Tail a diff color, should I be worried?

[taz_s_824]

Hi all,

Attached is a picture of my veiled. He is going through a recent shed and I noticed today that a part of his tail is a different color. His tail is still shedding but wanted to make sure it's nothing to worry about. It's been this way for a few hours and while still asleep his tail is still the same.

Anything to be concerned about? Is this because of the shed?

I also just came back from the vet day before where they gave him a couple of shots but nothing on the tail. He's eaten very little.

 

[etclement]

As long as he can curl the tail and move it normally it should be fine. Try giving a shower to help get that shed off.

 

[kinyonga]

Did the tail get caught in something or pinched?

 

[taz_s_824]

Yes he can move his tail normally and everything seems fine which is why I am suspecting it's the shed. I gave him a 30 min shower and I noticed it a couple of hours after. That tail is a tough part to take the shed off from so it's still on there.

And no, nothing happened to his tail. He was hanging off it and wrapping it around my arm earlier. He has a very strong grip.

 

[kinyonga]

I don't think the color change in the tail is from shed...just my opinion.

 

[taz_s_824]

Ok, I will ask my vet about it just in case.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@taz_s_824 I also don't think the tail color is related to the shed.

My gut feeling is it is related to the injections the vet gave. If the tail is working normally, the color might resolve itself or it might not. I see the tail isn't pure black, but a dark green so I think you will find it fades back to normal over time.

Reptiles have a different circulatory system (that I'm not familiar with it!) around the kidneys and the tail. I think it is called a caudal port--something port anyway. It is the reason vets do not give injections to the tail (and maybe the hind legs). I am also not sure if that structure applies to chameleons.

What injections did your vet give?

I've found chameleons can discolor for benign reasons. I've marked up animals restraining them to medicate them or applying pressure after an injection.

I honestly don't think there is anything you can do about the tail. I know when my chameleon discolored in my vet's hands (see below), he just commented on the stress coloration and wasn't concerned. It was dramatic and happened in his hands during an examination. (He's board certified in zoo medicine.)

This was a wild caught that had the spinous processes of his sail fin on his tail degloved and stripped to the bone at import. He's been battling infections in the tail in the more than a year since import and has been into the vet many times over it. At one point, his tail went from normal green to half green and half black while the vet was examining him. The division between the black and green was along the spine, so the right side of his tail was jet black and the left green. Over a few days or weeks, the green part of his tail went black and he ended up with a line between the black and green similar to your boy's. My chameleon lost strength in his tail which ended up almost limp. I expected it was the end of the line for him but over months, the tail slowly lost its jet black color and he is slowly gaining strength in it. I'm not sure if the infection is cleared, but the vet is really quite happy with it and the swelling is slowly going down. His tail is stronger but still weak.

Hope that helps.

 

[kinyonga]

Jajeanpierre..you are right about the chameleons having a different circulatory system.

 

[taz_s_824]

@taz_s_824 I also don't think the tail color is related to the shed.

My gut feeling is it is related to the injections the vet gave. If the tail is working normally, the color might resolve itself or it might not. I see the tail isn't pure black, but a dark green so I think you will find it fades back to normal over time.

Reptiles have a different circulatory system (that I'm not familiar with it!) around the kidneys and the tail. I think it is called a caudal port--something port anyway. It is the reason vets do not give injections to the tail (and maybe the hind legs). I am also not sure if that structure applies to chameleons.

What injections did your vet give?

I've found chameleons can discolor for benign reasons. I've marked up animals restraining them to medicate them or applying pressure after an injection.

I honestly don't think there is anything you can do about the tail. I know when my chameleon discolored in my vet's hands (see below), he just commented on the stress coloration and wasn't concerned. It was dramatic and happened in his hands during an examination. (He's board certified in zoo medicine.)

This was a wild caught that had the spinous processes of his sail fin on his tail degloved and stripped to the bone at import. He's been battling infections in the tail in the more than a year since import and has been into the vet many times over it. At one point, his tail went from normal green to half green and half black while the vet was examining him. The division between the black and green was along the spine, so the right side of his tail was jet black and the left green. Over a few days or weeks, the green part of his tail went black and he ended up with a line between the black and green similar to your boy's. My chameleon lost strength in his tail which ended up almost limp. I expected it was the end of the line for him but over months, the tail slowly lost its jet black color and he is slowly gaining strength in it. I'm not sure if the infection is cleared, but the vet is really quite happy with it and the swelling is slowly going down. His tail is stronger but still weak.

