SoCaliRocker
New Member
Here's some pics...
The Best Hybrids! :)
- Thread starter Jose Velazquez
- Start date
Ulrich
New Member
Great Chams here. I am pretty new to Panthers. Used to deal with Veiled and Mt. Meru. Now I have an Ambanja and I love him but the pure bred vs cross ideology gets a bit on my nerves. I went through some stress as I felt I have to classify him. In fact he is a sweet darling. Feels like a pet rather than a Cham. And that is enough to me.
From this thread I have seen more stunning chams than from the pure locale search anywhere else. In nature crosses are usually stronger anyways.
As we don't really conserve in the pet world, why not go for it and create Chams with stars and stripes - Might be possible....no?
From this thread I have seen more stunning chams than from the pure locale search anywhere else. In nature crosses are usually stronger anyways.
As we don't really conserve in the pet world, why not go for it and create Chams with stars and stripes - Might be possible....no?
ibdragons
Established Member
What about the racism from other chameleons? U should put urself in the hybrid baby chams place other lil pure chams are gonna mock him cuz his dad is an ambilobe and his mom an ambanja?.
Personaly I'm against it 100% bcuz in the process of trying make a nice colored cham what happens to the dull ones ,these chams have a lot of babies. Or what if someone can't take care if them the fastest way to sell a female is if u say its pure then some one wants to breed gets one of these hybrid females.and baaam there u have it a tainted line.please vote no to crossing locales.
Thank u. David
. Personaly I'm against it 100% bcuz in the process of trying make a nice colored cham what happens to the dull ones ,these chams have a lot of babies. Or what if someone can't take care if them the fastest way to sell a female is if u say its pure then some one wants to breed gets one of these hybrid females.and baaam there u have it a tainted line.please vote no to crossing locales.
Thank u. David
Ulrich
New Member
What about the racism from other chameleons? U should put urself in the hybrid baby chams place other lil pure chams are gonna mock him cuz his dad is an ambilobe and his mom an ambanja?
Personaly I'm against it 100% bcuz in the process of trying make a nice colored cham what happens to the dull ones ,these chams have a lot of babies. Or what if someone can't take care if them the fastest way to sell a female is if u say its pure then some one wants to breed gets one of these hybrid females.and baaam there u have it a tainted line.please vote no to crossing locales.
Thank u. David
Conversation is for Zoo's (which I would prefer them to do). Pet Industry is for Creation. We are all pet industry, dealing with designed pets and environments, no matter how close they are to nature. We all love our Chams and want them to thrive but they are still pets and in a state of artificiality. In panthers we ask for the sire and the locale, while even nature does not do that. Maybe we have discovered that crosses are more stunning and superior - Mendel's law, you know. As we design them anyways, why not create new locales: Manhattan locale, London locale etc.
ibdragons
Established Member
This conversation goes for all who want a chameleon if u go buy a cham and its not what u thought it was wouldnt u be upset? This is my opinion not to disrespect anyone .as long as u don't lie to the buyer,when I started with chams someone tried selling me an ambilobe pure ,if it wasn't for his friend that unsuspecting told me it was ambanja ambilobe I was going to pick him up that day .if there was honest people then there wouldn't b an issue ,all that conversation is for zoos ill let u have that one. If I offended anyone I aopologize .I respect all my cham forums brothers n sisters I'm just ticked at un honest sellers,
ne .as long as u don't lie to the buyer,when I started with chams someone tried selling me an ambilobe pure ,if it wasn't for his friend that unsuspecting told me it was ambanja ambilobe I was going to pick him up that day .if there was honest people then there wouldn't b an issue ,all that conversation is for zoos ill let u have that one. If I offended anyone I aopologize .I respect all my cham forums brothers n sisters I'm just ticked at un honest sellers,
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
And pure locale breeders don't do that either, David? How many times does someone send a female Ambanja as a Faly (making 2-3x more from the sale) and taint the line? Dishonesty is found everywhere, whether you are breeding crosses or pures.
Also, when have you ever seen a dull-colored panther? I still haven't seen one that I found ugly, and I'm pretty picky!
