Tail rot problem??

[CleanLineChameleons]

Ummm...I only skimmed this thread so I don't know if anyone said, but it looks to me like his tail was shut in the door or something like that.

Dave:
Man you know I love you and have the utmost respect for you, but it does seem like everything can be blamed on vit A...I mean, I know it has to do with cell development but you cannot honestly blame so much on this vitamin. Look how healthy those animals look! I don't think it has anything to do with cell development or you would see other signs, the tail was pinched somehow.

If you are worried about infection put some Povidone on it. It will never grow back, but it isn't too bad (only about 1/4 inch).

Good luck,

Keep us posted,

Chris

 

[Cainschams]

Thats a very good informative post jojackson. Im not pointing any names or am I calling you out personally but. I am about tired of seeing people bashing newer members when they come here with a problem or they need to change something in their husbandry. We all started at the begining and Im sure we all had to change something with our husbandry at one point or another. You guys are NOT "all mighty" The people who have been keeping chameleons for years can calmly give advise without being rude and without the SUPER EGO!!! If you want to help someone be civil, if you want to bash someone and stroke your ego to make yourself look better, well, DONT!!! I know research is what you should do before you buy a new pet but how can you be rude to someone who just saw the coolest animal ever and while admiring it a guy tells you, OH here is what you need, you can take care of him its easy. I would bet 80 percent of us should have done more research before jumping in, Im guilty of it. It seems that the people who come here, get good advise, fix their husbandry and begin being rude to newcommers. Im done thats my 2 cents on that.

Again I am not pointing at you jo, your last post was very informative, just the straw that broke the camels back

Dave has posted some very good info for you Modkrew. It could be a variety of things that could be causing this. Vit A deficiency, retained shed and before anyone starts going insane about you housing 2 veileds in the same enclosure, that could be the cause also. The tail can look like a nice yummy worm from behind a leaf. ITs possible your other cham mistaked it for a feeder and went ahead and gave it a good chomp.

Personally, I would wait a little longer to see if it starts spreading up the tail. Like you said its not spreading and if it doesnt anymore then it should just fall off after it shrivles up. Put some anti bacterial ointment on it and keep an eye on it. If it does start to spread even slightly more I would get it to the vet because it probably wont stop.

Good luck with your guy and by the way. I would get another cage and seperate the 2 ASAP.

EDIT: Just realized you got them off of Flchams. Im not insinuating that Flchams is just some guy that would say "OH here is what you need, you can take care of him its easy" just so that doesnt get taken out of context Also housing younger chams is alright but at the sign of any aggression should be seperated.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Ummm...I only skimmed this thread so I don't know if anyone said, but it looks to me like his tail was shut in the door or something like that.

Dave:
Man you know I love you and have the utmost respect for you, but it does seem like everything can be blamed on vit A...I mean, I know it has to do with cell development but you cannot honestly blame so much on this vitamin. Look how healthy those animals look! I don't think it has anything to do with cell development or you would see other signs, the tail was pinched somehow.
[...]Chris

I agree that the animal looks very happy and healthy otherwise. I'm no vet, but I'd be inclined to think that perhaps the tail got pinched, or that an incomplete shed cut circulation, or possibly even a contact burn? My concern would be increased if the dead area spreads, or if it falls off and leaves an open wound. I'm glad to hear/read that your willing to see a vet if necessary, Modkrew.

 

[Lancecham]

After viewing the pictures it looks like the tail was caught in the cage or had an altercation with a cage mate. The black tissue is dead and will fall off soon. You stated the area is not getting any worse and I believe you said the cham is acting normally. The area in front of the black area is completely healthy.
Here is what I would do. Let the dead tissue fall off naturally. Don't pick at it or anything. Just as we were kids, our parents used to say,"Don't pick your scabs." This is basically the same. When the section falls off, inspect the area. You may want to put some Neosporin on the end of the tail for piece of mind for a couple days.
The area doesn't look infected, so everything should go well.

 

[desultadox]

I've seen some cases of a slow shed cutting off circulation to the tip of a tail before, and none of them ever looked like that! Usually that part of the tail will just become a really dark green or brown and be a little thin. Your cham's tail loops completely black and raw. So I'm with these guys who suggest some outside physical factor (closing tail in door, physical altercation, etc.)

 

[littleliz]

I don't know if this helps but I had a male veiled cham that was a rescue...He had a similar looking tail problem to that. I did take him to the vet who said he seemed OK overall and the tail end would drop off of its own accord without the trauma to the animal of having it removed. I ws told to make sure that it did not spread up the tail or look swollen at any time or I would need to go back to the vet..... Unfortunatly the damage to the tail was more extensive than any of us had realized. The damaged tip did indeed fall off and he seemed in good health for a while after apart from not being as bright in colouration as a normal happy cham is. I then noticed that he was not using his back leg properly and had it hung loose when resting. I wont go into details but he went down hill very fast in a matter of hours. I did notice a tiny tiny lump higher on his tail which I could not understand. Romeo went to the vet and it apeard that he had brocken his tail and we unfortunatly had to say doodbye to him at that point............

So my guess is that he has brocken the end of his tail.... which may not be a huge issue depending on how he brock it! But there may well be multiple breaks if there is one!

The lump incidently was the bone trying to heal itsself which ws putting pressure on his nerves, hense he lost use of his back legs poor lad. RIP Romeo

I wish I knew how this had happened but he came to me with no background information.

 

[jojackson]

So which scenario is likely Modkrew? If you had caught its tail in the door, you would know, surely, so thats not it.

That leaves cham inflicted damage (bites, or self caught in something etc) or Circulation loss due shed constriction, or Daves hypothesis of vit A deficiency for whatever reason)

If you have two chams together, bites is real possibility, the very end of the tail is quite delicate.

