Superworms: consensus?

[nick barta]

All I know is people don't put half of the thought into what they eat as they do their chameleons. I'm sure no one on this board knows what the protein/calcium/phosphorus/fat %'s of their dinner was last night. Point being, you don't have to feed your chameleon as if it were preparing for a marathon. Sure you don't want to stuff 20 wax worms down its throat everyday, but sometimes people really over think this. Supre worms are a fine feeder in my opinion

Amen!

Nick

 

[nick barta]

Im kind of tired of typing the same stuff ever so often, so I'll just quote myself:

Albacheck,

What are the basic differences between German and American husbandry, feeders, and breeding/incubation? I would love for you to post the basic differences, you write so well, and we can't get better without being exposed to new ways of doing things.

Thanks

Nick

 

[nick barta]

Forget it, they won't hear it, we are german

Homer,

I will only not listen to you if you choose not to speak. Give me a chance. I am not part of the "THEY" you refer to, nor is Sandra. Dialog is essential to get rid of the THEM and US mentality.
Please post the differences as you see them between German and U.S. husbandry. I value differing opinions far more than those that agree with me.

Nick

 

[susurrus]

As this thread has veered wildly off-topic into realms of possible hostility, let's just end it with the consensus that variety is good for chams and having superworms as part of that variety is fine, though they shouldn't be fed too often as they have a lot of fat.

Alright, shall we move on?

 

[laurie]

Forget it, they won't hear it, we are german

Wow I guess that means I do strange traveling, except for Canada, 30 miles away, my last 2 vacations have both been to Germany. One a river boat trip and one a week in Bavaria.

We do some thing different here, that's true, and yes maybe some of us get defensive, but we all want to grow in this hobby or passion, and learning is always a part of that. So you may have to allow us time just as I hope we all allow you time to learn for us.

Your post show you are very knowledgeable about chameleons, please don't stop sharing that knowledge with all of us everywhere.

 

[Powers]

As this thread has veered wildly off-topic into realms of possible hostility, let's just end it with the consensus that variety is good for chams and having superworms as part of that variety is fine, though they shouldn't be fed too often as they have a lot of fat.

Alright, shall we move on?

This is what forums are all about, information sharing. So long as long as everyone is being respectful I don't any reason to move on just yet. There is a lot of good info and opinions generating from this thread.

 

[eisentrauti]

I think albacheck explains everything you should know about it. Chameleons are programmed to each as much as they can, because in the wildlife it could be their last meal for some weeks. But in captivity that will never happen. So why do you give your chameleons such fat things to eat ? I couldn't understand it.

It don't makes me wonder that here are so many WC animals and so less CB ones, expect pardalis and calyptratus but they can be handled by everyone. Theres no reason to feed your chameleons with those worms, espacially superworms. They are pure fat !

 

[summoner12]

I use supers as 'staple' feeders... kinda... If you gutload them well you shouldn't have any issues as long as you mix them with other feeders.

I have butters, supers, silks, horns and dubias to offer.... my guys don't really get bored.

 

[eisentrauti]

Ok, I give up

 

[Julirs]

Ok-here is another thought...I do not have any fat chameleons that are eating Supers...but you do see PLENTY of overweight chameleons eating crickets??? I have to call owner error here.

 

[laurie]

I do have 2 fat chameleons, but they are both female veiled and as they are about 8 and 9 months I am thinking the dreaded infertile eggs are on the way.
I guess my food problem is different, my chams don't like hornworms, silk worms, butter worms, and only 3 will every touch a roach, of those 3, 2 will eat super worms. They won't cup feed and some days don't get excited about crickets. None of them will touch veggies. I have cut down on food as I think I was over feeding. Now the adults get 6 or 7 crickets every other day. My nosey be isn't yet an adult so I feed him a couple of extra crickets. I hate crickets and was hoping to get away from them all time but is hasn't happened. Anyone got any ideas? I offer the other foods time and time again, and maybe on a good day one of the chams will try one or the other food sources but that is it.

 

[eisentrauti]

I do have 2 fat chameleons, but they are both female veiled and as they are about 8 and 9 months I am thinking the dreaded infertile eggs are on the way.
I guess my food problem is different, my chams don't like hornworms, silk worms, butter worms, and only 3 will every touch a roach, of those 3, 2 will eat super worms. They won't cup feed and some days don't get excited about crickets. None of them will touch veggies. I have cut down on food as I think I was over feeding. Now the adults get 6 or 7 crickets every other day. My nosey be isn't yet an adult so I feed him a couple of extra crickets. I hate crickets and was hoping to get away from them all time but is hasn't happened. Anyone got any ideas? I offer the other foods time and time again, and maybe on a good day one of the chams will try one or the other food sources but that is it.