Hope that helps.

Wow, that's a mouthful. Thanks! Attached image is what injections the vet gave.

I checked on him again today and his tail still looks the same. Also, he hasn't eaten since the vet visit. that is my main concern. It's been 2 days so far but tomorrow I'll try leaving some collard greens in his cage to see if he'll eat those at least since he will sometimes eat his plants in his cage.

He poops very little and his urates are super white!

The vet also gave me calcium injections to give him every day that should last 30 days.

Otherwise, his behavior seems normal and he uses his tail fine. He was crawling all over my face and almost stabbed me in the eye with the end of his tail!

Also, it's only one side of the tail that's a darker color. I'll send my vet pics of his poop and discoloration.

 

[Angelwolf]

I theorize this may be an extreme stress defense mechanism. They make the tail look dead, thus confusing/discouraging the "predator" (in this case, the vet) from eating it, and allowing it to try to make a quick get away.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I theorize this may be an extreme stress defense mechanism. They make the tail look dead, thus confusing/discouraging the "predator" (in this case, the vet) from eating it, and allowing it to try to make a quick get away.

I don't agree. I have only found that kind of color change in response to some sort of trauma. Predators eat black prey just as well as green prey.

I had a long talk with @jpowell86 when my male's tail went black and limp. He told me he had many that had done a similar thing and sometimes it went back to normal and sometimes it was permanent.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@taz_s_824 It seems he gave him fluids, vitamins and calcium injections.

What was his diagnosis?

Based on his treatment, it seems he is treating him for MBD plus dehydration. Dehydrated animals often do not eat.

Poor appetite is a symptom of a sick animal, and stress only compounds illness/unthriftiness. I noticed you talked about him crawling all over your face which suggests you are handling him for things other than medicating him. Please stop handling him. He needs very little stress.

Your vet is the one to answer your questions.

As far as the tail, perhaps you are noticing it returning back to a normal coloration. It doesn't always happen evenly.

 

[taz_s_824]

@taz_s_824 It seems he gave him fluids, vitamins and calcium injections.

What was his diagnosis?

Based on his treatment, it seems he is treating him for MBD plus dehydration. Dehydrated animals often do not eat.

Poor appetite is a symptom of a sick animal, and stress only compounds illness/unthriftiness. I noticed you talked about him crawling all over your face which suggests you are handling him for things other than medicating him. Please stop handling him. He needs very little stress.

Your vet is the one to answer your questions.

As far as the tail, perhaps you are noticing it returning back to a normal coloration. It doesn't always happen evenly.

They did blood work and results show he has very low level of calcium and he is dehydrated. Please be aware that for a week prior to this visit, he hadn't been eating much and I suspect it could be due to his sperm plugs. I misted him more myself and put on KY jelly as suggested by some ppl on this forum.

I had a call with my vet office the next day as they were following up to provide full results of blood work. They said everything else seems fine. They said they don't know why he's not eating but to keep them updated if he's still not eating for the next couple of days.

Also, I do not handle him. I will handle him once every few months that is when I take him outside (I live in NYC so only during spring or summer months of course) or when he comes out of his cage and needs to be put back in. This conflicts with the vets advice on taking him out everyday for 15 minutes at least in natural sunlight. I told her he does not like being handled but she insisted anyway due to his low calcium level. (I think she knew he doesn't like being handled because she almost got bitten and so did her assistant. She saw him stressed during the visit as well.)

Just a summary of my history with Jasper (my veiled that we're talking about) I've had him for at least 10 months. He would hiss when I first had him at 4-5 months and was unusually small for his age. Clearly he's not an alpha male. When he displayed yellow urates a few months later and grew older, I got an automated mister and his urates color went to white. He was eating at least 5-10 superworms and hornworms daily with calcium dusted, sometimes with d3. He hydrates himself by licking the leaves or eating them with water droplets on them. He does not like drinking under the mister but when I'd mist him myself, he would drink.

Basically after the sperm plugs, he reduced eating but he still took dusted hornworms from me 1-3 a day. When he went to the vet, he was very stressed as he was not sedated and he's never been the type of animal that was okay with being around people probably because he's in a room where people are barely there.