Only you will know what its sheds have been like regards its tail tip ?

Im my humble opinion, and given your opinion its not spreading, it dosent look like the blackening associated with the vit A issue as in the pics/threads Dave posted.

The question is, have you seen the vet? what did he/she say? whats the animals behaviour like?

I've seen some cases of a slow shed cutting off circulation to the tip of a tail before, and none of them ever looked like that! Usually that part of the tail will just become a really dark green or brown and be a little thin. Your cham's tail loops completely black and raw.

He didnt say it was raw at all. The condition of the tip in the above scenario, will depend entirely how badly constricted it is, and how long for. I have seen various species of lizards with shed fail circulation cutoff issues , wherein the damaged tip looked exactly like that, black and even bonehard and britle with the end bone protruding.
(none of them were mine BTW) most required amputation and careful future care of the stumpy bit, but went on without the tip just as healthy as before.

Again, there is no certainty this is the issue with this cham, only Modkrew and his/her vet will know.

 

[BocaJan]

My snake had this same thing happen. The little bit on the end of it didn't shed. We left it and it didn't come off the 2nd shed either. By then the end looked just like the chams tail. While hubby was holding the snake I gently touched the end, the snake moved and the end came off. No blood, no sore, just healthy tail with the little piece on the floor. It was only about 1/2 inch. I got a hunch that is what is happening to your cham. If he goes into another shed soon you will be able to tell in short order. If you go to a vet he will probably just snip it off because it is dead or dying.

 

[Modkrew]

HEY!!! THANK YOU ALL SOOOO MUCH!!! I APPRICATE ALL THE HELP MORE THAN YOU THINK!!

at this point i will probably wait until his next shed (checking for spreading on a daily basis for 10 min to inspect him) and hopefully it will fall off, and i can promis all of you "animal freaks" (not in a bad way) that i will take care of it! if needed i will take the poor little guy to the vet. dont worry - im not trying to harm the chamelion in any way shape or form!
i love animals and i have always had a thing for reptiles!

HE IS CURRENTLY IN NO PAIN, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. HE IS EATING AND DRINKING ALOT AND HAS THE PROPER LIGHTING AND CARE.

thanks again 4 all your help!

 

[Syn]

Well keep us updated please and do take him to the vet right away anyways - we aren't animal experts here, nor are we perfect - and it's possible there's something INSIDE that could be doing this along with Vit A. Even if he doesn't look like he's in pain he may very well be. Chameleons are great at hiding things until it's too late.

Goodluck.

 

[OntarioLizardman]

if it was a shed/circulation problem, wouldnt soaking in warm water help get the shed off?

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Justin,

I took a quick look back at my post and noticed that I hadn't posted the link to the site that talks about "Necrosis/sloughing of the tip of the tail" and its relation to Hypovitaminosis A.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

My gut feeling is that the tail tip necrosis in question here probably isn't due to a lack of vitamin A. However, you can safely "cover that base" by giving a small amount based on that dosage schedule in my earlier link. This will assure that there is not an actual shortage of vitamin A while, at the same time, minimizing any chances of an overdose.

I've personally dealt with two chameleons that had tail tip necrosis. One was a Veiled rescue that I had been keeping years ago and the other was a friend's melleri. Both had vet visits where both had the necrotic tissue cut away and the end closed. Doses of vitamin A were given after that.

 

[jojackson]

if it was a shed/circulation problem, wouldnt soaking in warm water help get the shed off?

In most reptiles yes, but this comes back to the peculiarity of chameleons being particularly adverse to handling in general, ontop of which, as far as I know, Being arborial, they just dont soak naturally.

Combine a dislike/stress of being handled, with the unnaturalness of being even partly submerged and you can see this is not really the best option for a cham. Not to mention there habit of persistantly climbing upwards when stressed. How on earth would you do it?

Imo regular misting of the enviroment to increase overall humidity during the whole shed process is best. If needed, gentle (very gentle) side to side rubbing between the fingers whilst wet might be the ticket.

Note: I wouldnt ever stroke/rub downwards with a cham tail, unrolling it against the chams will may cause significant damage or broken tail.

You might also try misting the chams tail coils whilst its asleep, you may just get enough moisture im among the coils, hopefully around the tip to do the job. The tail will remain coiled all night, so this would be a 'proxy' soaking.

Just a few suggestions.

 

[littleliz]

IMO after looking at the pictures of the tail tip, the end of his tail is already beyond saving and will probably fall off of its own acord very soon. It could have been any of the senarios that people here have come up as the possible cause of it in the first place. I think the main thing is to monitor the chameleon and particullaly the tail tip very closly to make sure it does not go any worse, or the chameleon shows any signs of distress. By the time Romeos tail looked like that, the tip came off only days later with no other problems regarding the tip. He still managed to use his tail for climbing. Chams are very nimbble graceful creatures but they do somtimes do daft things and slip which usually means suddenly swinging by the tail to save themselves. In Romeos case I beleive he may have had slightly weakend bones due to poor diet and probably broke his tail in a couple of places due to either a slip and swing by the tail or poor handling. I am not suggesting you have not looked after your cham well but are you aware of how he was looked after previously?

 

[Modkrew]

i can garentee i was now a poor handling problem. i have owned many chamelions, i know how to handle them, haha. BUT thanks for the advise!! its possible he could of slipped and used his tail to catch himself....i duno its lookin a little better cause the humidity here is increasing, and i think he is going to loose it soon hopefully

thanks again for all the hlpe guys, any more info would be cool, can never have too much info. lol

thankS!