Temperatures for Dwarf/Mt Meru Jackson

[jadeaudio]

I've had my small male jackson for about a month now and he seems to be a little less active than when I 1st bought him and I haven't had the greatest luck with WC chams. My CB panthers have always been great, but I battle with WC chams and if this one doesn't last I am done with WC chams. I've lost two Carpets and will probably lose my gravid Rudis since she hasn't eaten in about a week. One thing I definitely know now is not to buy WC females for sure.

Anyways, this Mt. Meru male Jackson is pretty awesome and I want to make sure the temps are ok or not. I currently have his ambient temps at around 66 to 70. His basking spot is 80. Humidity I have around 55% to 60% when he sleeps and it goes to about 80% to 88% during mistings. I also fabbed up a humifier to shoot into the cage with PVC piping. He was fatter and ate a lot more when I 1st got him, so I am a little worried about it.

 

[Lovereps]

I will defer to our experienced montane experts but...

according to Adcham, the ambient temps should be a tad higher--but not by much. .
Here's the link:
http://adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chjacksoniimeru.html
FWIW, if you are supplementing him as you do with your other chams, you are likely be oversupplementing him--as montane species are much more sensitive to oversupplementation.
Hopefully, those who have been long-term keepers of Jackson's will contribute to this thread

 

[adamkwas]

have you done a fecal on him? Has he been treated?

Yeah, I would up the ambient air temperature too.


Adam

 

[rcmike]

I would check him for parasites. I bought a WC pair of those that were heavily infested with parasites and died within days. Good luck.

 

[jadeaudio]

I'm gonna check with my vet. I have never taken a cham to a vet. I should at least call and see if they can do a fecal. I'll bump the temps. I thought they were supposed to be in cooler temps.

So what is the proper supplementation for these guys? I have only been giving him calcium.

 

[adamkwas]

No offence to you, but its no wonder your WC'S are dyeing if your not taking them to the vet. I would highly recommend taking your Meru and Rudis to the vet as soon as you can.

Good luck,


Adam

 

[adamkwas]

Keep him cool, just not too cool.


Adam

 

[jadeaudio]

Well problem is there really isn't any vets that specialize in chameleons near me. I will get a fecal done, but from what I have been told from experienced members on this forum who have dealt with WC's most gravid females will die after or before giving birth regardless if they go to the vet or not. My female carpet that died was egg bound. I do plan on getting a fecal done on the male jackson as I called and they said it was $19. But they said they would not give me any medication unless I brought the cham in and paid an additional $76 for an examination. It is really worth the extra money to get CB because you don't have to spend all the money bringing it to the vet.

 

[merumontanus]

No offence to you, but its no wonder your WC'S are dyeing if your not taking them to the vet. I would highly recommend taking your Meru and Rudis to the vet as soon as you can.

I could not disagree more. There are a number of people who keep and breed Trioceros species successfully without taking them to the vet. A trip as such when an animal needs privacy and stability to acclimate may be counterproductive, especially when the animal does not require emergency care or when an experienced chameleon veterinarian (not just general "exotics" vet) is not available.

On the other hand, fecals are important, but this can be done without stressing out the animal by transporting it. What is the benefit of a trip to the vet, other than for excessive handling, X-rays, and an often-erroneous diagnosis?

Don't get me wrong-- I am not diminishing the value of professional animal medicine; on the contrary. A qualified, medical opinion and general examination may mean the difference between success and failure, but let's not generalize and make blanket statements regarding this practice and chameleons.

Now, regarding the chameleon in question. Mt. Meru Jackson's chameleons are notorious for (what may appear to us) quick declines in appetite-- this may be due, as it has been said, due to improper thermoregulation, food boredom, stress, dehydration, or pathology. I would begin by evaluating each of these things in a process of elimination.

Check and double-check your husbandry (lighting, temperature, gut-loads, photoperiod, cage positioning, supplementation, etc).

1. Is there a proper temperature gradient in the cage?
2. Does the animal drink regularly and/or is the relative humidity appropriate?
3. Is the animal being offered a varied diet?
4. Is there a lot of traffic near its enclosure? Has his behavior changed recently?
5. Is he actually losing considerable weight?

All of these things are important, as is the issue of potential (and likely) parasites. These animals live harmoniously with parasite loads in the wild and depend on plenty of varied food, optimal environmental parameters, and the acceptable levels of stress to maintain a healthy immune system. Bringing them into captivity (and the difficult days or weeks spent in transit, from collector to distributor to owner) may prove to be too much for these lizards by the time they find themselves in your home, so their immune systems are compromised and parasites must be managed. This is not always the case, and often times, deparasitation may lead to death as the weak animal may no longer properly dispose of the dying and decomposing parasites-- leading to systemic toxicity.

This is where a fecal becomes so important-- you can take the fresh sample to most vets (or even forum members) who will perform a float. Not all parasitic infestations are visible through these tests, and certain protozoa may require a blood sample. Once again, the process of elimination comes in.

Hope this helps,

Fabián

 

[ciafardo 4]

How far along do you think the gravid rudis is mine usually stop eating a week before they drop their litter.

 

[CNorton]

I could not disagree more. There are a number of people who keep and breed Trioceros species successfully without taking them to the vet. A trip as such when an animal needs privacy and stability to acclimate may be counterproductive, especially when the animal does not require emergency care or when an experienced chameleon veterinarian (not just general "exotics" vet) is not available.