When he was on my face, he did not display signs of stress but I understand that doesn't mean he wasn't stressed. Also I have to give him calcium fluids orally daily. I don't know if that stressed him out but I think I'm good about it because I don't have to hold him down and it's done in under 10 seconds.

Hope that gives you a better insight as to why I am concerned. He's never not eaten under my care, stressed or not.

 

[taz_s_824]

His tail is still discolored but it looks a little better now. Hopefully it'll go back to normal soon.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@taz_s_824 Thanks for the update.

Sperm plugs are often related to low Vitamin A, but your vet gave you an injection so that should solve that pretty quickly. You might start adding human Vitamin A from a gel cap once a month. Talk to your vet about that.

The trick with handling a sick animal is to do it really quickly. Get everything ready ahead of time so you aren't restraining him while you are fumbling around for things.

Here's some tips for the next time you have to take him to the vet. Get yourself a little plastic tote. I use totes with holes drilled that are about 8" x 6" x 7" tall that I buy for about $4. I might put a branch in or just wad up paper towels (take a couple and twist them into a rope and coil that in the bottom). I use moistened paper towels on the bottom so the humidity is really high. I put the tote with the chameleon in a dark bag. If I don't have a bag that blocks all the light out, I will throw a dark towel over the tote in the bag. When you get to the vet leave the Jasper in the dark bag until the vet comes in the room to examine him. The vet tech does not need to see him before the vet nor does s/he need to get a weight on Jasper before the vet comes in. I discuss my problem with the vet tech who is just taking the history without them looking at my animal. Some might insist, but I just politely say, no, I don't want to stress the chameleon unnecessarily. When the vet comes in, we discuss the problem in depth. It is only after I've talked everything over do I bring out the chameleon. The vet will weigh them and have a quick look and then I return them to the dark box.

I agree with your vet about taking him out for natural sunlight but be really cautious since he was dehydrated. You can get a patio mister from Home Depot that attaches to the hose and keep the mister running the whole time he is out to keep up the humidity. Do you have an outdoor cage? A cheap reptibreeze set up in dappled sunlight would be perfect. It doesn't have to be as big as his indoor cage--just something he can get out in the sun in. He'll relax in a planted outdoor cage. They really benefit from natural sunlight.

It is worrying that he was dehydrated for no apparent reason. I suggest you increase your misting and humidity.

When you talked about him climbing on your face, I thought you were handling him for no other reason that you wanted to hold him. You definitely want to minimize their stress levels and avoid unnecessary stresses.

 

[taz_s_824]

@taz_s_824 Thanks for the update.

Sperm plugs are often related to low Vitamin A, but your vet gave you an injection so that should solve that pretty quickly. You might start adding human Vitamin A from a gel cap once a month. Talk to your vet about that.

The trick with handling a sick animal is to do it really quickly. Get everything ready ahead of time so you aren't restraining him while you are fumbling around for things.

Here's some tips for the next time you have to take him to the vet. Get yourself a little plastic tote. I use totes with holes drilled that are about 8" x 6" x 7" tall that I buy for about $4. I might put a branch in or just wad up paper towels (take a couple and twist them into a rope and coil that in the bottom). I use moistened paper towels on the bottom so the humidity is really high. I put the tote with the chameleon in a dark bag. If I don't have a bag that blocks all the light out, I will throw a dark towel over the tote in the bag. When you get to the vet leave the Jasper in the dark bag until the vet comes in the room to examine him. The vet tech does not need to see him before the vet nor does s/he need to get a weight on Jasper before the vet comes in. I discuss my problem with the vet tech who is just taking the history without them looking at my animal. Some might insist, but I just politely say, no, I don't want to stress the chameleon unnecessarily. When the vet comes in, we discuss the problem in depth. It is only after I've talked everything over do I bring out the chameleon. The vet will weigh them and have a quick look and then I return them to the dark box.

I agree with your vet about taking him out for natural sunlight but be really cautious since he was dehydrated. You can get a patio mister from Home Depot that attaches to the hose and keep the mister running the whole time he is out to keep up the humidity. Do you have an outdoor cage? A cheap reptibreeze set up in dappled sunlight would be perfect. It doesn't have to be as big as his indoor cage--just something he can get out in the sun in. He'll relax in a planted outdoor cage. They really benefit from natural sunlight.