Make a little diet, about 2-3 weeks, just give them water and love
After that they will eat everything. At the moment a I've had some problems with one of my male deremensis, he won't eat dubias anymore. So he gets two weeks nothing and voilà now he eats them

 

[laurie]

Make a little diet, about 2-3 weeks, just give them water and love
After that they will eat everything. At the moment a I've had some problems with one of my male deremensis, he won't eat dubias anymore. So he gets two weeks nothing and voilà now he eats them

Okay I will try, but I am a pushover how about 1 week the first time? I would panic over one of my chams not getting food for 2 weeks.

 

[eisentrauti]

Don't humanize them. They are just reptils with a very low metabolism. They won't even have a problem when they get a month nothing. Try it out like albacheck said and put them before and after the week on the scales

 

[summoner12]

I do have 2 fat chameleons, but they are both female veiled and as they are about 8 and 9 months I am thinking the dreaded infertile eggs are on the way.
I guess my food problem is different, my chams don't like hornworms, silk worms, butter worms, and only 3 will every touch a roach, of those 3, 2 will eat super worms. They won't cup feed and some days don't get excited about crickets. None of them will touch veggies. I have cut down on food as I think I was over feeding. Now the adults get 6 or 7 crickets every other day. My nosey be isn't yet an adult so I feed him a couple of extra crickets. I hate crickets and was hoping to get away from them all time but is hasn't happened. Anyone got any ideas? I offer the other foods time and time again, and maybe on a good day one of the chams will try one or the other food sources but that is it.

I think the eating habbits are due to the fact that you house your chams in a bathroom JK!

6-7 crieckets for adults everyother day is fine. I feed my FAT veiled a super a day... sometimes a HW. I can't make him lose weight. He is just a fat ass. Jake on the other hand is super thin and I feed him every chance I get. each morning I give him a couple of supers. In the afternoon I give him a couple of supers or HWs as well. He is starting to put on some fat pads... but for the most part he is thin as a rail. He seems to monitor is own weight... So far he is gaining a little bit of fat.... but not much.

 

[eisentrauti]

I think the eating habbits are due to the fact that you house your chams in a bathroom JK!

6-7 crieckets for adults everyother day is fine. I feed my FAT veiled a super a day... sometimes a HW. I can't make him lose weight. He is just a fat ass. Jake on the other hand is super thin and I feed him every chance I get. each morning I give him a couple of supers. In the afternoon I give him a couple of supers or HWs as well. He is starting to put on some fat pads... but for the most part he is thin as a rail. He seems to monitor is own weight... So far he is gaining a little bit of fat.... but not much.

I bet your fat calyptratus won't live longer than 3 years

 

[Brad Ramsey]

not a super perhaps not, but worms are indigenous to every part of the world you just have to look, but they eat worms in the wild IE grub ect. not all of yeman is a desert. mountain dwelling species have plenty of shrubby, and land insects to eat. they do find crickets since most of the crickets we buy are from yemen. i had forgot what normal crickets looked like, and once scared me because i thought it was a spider here in the house LOL

Chameleons do not eat worms or grubs in their natural environment.
Silk and Horn "worms" are caterpillars which a chameleon would eat in "the wild"
It's not likely they would find many crickets either. Crickets are nocturnal.

-Brad

 

[Eric Adrignola]

The europeans give more locusts and hoppers than we can - and they are about the most natural chameleon food possible - flying, arboreal, high in chitin, etc.

Most if not all commercial foods in the US are totally unnatural for chameleons - superworms are not so far off from crickets - both live under rocks and never climb trees!

PEople habitually overfeed their chameleons - grossly overfeed them - all the time. Fatty insects seem like they would be more of a problem, but I think it's more quantity than quality - like how the French can eat fatty, buttery food and stay thin - they're not going to a buffett and eatign all they can eat!

I have fed superworms as a partial staple - often over 50% of my animals' diets.

but in low quantity. Never had fat chameleons. My CB melleri is at his heaviest, 270grams - and is nowhere near obese. My big veiled chameleon is 180grams at close to 20". I've seen shorter calypotratus 300grams.

I think it's better to use higher chitin, lower fat foods for most of the diet - it's more natural. I KNOW it's entirely possible to feed superworms as a significant portion of a diet(low quantities, of course) with no health issues.

Diet wise, aside from the constant over-feeding of chameleons seen in captivity, the two biggest issues I have are people: claiming soft insects are better because they dont' cause impaction. AND superworms and mealworms are bad because of the chitin content.

Only insects I've seen cause problems with chitin are big, hissing roaches. They're armored.

 

[summoner12]

drr

I bet your fat calyptratus won't live longer than 3 years

Well thank you for that bet against my chams life.

He is now roughly 16 months old.... the clock is ticking......

 

[eisentrauti]

Sorry but chameleons with adiposias don't have a high life average
It sounds hard but I don't understand why you feed 6-7 crickets per day ! That's enough for a week. You know that your chameleons are fat but you don't do anything against it. That's irresponsible