Stillborn bradypodion thamnobates

[distortionz]

Been a long time since I've worked with chameleons that give live birth so hopefully someone can help me out here.. I got a pair of bradypodion thamnobates back in October. The female was with a male prior to coming to me.. I've been monitoring her close she went from 5 grams when I got her to 9 grams.. I was starting to think she wasn't gravid though because it had been a while.. Well upon inspecting the cage when I got home today from work I noticed a stillborn baby who never made it out off the sac. Upon inspecting the cage I found a second one.. they appear to be fully developed.. I will include pictures.. Anyone who has had experience with bradys.. have yours usually gave birth to all of them at once? I searched the cage and didn't find any chameleons or more stillborns.. Also anyone with experience in having stillborns in most cases do all of the babies end up being stillborn or did you get some live? The female still appears a little wide so I'm hoping she is still going to drop more but not getting my hopes up.. I know when I had jacksons they dropped all the babies at once in the morning.. Any thoughts as to what could cause them to be stillborn? I have a thought myself but I want to see what everyone else says.

Thanks for your help..

 

[distortionz]

Here is a closer pic of one of the babies that never left the sac and the female after dropping these two.

 

[kinyonga]

Did they dropped quite a distance when laid?

 

[distortionz]

No the cage is only about 30 inches tall.. And none went to the ground one was on a pothos leaf, and the other on a branch.

 

[bobcochran]

I love this species! I've never had any yet,
My experience with panthers whose eggs go full term, then the eggs sweat normally but never pip and I cut them open to find fully formed embryos dead inside, is related to the health and vitality of the dam. Perhaps the female's husbandry before and/or during your care needs improvement. This is NOT an indictment of your husbandry. I don't know where you got them from or how long they've been in your care, but we all learn as we go!
@deremenisisblu

 

[Dave Bolamperti]

Sorry for the loss of such a special species.. My favorite, maybe someday . I had Jacksons for years and humidity for is important in live births, some are just not strong enough so tiny. She still looks fat to me
Best of luck
Dave

 

[markpulawski]

Mine had all of hers over about 4 hours and though I thought she had more no more came out. 1 was deformed but not dead which I euthanized, the other 5 have all done well. Make sure you have your fruit flys ready.

 

[distortionz]

I love this species! I've never had any yet,
My experience with panthers whose eggs go full term, then the eggs sweat normally but never pip and I cut them open to find fully formed embryos dead inside, is related to the health and vitality of the dam. Perhaps the female's husbandry before and/or during your care needs improvement. This is NOT an indictment of your husbandry. I don't know where you got them from or how long they've been in your care, but we all learn as we go!
@deremenisisblu

Agreed husbandry definitely has to be taken into question. Although I'm pretty confident I'm up to par. later when I have more time I will detail. My initial belief is that the female was too small.

Thanks everyone

 

[jajeanpierre]

My first thought was that they simply suffocated in the egg sack. (I have zero experience with chameleons that give birth to live babies.)

These are one of my favorite species. I intend to have one some day. Good luck with the rest. She still looks gravid to me.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Females can be quite small and still give birth to a viable clutch. Has there been any unusual activity at your house recently. Construction, etc., that might cause a lot of vibrations?

Chris