The reason why you should never use substrate.

[Carlton]

I think the above three posts do a great job of summarizing my view on using substrate in chameleon enclosures. The mantra about substrate use is very similar to the one about having to keep chameleons in all screen enclosures and that glass is bad. These rules are very broad strokes that simply do not account for any variation between species, the immediate environment of the enclosure, or the particular husbandry capabilities/circumstances for each keeper. While they may make things simpler for the average beginner keeper working with a panther or veiled, there are many situations where I would say these rules are wrong more often than not.

I agree Chris...never say never. I have used substrate in a few montane setups, but it was done very deliberately and monitored for fungi, molds, bad drainage, etc. For some chams a substrate didn't really provide much advantage so I didn't bother. For others it was fine as long as it didn't present an ingestion risk such as fibrous bark. Sometimes the substrate reduced cage maintenance but sometimes it created more.

Still, if I was to advise a newbie on an appropriate cage setup for a cham most likely I'd suggest avoiding the typical substrates they are likely to find in the local pet shop. Too much can happen they would not know to watch for.

So, just like the classic screen cage argument we need to consider the audience before stating a die hard ruling.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

In my experience, I have had a problem with substrate with multiple species, in multiple types of enclosures. For my cham keeping, it is a hard rule... NO SUBSTRATE.

People always want to add substrate to make it look more real, just let it go. If it poses a possible problem to my animal, I avoid it. No chance in risking our animals lives. That's all, sorry for the rant, but this comes up so much

 

[RyU]

In my experience, I have had a problem with substrate with multiple species, in multiple types of enclosures. For my cham keeping, it is a hard rule... NO SUBSTRATE.

People always want to add substrate to make it look more real, just let it go. If it poses a possible problem to my animal, I avoid it. No chance in risking our animals lives. That's all, sorry for the rant, but this comes up so much

These are pretty much my thoughts. Although I don't have as much experience as many in these forums, I have had my share of problems. That said, it's hard to ignore advice from experienced keepers on these forums which I've gleaned most of my knowledge from.

I do want to try adding substrate to a single setup and see how it goes. For me, adding substrate will solve many problems and is aesthetically pleasing to boot.

I agree that I should not have used the word NEVER. I normally don't use terminology like this, and I was pretty upset at what happened to that chameleon as I had advised the owners about it in the past. My chosen words were too limiting.

 

[Mike Fisher]

People always want to add substrate to make it look more real, just let it go.

I don't use it for "looks" as the only time I'm in my cham room is for feeding and maintenance and don't usually just look at enclosures all day.

I actually lost a prized chameleon to "no substrate". How you ask? She was a gravid female that got trapped in a corner in a head down position behind a potted plant and smothered from pressure from her egg mass.

Contrast that to never losing one to substrate impaction, the choice is pretty clear to me. Sorry, I must ignore your well meant advice to "just let it go" no matter how loud you yell in caps.

 

[fluxlizard]

I use 17" wide shallow pots for my plants, in cages that are mostly 2' wide.

I sometimes get nice moss growing on the surface of the soil.

So I guess I am providing a significant area of potted substrate.

 

[Carlton]

These are pretty much my thoughts. Although I don't have as much experience as many in these forums, I have had my share of problems. That said, it's hard to ignore advice from experienced keepers on these forums which I've gleaned most of my knowledge from.

I do want to try adding substrate to a single setup and see how it goes. For me, adding substrate will solve many problems and is aesthetically pleasing to boot.

I agree that I should not have used the word NEVER. I normally don't use terminology like this, and I was pretty upset at what happened to that chameleon as I had advised the owners about it in the past. My chosen words were too limiting.

I have used that recycled paper pulp bedding (Care Fresh or Cage Fresh...can never remember the name) successfully in my T. deremensis cage. I was living in a super dry climate and had a lot of trouble maintaining the humidity level this setup required, even stuffed full of live foliage and covered sides. I wanted to try this because it would supposedly disintegrate to powder if swallowed, was bacteria-free to start with, and it would absorb and slowly release moisture over time. I put it down several inches thick, sprayed it down well, and tamped the surface so it wasn't loose and fluffy, hoping loose feeders wouldn't burrow out of sight. Scattered cleaned dry magnolia leaves on the surface. They are very rot resistant. My plants were still in pots with saucers on top so they were a bit easier to maintain. I found the bedding didn't get funky or moldy for quite a long time. When it did I dumped it in the garden and put in a new batch. Didn't have any problems with the chams either, but I was tuned in for that anyway.