The Truth

[Chamero]

Nice Post and well said!

Ive actually been thinking of doing a post similar to this. One about how resilient these things actually are. They can endure much more than I was made to think- then i remembered...they are reptiles!!

Also, the ones that do know these animals very well, probably also learned by some trial and error. Im sure many small chameleons have perished so people can say with certainty things they "know" about chameleons.

 

[fluxlizard]

well said

 

[DavidBuchan]

Everything said there is the truth - but I do think from what I've seen on this forum there is quite a bit of misinformation in the pet trade in America. I don't know about any of the brand names and I've never heard of Ampiskiana either. Chameleons would be no harder to keep than an anole if they were sold with uv tubes and mistkings etc. as standard. It seems they are often sold with very substandard setups on a regular basis. There really isn't anything controversial in anything you said, so if that's a venting you are obviously just a pretty chilled out guy

 

[lisa h]

Lies! All lies!

Oh, wait. Upon further examination it appears you have some excellent points. I don't think you're supposed to tell anyone though

 

[suzi]

Hey Ryan, I am waiting for part 2 and 3 of this thread. Part 2 being......, "the whole truth" and three being...,"nothing but the truth"

 

[DeremensisBlue]

Dude. You know we are going to have to send the secret order of warrior monks after you for leaking this. The inner circle is not amused.

 

[nonnatus]

Being that they are actually reptiles, and that reptiles have been around in one form or another for a LOT longer than us namby pamby hoomans, I'd second that they'd have to be a fairly hardy bunch of critters.

It's the taking them from their most desirable habitat and placing them in cages in our homes that may cause the problems, though most everyone here seems to be pretty successful at that...

 

[antithesis123]

I wont let my chameleons read this!

 

[Olimpia]

They really are so much hardier than most people give them credit for. I completely agree with you. They don't need to be babied to the extent that some people do it.

 

[pssh]

Ahaha. Now you are assuming that most people have that much common sense (and about lizards no less!) Sure, they are (for the most part) hardier than people make them sound, BUT they are pretty easy to kill too. I know my rescue sulcata has been through a lot more than my chameleons could ever deal with. I figure it's made out to be this way because it's just easier to scare new owners into good husbandry. Just my $0.02

 

[ataraxia]

I don't think I am supposed to tell people this.



Chameleons are not that sensitive that a little harmless experimentation is going to send them spiraling to their death.

please explain...

It is not the end of the world when Petsmart gets a chameleon in for sale.

truth, have you seen a dead chameleon in there cage? i have...still not the end of the world but it was to that chameleon :/

Even though you have almost no experience you can breed no problem and learn along the way.

cool.

Just because someone says something works does not mean thats the only thing that works.

Good point!

You can feed a chameleon meal worms and not worry about impaction any more than a superworm.

Very true.

Chameleons are no harder to take care of than most other reptiles.

harder.... no but they require more of your time than any reptile ive encountered.

and Ampiskiana does not exist at least with the spelling used.

I am sure there are more but this should be enough to start the hate mail. jk

some truth and some not so much. if you dont mind me asking. how long have you been into reptiles and how long have you been keeping chameleons and what species?

 

[fluxlizard]

Ahaha. Now you are assuming that most people have that much common sense (and about lizards no less!) Sure, they are (for the most part) hardier than people make them sound, BUT they are pretty easy to kill too. I know my rescue sulcata has been through a lot more than my chameleons could ever deal with. I figure it's made out to be this way because it's just easier to scare new owners into good husbandry. Just my $0.02

You know, that's true in the sense that it takes a lot longer to kill most lizards or other herps.
I just got a sulcata off craigs list about a month ago that would have died long ago had it been a chameleon. It was kept in a 10g tank on reptile bark and fed lettuce for the past 3 years. The owner complained that it hadn't grown in 3 years since they bought it- well duh- it probably had no heat or proper diet. it's shell is very soft and flexible. It now lives outside for the summer with lots of grasses and weeds and greens to eat.

BUT- a healthy captive bred chameleon still isn't more difficult to keep. They just die fast if you screw the husbandry up. Take that sulcata for example- really it has similar uv requirements, it needs proper humidity for good shell growth, and it needs a careful diet- the owner must learn about vegetarian diet, how to balance and provide the proper levels of calcium, phosphorous, protein, fiber, etc. How to base it around grasses and not simply off of fresh leafy greens. Etc.

I would say a chameleon diet overall is simpler- especially for warm loving species.

There should be zillions of big sulcata pets, big iguanas, giant monitors, etc out there in pet owners hands, but they are far and away the exception because the owners don't care for them properly and end up killing them off before they reach adult size. It just takes longer for them to kill them.

So, although I agree that yes, many of the other lizards and herps can last longer when cared for inadequately, I'm not sure I agree that makes them easier to care for...

As for breeding- I think breeding panthers and veileds and a few of the others is far easier than breeding most lizards. All you have to do is care for them reasonably properly and you don't even have to cycle them... The flip side of the coin is that long-term multi-generation breeding seems lacking... But then again, there aren't many leopard gecko or bearded dragon owners who breed multi-generations over 20 years- probably only a dozen or so...

Chameleons are no harder to take care of than most other reptiles.

harder.... no but they require more of your time than any reptile ive encountered.

Really? Are you kidding me?

Care takes me about a minute to feed every day or two. Actually I have no idea how long that takes because I feed lots of lizards, but it isn't even a minute per lizard- I grab a bunch of insects out of a tub, count several into a cup, give it a swirl of calcium and put them in for the chameleon to eat.

now you could argue that caring for the insects adds another 5 or 10 minutes per day (If you are me, and have about a zillion insects), but that would not be unique to chameleon- I feed the same insects to my other lizards so there is no difference in time for chameleons vs the others.