It is worrying that he was dehydrated for no apparent reason. I suggest you increase your misting and humidity.

When you talked about him climbing on your face, I thought you were handling him for no other reason that you wanted to hold him. You definitely want to minimize their stress levels and avoid unnecessary stresses.

Thank you for the tips. I did buy a little doggie bag that's dark and has netting on it. Should I have those covered up? I can include some branches in it and tie it securely through the netting before I cover it up.

For a cage outside, I have two options. I bought a butterfly cage big enough that's white. I have an actual Reptibreeze cage from when he was little that's 16x16x30. Or should I get something else?

And I've increased my hand misting even though he hides from it. If I try to give him a shower, he will definitely run around all over the place so I'd rather mist him while he's inside his cage. He eventually stops trying to get out of his cage and starts drinking and cleaning his eyes. Should I mist him for 30 minutes everyday? He does take a long time to shed which is why the vet suggested it. Normally it's small, barely there skin that's left over. I also increased his misting from 5 times a day for 15-20 minutes to 6 times a day (every two hours). Normally he will hide from water so I believe I will need to hand mist everyday to make sure he's getting his water and humidity. Since I increased it two days ago, he seems to be shedding much faster. I think he eats a lot of his shed right away because I barely see his shed lying around the cage.

There were two silkworms missing from his cup so I think he ate them. Yay!

 

[jajeanpierre]

@taz_s_824 Use the Reptibreeze. Stick branches and a big bushy plant in it such as an hibiscus. Stick it on a table under a tree so he gets dappled light and the area doesn't heat up. He can heat up by putting himself in direct sunlight. He doesn't need really high temps to be able to increase his body temperature. Set up a mister to spray past the cage and all the air around the cage for the whole time he is outside. He's got a dehydration issue, so don't make it worse.

This is what I use outside. It's under $20 and attaches to your hose. It's a 10' 1/4" tube with about 5 mist heads which spray a fine foggy mist.

www.arcticcove.com/product/10-ft-1-4-in-misting-kit-mac1410k

The likely reason your chameleon is avoiding the mist is that the droplets are too big so hit him. You want a foggy mist. Hand misters produce droplets that are a lot bigger than an automatic misting systems' mist.

 

[taz_s_824]

@taz_s_824 Use the Reptibreeze. Stick branches and a big bushy plant in it such as an hibiscus. Stick it on a table under a tree so he gets dappled light and the area doesn't heat up. He can heat up by putting himself in direct sunlight. He doesn't need really high temps to be able to increase his body temperature. Set up a mister to spray past the cage and all the air around the cage for the whole time he is outside. He's got a dehydration issue, so don't make it worse.

This is what I use outside. It's under $20 and attaches to your hose. It's a 10' 1/4" tube with about 5 mist heads which spray a fine foggy mist.

www.arcticcove.com/product/10-ft-1-4-in-misting-kit-mac1410k

The likely reason your chameleon is avoiding the mist is that the droplets are too big so hit him. You want a foggy mist. Hand misters produce droplets that are a lot bigger than an automatic misting systems' mist.

My misting system is the Mistking Starter Kit. The mist is very fine. The hand mister I use has very fine mist of water as well. I bought this particularly due to the reason you listed. Because of the big drops of water.

I'm going to the vet again soon as he still has not been eating.

 

[kinyonga]

Is this the same chameleon with the sperm plugs? Did they ever come out? Has he been pooping?

 

[Classy]

@taz_s_824 It seems he gave him fluids, vitamins and calcium injections.

What was his diagnosis?

Based on his treatment, it seems he is treating him for MBD plus dehydration. Dehydrated animals often do not eat.

Poor appetite is a symptom of a sick animal, and stress only compounds illness/unthriftiness. I noticed you talked about him crawling all over your face which suggests you are handling him for things other than medicating him. Please stop handling him. He needs very little stress.

Your vet is the one to answer your questions.

As far as the tail, perhaps you are noticing it returning back to a normal coloration. It doesn't always happen evenly.

My little 3 and half month old panthers tail turned very pail for a couple of days, then turned back to normal color two days ago. Is that normal?