Spiny orb weaver spider - feeding my Jackson

[paulkaranik]

Last week I put my chameleon outside and he whacked one of these spiders off the web. Nothing bad happened so I found another one and hand fed it to him a few weeks later. He loved it so much I have never seen him so happy. His colors seemed to instantly show appreciation to the new morsel. I think the spider was softer than it looked. I am thinking about including this in his diet maybe twice a month. Anyone care to share your experiences with this spider or any spider in general ?

 

[trickedoutbiker]

I'm no expert, but I've heard that lots of spiders can be a bit toxic due to the poisons a lot of them keep inside their bodies to stun insects before wrapping them.

I've not read enough about it to develop my own opinion though.... Definitely looks like a super neat spider though. I've never seen one of those before.

 

[KapitalJ]

I, myself would try to stay away from feeding spiders as @trickedoutbiker had said.

This brings up a question I have always had...
I was always wondering if my cham was outside, is it ok for him to be eating random bugs?

 

[trickedoutbiker]

if my cham was outside, is it ok for him to be eating random bugs

As long as the bugs have never been exposed to pesticides then it will probably be okay.

BUT.....

With wild caught insects, there is always that small chance of the chameleon getting parasites from the insects. In reality, a chameleon can get parasites even from captive-bred insects, but the chances are far greater when using wild caught insects because wild bugs eat sooooo many different things and live in an uncontrolled environment.

On the flip side of things though, wild caught insects pose a great nutritional benefit to the chameleon BECAUSE they eat sooooo many different things - and since it's wild caught, it's about the most natural insect you can get.

BUT.....

Since wild-caught insects DO eat soooo many different things, you can never be sure what they ate. Maybe it was feasting on a dead rotting carcass yesterday, and that certainly would not be good for the cham.

So I mean, there are pros, and there are cons. With wild caught insects there are just so many varieties - be sure that whatever he eats isn't poisonous. Try to monitor his intake the best that you can if you are just letting him chill outside. If he nabs up something random then I guess it happens, and that is a risk you are just gonna have to take.

As for mine, when I want to take him out to get some real sun, I take out a fake tree with me, and place him in that. I do this because real trees outside can have insects walking around on them that you don't know about. I never take my eye off the fake tree or leave him by himself while he is outside, and I've never seen him nab a random insect (yet ). I also have his old cage that I'm going to turn into an outside cage that I can place on my balcony for days I want to leave him outside longer than an hour or so, but have things to do. It'll be easier to place him in a screen cage on the balcony and go about my business while he soaks up some rays because I won't have to worry about watching him, and stray insects won't be able to get into the cage where he can nab them.

 

[GrimCamel]

I'm no expert, but I've heard that lots of spiders can be a bit toxic due to the poisons a lot of them keep inside their bodies to stun insects before wrapping them.

Im with Trickedoutbiker. Spiders are toxic and should'nt be used as feeders. Sad fact because I find so many neat and big spiders outside but I wouldnt risk it

 

[KapitalJ]

Thanks @trickedoutbiker
I wont be catching wild insects to feed him, was more of a "what if" he just happens to nab one. He will be in an outdoor enclosure, but bugs will be able to enter.

 

[little leaf]

I don't want to tell you to feed spiders however I keep my chameleons outside All Summer Long they eat so many wild bugs spiders flies bees the only thing I do is wait until after lightning bugs season to open the cages up so bugs can get in it's true that you do have a bigger chance of getting parasites but I test all my chameleons about every 3 or 4 months and there is risk that a toxic bug may find its way in I don't worry about the pesticide thing for two reasons I am out in the middle of nowhere and if a bug had pesticides on it it would be dying or dead and I really do not see a huge increase and the benefits of wild-caught bugs to me far outweigh the risk of parasite my chameleons are outside in the summer eating everything that gets in there they absolutely glow ! when winter comes and everyone has to come back in and revert back to the boring crickets and roaches and things like that their colors go from bright to drab. I still say there's a small risk feeding wild caught but to me the benefits outweigh the risk and I have never had a chameleon die from eating anything as a matter of fact the only chameleon I ever lost due to a bug and he was in a screened enclosure was a cicada wasp landed on top of the screen and stung the chameleon and it killed him

 

[trickedoutbiker]

I wont be catching wild insects to feed him, was more of a "what if" he just happens to nab one. He will be in an outdoor enclosure, but bugs will be able to enter.

