The Concerns About the Recent Cameroon Imports

[Chase]

Wish I had been aware of the quads and montiums coming in ahead of time. I would have made some different chameleon purchase choices in November and December. I bred both in years past.

Do they come in about the same time every year?

Laurie- size is a two edge sword. On the one hand they may not be ready to breed, on the other they may do better long term and be around longer for breeding than the large ones. Unless it is just low body weight, then that really is sad but you may be surprised how quickly they can bounce back once the survivors are de-parisitized and hydrated.

Considering the fact that these animals are exported less often, their condition in the photos is very dissapointing. Seems like with fewer going out, the exporters could take better care of them. These have obviously been in the hands of an ignoramus somewhere in Africa too long...

I think this is the first shipment in 4 years. I got mine at the very beginning of 2011 (Jan 15 to be exact). I'm not sure before then, but I do know that at least in this case they came in around the same time.

I picked up 2.3 peacocks. I believe they are all T. perreti, but not 100 percent sure. Too busy to really try to figure it out right now. Just trying to get them plenty of food and water. I'm dealing with one sleepy one that is getting special attention. It is trying to give up, but I'm not letting it.

I'll get some photos up when I can. With holiday business rush and other commitments I'm doing 80 hour weeks right now.

Is the male you thought was T. serratus looking more like perreti now? I'm crossing my fingers for that sleeper! Goof luck with it.

Chase

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Well the female I got from the western part of the shipment (thanks Bill) is doing fine. She was the second best of the bunch. So if you look at the healthy female he posted which is a tad rough you'll get a good feel for the one I have. I expect her to survive but with such a heavy load of parasites I really won't know until about 30 days go by even with standard treatments like Panacur.

I've seen quite a few of the animals being sold to retailers or random individuals, those of us who like Bill said put up thousands of dollars as a large collective were not taken care of very well. Bill's already lost one, and had a female that was actually a male (leaving him with just one female instead of his planned 3.3 and essentially he's screwed). Laurie's plans for breeding have been pretty well set back and she put in a lot of effort and money. I plan on sending her a pair from any clutches I get next year just to help.

Bill those red critters are a type of chigger that causes massive damage to the tissue under the skin layer. I've seen em before. Listerine on a Q-tip will kill them and rub a little under all four arm pits and the chin.


I've seen this seller sell a lot of high dollar rarer types, I won't buy from him despite being in the market for some projects. The real sad thing is if I had waited and gone it alone I could have bought from retailers much nicer Quads. I had quite a few folks send me pictures or ask me about how to care for imports and what to do for them. There were some really nice animals imported. When a bunch of dedicated chameleon keepers all get together, make a huge dollar purchase for "the best picks" and we get the B animals or worse...that kind of lesson needs to be shared so others can avoid it or learn from it.

The worst thing I used to see back in the 80's and 90's was how the chameleons were imported then sold off as is to whoever. I'd really hate it if we haven't learned anything from those lessons and we just go back to business as usual. The lesson I learned is never buy a second time from a seller that does business that way. I'm still hoping the seller does right by Bill and Laurie but...

 

[jajeanpierre]

Bill those red critters are a type of chigger that causes massive damage to the tissue under the skin layer. I've seen em before. Listerine on a Q-tip will kill them and rub a little under all four arm pits and the chin.

They look like a kind of tick. Rubbing alcohol on a Q-Tip?

 

[Chase]

I am really curious who all got some Trioceros montium, Trioceros pfefferi and Trioceros cristatus

Chase

 

[jajeanpierre]

I am really curious who all got some Trioceros montium, Trioceros pfefferi and Trioceros cristatus

Chase

I think there are still a lot of them. I thought I saw a big Reptibreeze behind the counter that had montium and who knows what else in it.

 

[Chase]

I think there are still a lot of them. I thought I saw a big Reptibreeze behind the counter that had montium and who knows what else in it.

It's a shame because they have a bad reputation for acclimating but they're awesome

Chase

 

[OldChamKeeper]

They look like a kind of tick. Rubbing alcohol on a Q-Tip?