In my case, with my clutch of crosses (who are going to be Faly x Nosy Be x Ambanja x Ambilobe) I have always been very honest with what the two parents are. And knowing this, I still have over half the young reserved by people who love my male and would love a pet panther with a different look from what's out there. I have both males and females reserved. And I have room to house what females do not sell for several months while I do find them good homes. When they do go to their new homes, they are leaving with a pedigree sheet like you would get with an AKC puppy, with information on the parents and grandparents, so that their genetics are well documented and available to the new owner, in case they ever want to sell the young or breed them. This is being a responsible breeder. I trust the people that have reserved young so far, I know that they care about being responsible people and don't expect them to be dishonest down the line. But we can't help the bad apples, there are always crappy people out there that ruin it for the rest of us.
Ulrich is right too, only zoos do conservation (not conversation) work. None of the animals that any of us breed privately are ever going to be reintroduced into Madagascar and contribute to conservation.
Also, when have you ever seen a dull-colored panther? I still haven't seen one that I found ugly, and I'm pretty picky!
In my case, with my clutch of crosses (who are going to be Faly x Nosy Be x Ambanja x Ambilobe) I have always been very honest with what the two parents are. And knowing this, I still have over half the young reserved by people who love my male and would love a pet panther with a different look from what's out there. I have both males and females reserved. And I have room to house what females do not sell for several months while I do find them good homes. When they do go to their new homes, they are leaving with a pedigree sheet like you would get with an AKC puppy, with information on the parents and grandparents, so that their genetics are well documented and available to the new owner, in case they ever want to sell the young or breed them. This is being a responsible breeder. I trust the people that have reserved young so far, I know that they care about being responsible people and don't expect them to be dishonest down the line. But we can't help the bad apples, there are always crappy people out there that ruin it for the rest of us.
Ulrich is right too, only zoos do conservation (not conversation) work. None of the animals that any of us breed privately are ever going to be reintroduced into Madagascar and contribute to conservation.
lslcronk
New Member
Amen Olimpia...I agree with all of this 100%!
Soo...this thread is for PICTURES of CROSSES...if you dont like them, you dont have one so you really have nothing to add...the discussion of pure vs. "evil" is in many other threads. I LOVE my cross and would love to see pics of more!
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
Well, since no one else is posting photos, I'll go again. Technically, this guy was supposed to be an Ambilobe but I think he was anything but. I've had breeders tell me they suspect he was a Tamatave x Nosy be or Ambilobe x Nosy be, but certainly heavily mixed with Nosy.
He used to fire up with powder - almost white - bars.
He used to fire up with powder - almost white - bars.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Olimpia - lovely looking animals.
And you're quite right. Private individuals are not conservationists.
And you're quite right. Private individuals are not conservationists.
SoCaliRocker
New Member
Olimpia, really stunning!
lisagr07
Avid Member
Well, since no one else is posting photos, I'll go again. Technically, this guy was supposed to be an Ambilobe but I think he was anything but. I've had breeders tell me they suspect he was a Tamatave x Nosy be or Ambilobe x Nosy be, but certainly heavily mixed with Nosy.
He used to fire up with powder - almost white - bars.
Oh my gosh!!!!!! He this guy one of yours Olimpia? Whsts his name, he is gorgeous to say the least!!!!!!!!!
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
Thank you Lisa! Yes he was, he died mysteriously last year when I moved. I then had several issues with the chameleons getting infections and eye issues so I suspect that there was something in the new apartment that was making them ill. It's been months since I had any issues but whatever it was, we weren't able to identify it. His name was Nautilus.
lisagr07
Avid Member
Im sooo sorry Olimpia, I had no idea he was gone, I probably read it when it happened but it's slipped my mind... He was a beautiful boy!!!
I have 2 questions if you dont mind... Where did he come from, do you know who his sire was? Thanks.
Hoj
Friendly Grasshopper
Awsome chams guys and gals. I think sometimes the crosses are even BETTER!!!
So I am going to be xing my pure faly female with my pure nosy be male and cant wait to see what i get.
And thats taking 2 top dollar animals and making mutts LoL but I think they will be awsome!!
So I am going to be xing my pure faly female with my pure nosy be male and cant wait to see what i get.
And thats taking 2 top dollar animals and making mutts LoL but I think they will be awsome!!
