The evils of mealworms

[Lennoncham]

So I've never bred mealworms and haven't fed any for years and years. Will they readily breed without doing anything special(as you would with superworms)

yupe. You can literally have all stages of life in the same container. Which can be a real PITA to seperate.

 

[jamest0o0]

Well if I got superworms to reproduce in 1 colony, mealworms are prob much easier. Maybe I'll start a bin of them for the hell of it

 

[MissSkittles]

My leopard gecko’s are the only ones I give mealworms to and as they can’t eat them quickly enough, I’ve inadvertently been breeding them. I just separate the pupae from the worms in a separate small bin, they turn into beetles and they do their thing.

 

[nightanole]

Now if i could just get the supers to stop snacking on the pupae before i get a chance to find them...

Do normal meal worms do this too?

WOOHOO a pupae, that took like 3-4 weeks of prep, and like half its face is chewed off...

 

[Lennoncham]

Now if i could just get the supers to stop snacking on the pupae before i get a chance to find them...

Do normal meal worms do this too?

WOOHOO a pupae, that took like 3-4 weeks of prep, and like half its face is chewed off...

I haven’t seen the actual worms eat the pupae but the beetles will if you don’t provide a source of moisture.

 

[DocZ]

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/gutloading-chameleon-feeders/

Good listen on nutrition. They talk specifically about mealworms and chitin in the chameleons diet as well

 

[kinyonga]

Definitely could be the source of the Vitamin A. From what I’ve read, most insects convert small amounts to supply to retinal for their compound eyes, but do not store any pREformed A

from Mader’s false katydids, migratory locusts, termites, silkworms, and 4 wild caught lepidopteran larvae are the only insects that are not Vitamin A deficient

Trying to find out more about this. If the insect is a "meat" eater it use make more sense to me that they had prEformed vitamin A...but some might have the enzymes needed to convert carotenes.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Now if i could just get the supers to stop snacking on the pupae before i get a chance to find them...

Do normal meal worms do this too?

WOOHOO a pupae, that took like 3-4 weeks of prep, and like half its face is chewed off...

That's why the larva have to sneek off privately to pupate. Separate them into separate cups/compartments and they'll pupate much faster, and not get eaten.
breeding superworms

 

[kinyonga]

Is was interesting...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352364616300013

 

[QuinnieLeeBlu]

I still don’t know if i’m going to be feeding meal worms

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Is was interesting...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352364616300013

This is one of those cases where I think some context, comment or input from you would be helpful.
No idea where you're coming from.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I still don’t know if i’m going to be feeding meal worms

Then don't. They're certainly not necessary—and no-one is suggesting them as a staple—just another option for variety.
Just trying to debunk some of the misinformation.

 

[kinyonga]

@Klyde O'Scope ...hope this helps...

I was unaware that so many people have been eating insects intentionally around the world. So far I've only eaten chocolate covered bees and the chocolate kind of covered up the real flavour and texture of the bees. It was quite interesting to read the part on what they tasted like.

I was glad to see the nutritional information of the various insects. Most papers I've read haven't given a very good breakdown of the vitamins and minerals or even the calories of more than a couple of insects.

"Escamoles and eggs of the Formicidae family could serve as a good source of vitamins A, D and E." ...this is making me wonder why they have so much vitamin A compared to others. Why do they need it?

"It should be noted that the content of vitamins and minerals in wild edible insects is seasonal and in the case of farm bred species it can be controlled via feed"...something I hadn't thought about before was that the wild insects vitamins and minerals would vary seasonally.

 

[JacksJill]

I don't feed mealworms. I don't doubt feeding one or two now and then is safe maybe even possibly beneficial. I'm just not going to waste space on them when I have supers available.

The chitin question reminds me of when pet food was analysed for protein content and some manufacturers would include beaks and feet in the ingredients. They contain protein but it isn't digestible protein or useful for pets, it's indigestible cartilage. I read above what some experts think possible. I know many used to feed them back in the day with crickets as they where all that was available. Yes they can be fed in moderation.

I dislike the idea of new keepers adopting these as a primary feeder out of convenience. I think it is a dangerous path.

My personal experience has affected my opinions. I saw a female panther who ate 8 supers quickly vomit them up and die. No necropsy was performed but it has affected my use of those type of worms. I limit smaller chams to one and larger to 3 max per feeding.

 

[QuinnieLeeBlu]

Then don't. They're certainly not necessary—and no-one is suggesting them as a staple—just another option for variety.
Just trying to debunk some of the misinformation.

what should i use instead of meal worms

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

what should i use instead of meal worms

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I was unaware that so many people have been eating insects intentionally around the world.

Wow, it surprises me to read you say that! I recall citing something about that not too long ago that included facts & figures, but danged if I can find it now... In lieu, Wikipedia offers these:
Insects as food
Entomophagy
Man Eating Bugs: The Art and Science of Eating Insects
The Eat-A-Bug Cookbook

And for those who dare, a general search: people eating insects

So far I've only eaten chocolate covered bees

Then you're one up one me!

Anyone remember these?

"It should be noted that the content of vitamins and minerals in wild edible insects is seasonal and in the case of farm bred species it can be controlled via feed"...something I hadn't thought about before was that the wild insects vitamins and minerals would vary seasonally.

Is this surprising? IME, the same goes with domesticated livestock; summer beef, chicken, & cows milk always tasted better (to me) than winter (fed). For better or worse, that's changed with commercial/industrial farming.

 

[DocZ]

I was unaware that so many people have been eating insects intentionally around the world. So far I've only eaten chocolate covered bees and the chocolate kind of covered up the real flavour and texture of the bees. It was quite interesting to read the part on what they tasted like.

I was glad to see the nutritional information of the various insects. Most papers I've read haven't given a very good breakdown of the vitamins and minerals or even the calories of more than a couple of insects.

"Escamoles and eggs of the Formicidae family could serve as a good source of vitamins A, D and E." ...this is making me wonder why they have so much vitamin A compared to others. Why do they need it?

"It should be noted that the content of vitamins and minerals in wild edible insects is seasonal and in the case of farm bred species it can be controlled via feed"...something I hadn't thought about before was that the wild insects vitamins and minerals would vary seasonally.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the nutritional breakdown was interesting too. This also shows chitin content to not be higher than the other bugs we feed

 

[DocZ]

I don't feed mealworms. I don't doubt feeding one or two now and then is safe maybe even possibly beneficial. I'm just not going to waste space on them when I have supers available.

The chitin question reminds me of when pet food was analysed for protein content and some manufacturers would include beaks and feet in the ingredients. They contain protein but it isn't digestible protein or useful for pets, it's indigestible cartilage. I read above what some experts think possible. I know many used to feed them back in the day with crickets as they where all that was available. Yes they can be fed in moderation.

I dislike the idea of new keepers adopting these as a primary feeder out of convenience. I think it is a dangerous path.

My personal experience has affected my opinions. I saw a female panther who ate 8 supers quickly vomit them up and die. No necropsy was performed but it has affected my use of those type of worms. I limit smaller chams to one and larger to 3 max per feeding.

I totally agree they should be used in moderation, and I feel the same way about all of the bugs on the list. If you focus on one at every feeding you’ll only be passing the benefits of that certain bug

I think the important part is to not spread misinformation. All of us will rely on our personal experiences and biases to make decisions, but scientific evidence should be how we guide our keeping as much as possible. Anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence available. Due to the low commercial value of reptiles, high level scientific evidence will probably never be available, but we should carefully use all the scientific evidence we have available

 

[QuinnieLeeBlu]

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thank you