Add another minute to do a quick visual exam of the lizard to make sure it is healthy and appreciate it's beauty for 30 secs or so.

What the heck are you doing that takes so much time?

edit- I guess thinking of babies, those take longer with more visits per day and fussing over them. I hadn't thought of that- only healthy adults... Then again, not sure those require much more time than other baby lizards...

 

[pssh]

I'm not particularly saying that makes other reptiles easier, just that they tend to be hardier (generally.) Scarring other keepers into getting everything perfect seems to work well on this board. Once it's all set up of course they are easy to care for (as would all animals, though I suppose it would depend on the keeper to determine what is difficult and what isn't for themselves.)

My poor little sulcata spent his first 8-9 years in a bare, filthy, 30 gallon tank. He was forced to walk around in his own waste as it was only cleaned once a year or so. He pretty much never had access to water, which I guess wasn't such a big deal since he was pretty much only fed fruits. No calcium, but he did have UVB. However, it was not particularly adequate. I was surprised he could even walk as well as he did when I picked him up!

He has some BAD pyramiding, but with a summer outside, fresh grass all the time, healthy veggies/flowers and cactus, and a few vet visits he is in great health! He hasn't gained any weight yet, but then again, his shell finally got nice and hard at the end of winter and I haven't weighed him since then.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

some truth and some not so much. if you dont mind me asking. how long have you been into reptiles and how long have you been keeping chameleons and what species?

I stand behind all that I wrote and it is truth.

Not sure what good it will do but...

I have kept (most currently still kept) parsonii, panthers, thamnobates, sterfeldi , jacksons, fulleborni, verrucousus, F. Lateralis, and a few others I am forgetting. My first reptile was a panther in the first year and a half I produced over 300.

I also currently keep ball pythons, redfoot tortoises, carpet pythons, leopard geckos, crested geckos, gargoyle geckos, pixi frogs, Aussie bluetonge skinks, pink tongue skinks , uromastyx, a beaded lizard, some day geckos, maddy hognose, western hognose snakes, pictus geckos, Nephurus geckos, viper geckos, diplo and strophurus geckos... lots of reptiles. More than most petshops see.

I have over 250 reptiles currently and that is not counting hatchlings of almost every type of gecko I listed and some of the snakes.

Everything I wrote is the truth and based on my experience.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I stand behind all that I wrote and it is truth.

Not sure what good it will do but...

I have kept (most currently still kept) parsonii, panthers, thamnobates, sterfeldi , jacksons, fulleborni, verrucousus, F. Lateralis, and a few others I am forgetting. My first reptile was a panther in the first year and a half I produced over 300.

I also currently keep ball pythons, redfoot tortoises, carpet pythons, leopard geckos, crested geckos, gargoyle geckos, pixi frogs, Aussie bluetonge skinks, pink tongue skinks , uromastyx, a beaded lizard, some day geckos, maddy hognose, western hognose snakes, pictus geckos, Nephurus geckos, viper geckos, diplo and strophurus geckos... lots of reptiles. Most than most petshops see.

I have over 250 reptiles currently and that is not counting hatchlings of almost every type of gecko I listed and some of the snakes.

Everything I wrote is the truth and based on my experience.

Hope this helps.

oh bearded dragons and a tegu

 

[Vegas Chad]

oh bearded dragons and a tegu

More please...

 

[Ozzie2011]

Oh good lord ......see what you started Ryan LMBO......Long thread!!!

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Oh good lord ......see what you started Ryan LMBO......Long thread!!!

LOL, it happens.

 

[robmd1]

I stand behind all that I wrote and it is truth.

Not sure what good it will do but...

I have kept (most currently still kept) parsonii, panthers, thamnobates, sterfeldi , jacksons, fulleborni, verrucousus, F. Lateralis, and a few others I am forgetting. My first reptile was a panther in the first year and a half I produced over 300.

I also currently keep ball pythons, redfoot tortoises, carpet pythons, leopard geckos, crested geckos, gargoyle geckos, pixi frogs, Aussie bluetonge skinks, pink tongue skinks , uromastyx, a beaded lizard, some day geckos, maddy hognose, western hognose snakes, pictus geckos, Nephurus geckos, viper geckos, diplo and strophurus geckos... lots of reptiles. More than most petshops see.

I have over 250 reptiles currently and that is not counting hatchlings of almost every type of gecko I listed and some of the snakes.

Everything I wrote is the truth and based on my experience.

Hope this helps.

One the best zoos you would wanna visit trust me i look forward to every visit..

 

[dagy24]

What your saying is true and applies to most people. However, a lot of people come through these forums it seems who have half dead chameleons as a result of their "care" and when you're like "take it to a vet" they're like "lol but its a four hour drive lol thats so boring lol i don't feel like it lol"

I think that type of stuff is what makes people overcompensate and give people really conservative advice when it comes to owning and breeding chameleons. I mean, I myself went against advice I had seen here about buying/owning/breeding and my chameleons are both healthy and good, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone who comes through here just based off of the number of people who post "i baut a femail n bread her so she wudnt bcum eggbund n then she try n dig throo her cage and i waz like lol chameleon but now she is laing on the floor n not breethin lol y she do that? lol vet is far away lol. lol. lol. can i uze a peenut butter jar 4 a laying bin? lol ynot? ok wat abt a shoe? lol nvm shes dead. "