A thing you COULD do if you want so add some spice to their diet is, catch a few wild caught insects and figure out how to breed them. Only start with a couple and breed them. Get the newborn insects, grow them, and use those as feeders because you would be controlling the diet of them instead of worrying about what they ate in the wild. Some people who do this, will get wild insects, breed them, grow the hatchlings, breed THOSE, and then grow the NEXT hatchlings up, and then feed those - feeding the 3rd generation instead of the 2nd generation. Some people do it that way to make absolutely sure that nothing bad is in the insects. I personally think that is a little overkill, and feeding off a 2nd generation would be okay as long as they are raised right and on a good gutload.

I still say there's a small risk feeding wild caught but to me the benefits outweigh the risk

For many people who use wild caught feeders, they say the same thing - that the benefits far outweigh the risks. As long as they are 100% certainly pesticide free, I would have to totally agree.

BUT....

For the sake of this particular thread being about spiders and all, I would personally not follow that rule and just avoid the spiders because they are known to carry toxins, so why risk that? Use other insects sure, but you may or may not be taking a huge risk on spiders. There are lots of other insects out there in this world to pick from.... Just my 2 cents.

 

[KapitalJ]

my insect breeding area is already overrun with crickets, silks and supers.. but I will probably try to get me some grasshoppers..

 

[trickedoutbiker]

but I will probably try to get me some grasshoppers..

I was actually going to hunt for some this summer as well and give it a go at trying to breed them. They are real jumpy - surely will attract my chameleon, no doubt. Gonna have to start with wild caught ones though as it is illegal to ship them in the U.S.

 

[little leaf]

I do pretty much agree with you however the way my cages are set up outside I don't have a choice and cannot stop spiders my cages are approximately 10 foot by 8 foot by 7 Foot and are covered mostly in one quarter inch hardware cloth and we also don't really have any venomous spiders like out west or at least for you have the black widows and things like that I would say our most dangerous spider would have to be the daddy long leg and they love those another thing to know is I did pretty much research as many bugs as I could in our area in the only real toxic one we have is the lightning bug but as stated it's a personal choice each person makes and it does involve a little bit of a risk to the chameleon I will always feed wild most of my chameleons are wild-caught rescues from shows so they are already used to eating Wild Things and you do have a good point about raising your own safe wild bugs, I breed isopod, praying mantis, snails, moth and I harvest mosquito larvae for all the babies and praying mantis

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Truthfully I don't worry about it. If any of mine eat a WC bug, so be it. They eat whatever they can eat in the wild. And while this may have an effect on the average WCs lifespan, they still do it and all live just fine. So one bug here and there on there own doings, isn't a big deal. Biggest reason being not to collect them and freed the WC bugs off are pesticides and parasites. It's not a huge risk you're running, but, why take it and end up with a vet bill you know? And even breeding your own doesn't guarantee anything about them being pest free.

And as @little leaf mentioned, he houses his outdoors. Along with many other members here. Meaning if a bug gets in the enclosure, then oh well. It's nothing to majorly to worry about.

I'm not saying to go get a jar full of spiders tho But if he's outside and snatches one up, don't sweat it. Just don't intentionally give him a concentrated amount of them is what I'm saying. Besides spiders are NASTY. 8 legged spawn of satan.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

I do pretty much agree with you however the way my cages are set up outside I don't have a choice and cannot stop spiders my cages are approximately 10 foot by 8 foot by 7 Foot and are covered mostly in one quarter inch hardware cloth and we also don't really have any venomous spiders like out west or at least for you have the black widows and things like that I would say our most dangerous spider would have to be the daddy long leg and they love those another thing to know is I did pretty much research as many bugs as I could in our area in the only real toxic one we have is the lightning bug but as stated it's a personal choice each person makes and it does involve a little bit of a risk to the chameleon I will always feed wild most of my chameleons are wild-caught rescues from shows so they are already used to eating Wild Things and you do have a good point about raising your own safe wild bugs, I breed isopod, praying mantis, snails, moth and I harvest mosquito larvae for all the babies and praying mantis