On the other hand, fecals are important, but this can be done without stressing out the animal by transporting it. What is the benefit of a trip to the vet, other than for excessive handling, X-rays, and an often-erroneous diagnosis?

Right on. I completely agree and have experienced this with two WC deaths due mostly to my faith in a vet.

For me I do 3 things: Fecal, Complete Privacy, & Temp/Humidity.

If you cannot offer more than just crickets, you're gonna have difficulty.

 

[adamkwas]

I was not complying that the chameleons need surgical procedures, LOL. What I meant, was to do as CNorton said.

By vet, I meant fecal.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,

Adam

 

[jadeaudio]

How far along do you think the gravid rudis is mine usually stop eating a week before they drop their litter.

I have no idea on the Rudis I bought her that way. She was eating great the 1st couple of weeks. Now she hasn't eaten, but she is sure crapping a lot. I bought her the same time as the Mt. Meru since the shipping wouldn't be anymore and she was only $35. That's after telling myself I would never buy females again after I lost the carpet. She looks good, so I am not sure. She did shed a couple of weeks ago and she still is fat.

What type of other food do you guys provide? She's a pretty small cham so not sure what else I can try besides small dubia. I have some of those. My Meru has had hornworms, but will not touch superworms. Give me some suggestions on other small things I can buy.

 

[merumontanus]

I was not complying that the chameleons need surgical procedures, LOL.

Fair enough. Cheers

What type of other food do you guys provide?

Jackson's chameleons are very attracted to flying insects and even arachnids. Mine get flies (I get my larvae from Grubco), for which you can find lots of tutorials on how to hatch them and keep them.

Fly Larvae

They are easily gutloaded and the chameleons respond amazingly. As for spiders, they must be of an appropriate size, and from a pesticide-free area (I would try flies before you venture into spider hunting). You can also setup a moth blanket at night and catch plenty of small flying insects to stimulate its appetite.

Moths

Most importantly, don't overfeed. If he's not eating, be sure there are no insects left in the enclosure, skip a day, and try again by introducing one or two insects. No more. If he eats them, offer another one or two. Skip another day and offer small quantities again. This should keep a healthy appetite.

Cheers,

Fabián

 

[jadeaudio]

Sounds great I appeciate the info. I bought flies before from Mantisplace. I bought some blue bottle pupae for a picky eating Sengal I had that would only eat flies and the day the the flies arrived the Senegal died. He is eating crickets just not as much as he was eating before. I'm going to get a fecal, but just curious as I really like this guy. He is very active and I want to make sure he stays healthy. I never thought about gut loading the flies. My only concern is housing them and dispersing them into the cage.

I do have a lot of spiders and moths around my house, but I do not feel safe about feeding them to my cham. I don't know where they have been, so I am not going to take that risk.

Also what temps do you like to keep your Meru's at?

 

[merumontanus]

Also what temps do you like to keep your Meru's at?

Mine are kept in a cool room, with ambient temperatures during the day varying between 68-73 throughout the year (around 75 during the summer months, when the basking lights only come on in the morning for a couple of hours). They are all housed individually, except for a small group of neonates, each with 20 watt, halogen spots producing a basking temperature above 85F.

Tonight, the temperature in the room is 61F, and will fall even lower in the winter nights.

Fabián

 

[jadeaudio]

OK just brought a fresh feces into the vet and got a fecal done. He has hook worms. Does anyone know how or what medicine is used to get rid of them? He won't prescribe me anything unless I pay $76 additional and bring t he cham in.

 

[Jerm]

The vet needs to weigh the cham to get a proper dosage for him. He will probably prescribe flagyl or another antiparisitic med. which can only be obtained from a licensed vet. Is he charging you another office visit to bring the cham in? Some vets do that. If that is what it takes to treat the cham and ensure that he stays healthy, I would recommend doing it.

 

[jadeaudio]

I knew people would reply saying to take it to the vet. They want to charge me $76 for an office visit in order to prescribe me medication. This place does not specialize in reptiles, so I don't want to waste the money. They said the fecal has hook worms and I asked if there was anything else and they said no. I read that most vets will prescribe pancur which I already have. I bought it a while ago from LLLReptile. I read to get the powder form, but I have the paste form. I want to know how much I can give him. A little smear on a cricket per day? I am not asking for a guarantee from anyone. Just an educated or experienced guess. Obviously anyone who has a Mt Meru Jackson will know an approximate weight. They are small.

 

[ciafardo 4]

I knew people would reply saying to take it to the vet. They want to charge me $76 for an office visit in order to prescribe me medication. This place does not specialize in reptiles, so I don't want to waste the money. They said the fecal has hook worms and I asked if there was anything else and they said no. I read that most vets will prescribe pancur which I already have. I bought it a while ago from LLLReptile. I read to get the powder form, but I have the paste form. I want to know how much I can give him. A little smear on a cricket per day? I am not asking for a guarantee from anyone. Just an educated or experienced guess. Obviously anyone who has a Mt Meru Jackson will know an approximate weight. They are small.

There are plenty of books and such to tell you the dosage to weight ratio you really don't need the vet if your sure you can handle it.