I had them sent to a lab back around '91 which was when I learned about them. I thought they were a mite but the damage they caused was so disproportional to their size we sent them in to the Herp vet we used. I do not remember the latin name for them but they were a type of chigger and Listerine killed them nicely on the surface. If they laid their eggs under the skin ....Baytril was needed.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Is the male you thought was T. serratus looking more like perreti now? I'm crossing my fingers for that sleeper! Goof luck with it.

Chase

Yes, I think it is perreti, but I have one orange female that I suspect to be serratus. I'm starting to think they sent 1.4. Like I said, I haven't had much time to spend with them. Just enough to attend to basic needs and give the sleepy one extra attention. It is perking up now after heavy drinking.

Anybody ever see an orange/brown variation of T. perreti? She looks the same as the others just orange.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Here's a photo of her.

 

[Chase]

Here's a photo of her.

Mike, that is a hard one. Does she have the parietal crest on her head that would divide her casque

Chase

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Yes, I think it is perreti, but I have one orange female that I suspect to be serratus. I'm starting to think they sent 1.4. Like I said, I haven't had much time to spend with them. Just enough to attend to basic needs and give the sleepy one extra attention. It is perking up now after heavy drinking.

Anybody ever see an orange/brown variation of T. perreti? She looks the same as the others just orange.

I have seen pictures of Orangish/Brown color ones however just assumed it was a natural variation within the species or gravid coloration. Furcifer bifidus is another chameleon species that shows those extreme contrasting types of coloration males and females can be orangeish brown or bright green.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mike Fisher]

Mike, that is a hard one. Does she have the parietal crest on her head that would divide her casque

Chase

Nope......

 

[Mike Fisher]

I have seen pictures of Orangish/Brown color ones however just assumed it was a natural variation within the species or gravid coloration.

That's what I was thinking. When she fires up it is quite striking. Bright orange with blue dots.

 

[Chase]

Nope......

Then I'd be inclined to say perreti. And her gular crest is not as large as I've seen in pictures of serratus

Chase

 

[GCash]

Yes, I think it is perreti, but I have one orange female that I suspect to be serratus. I'm starting to think they sent 1.4. Like I said, I haven't had much time to spend with them. Just enough to attend to basic needs and give the sleepy one extra attention. It is perking up now after heavy drinking.

Anybody ever see an orange/brown variation of T. perreti? She looks the same as the others just orange.

Interesting. T. deremensis also shows this orange-brown variation as well. I purchased a young female from Backwater Reptiles that started out green and went orange-brown as she got some size on her. He also had another female deremensis at some point he posted about being the same color variation. Then, a third case when I acquired a CBB male from Robert Shewfelt, in the parental photos, his Dam had the same coloration. When I asked if he had any ideas about it, Robert said she was green while gravid and went orange-brown after deposition. So we're guessing its cyclic for now.

I also got some quadricornis, montium and cristatus pairs/groups from this shipment as well. Two female montiums seem as perfect as a WC could get. The others have issues as the rest but are coming along and getting over their "sleepiness" also. My third montium female arrived so bad I didn't think she was going to make it, but I got her perked up enough to lay 10 good looking eggs that I found this morning. Now she's looking beat again. And the roller coaster ride continues. Good luck to all who are in the same boat with this shipment!

 

[Vegas Chad]

before I even asked - I knew who did this. Any import will get bad looking animals - just the way it is. However it sucks that he broke his agreement to send nice animals to the people that would do the best with them, trying to do a great thing; getting CBB chameleons into the market. He made the call to send the rough and already sold chameleons first, keeping the ones that would not die on him to be sold to everybody else.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Bill & Laurie, anything new on how the animals are doing or if the seller has returned your calls to make good on this?

 

[johnnyev]

I know nothing really about the import/export of chameleons, but would have thought in this day & age that the way they are exported would have improved ten fold compared to years ago.
Have shipping methods improved that much, or is it just down to the condition of individual animals, prior to export? Or the fact that WC chameleons just don't travel well?

 

[Mike Fisher]

or is it just down to the condition of individual animals, prior to export? Or the fact that WC chameleons just don't travel well?

No, it is how they are treated before and during export. They are all bagged up together, housed together, and held that way until they are shipped. Note all of the bite marks and scratches. It is animal abuse plain and simple.

 

[johnnyev]

So the answer to my question is things haven't changed much then
Thanks Mike, i suspected that might be the case.