You're chams will be sleeping by the time lightning bugs are out cruising. I think? Lol

 

[trickedoutbiker]

I would say our most dangerous spider would have to be the daddy long leg

Contrary to popular belief, the "Daddy Long Legs" is not really a spider. Most Americans who spend time outdoors use the term "Daddy Long Legs" for one particular species of long-legged Harvestmen, scientific name Metaphalangium albounilineatum, which are ground-dwelling outdoor creatures. Harvestmen are arachnids, but they are not spiders - in the same way that butterflies are insects, but they are not beetles. Harvestmen have one body section (spiders have two), two eyes on a little bump (most spiders have eight), a segmented abdomen (unsegmented in spiders), no silk, no venom, a totally different respiratory system, and many other differences; not all have long legs either.

Biggest reason being not to collect them and freed the WC bugs off are pesticides and parasites. It's not a huge risk you're running, but, why take it and end up with a vet bill you know? And even breeding your own doesn't guarantee anything about them being pest free.

True that. You can't ever GUARANTEE that an insect will be parasite free - it's just seen more in wild caught insects than in captive bred.

And as @little leaf mentioned, he houses his outdoors. Along with many other members here. Meaning if a bug gets in the enclosure, then oh well. It's nothing to majorly to worry about.

I'm not saying to go get a jar full of spiders tho But if he's outside and snatches one up, don't sweat it. Just don't intentionally give him a concentrated amount of them is what I'm saying. Besides spiders are NASTY. 8 legged spawn of satan.

Lol - spawns of Satan. hahaha. That they are.

 

[little leaf]

I know they're asleep when the lightning bugs are out it's in the morning the lightning bugs settle in the cages and then when the chameleons are up moving around they disturb them lightning bugs are extremely toxic to chameleons
And yes I know Daddy long legs aren't spiders but that's what everyone would call them LOL actually think they're cute and enjoy seeing them all over the place and kind of feel bad when one gets eaten

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

I know they're asleep when the lightning bugs are out it's in the morning the lightning bugs settle in the cages and then when the chameleons are up moving around they disturb them lightning bugs are extremely toxic to chameleons
And yes I know Daddy long legs aren't spiders but that's what everyone would call them LOL actually think they're cute and enjoy seeing them all over the place and kind of feel bad when one gets eaten

That's true! I think it's the pigment that glows that is toxic.

I don't feel bad for an eaten spider...ever. lol

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

Contrary to popular belief, the "Daddy Long Legs" is not really a spider. Most Americans who spend time outdoors use the term "Daddy Long Legs" for one particular species of long-legged Harvestmen, scientific name Metaphalangium albounilineatum, which are ground-dwelling outdoor creatures. Harvestmen are arachnids, but they are not spiders - in the same way that butterflies are insects, but they are not beetles. Harvestmen have one body section (spiders have two), two eyes on a little bump (most spiders have eight), a segmented abdomen (unsegmented in spiders), no silk, no venom, a totally different respiratory system, and many other differences; not all have long legs either.



True that. You can't ever GUARANTEE that an insect will be parasite free - it's just seen more in wild caught insects than in captive bred.



Lol - spawns of Satan. hahaha. That they are.

They're all out to crawl inside your ear while you sleep!

 

[Carlton]

FWIW, I feed small spiders. If I remember right ALL spiders have a venomous bite, but the small species native to where most of us live in the US have don't have strong venom. I wouldn't feed something like a wolf, violin, black widow spider, native tarantula, or harvestman of course. Most of the cham species I've kept loved them. Remember, wild chams probably eat any arachnid that comes along.

 

[KapitalJ]

@Carlton excuse my ignorance, what does "FWIW" mean?

 

[Carlton]

For What Its Worth.