have kept chameleons in glass cages with screen lids for their whole lives....that was the main way it was done when I started keeping them. I have kept them in wooden cages with screen lids and glass doors. I have kept them in glass cages with screen lids and doors. If done "properly" they all can work. Be aware that I live in Canada where its not hot most of the year and not often humid in the house.

Another interesting topic Brad!
 
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