Think my Cham is Sick, Please Help!

[marleyminerva]

I'm new here, and a new chameleon owner, so here goes nothing!

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon, approx. 8 months old. I got her from the local reptile shop November 20, 2012.
Handling - The reptile shop recommended handling her about every other day for a few minutes at a time to get her used to me, so I did that when I first got her, but lately I haven't handled her as much as I'm afraid it will stress her.
Feeding - I feed small crickets. (See current problem below).
Supplements - I dust my feeders with ReptiCalcium with D3 every other day and place a few mounds of Zilla Gut Loud Cricket Drink in their enclosure (is this a good enough supplement?)
Watering - I have a dripper running all day (it drips down her leaves) and I mist her plants/enclosure for about 3 minutes 2-3 times a day.
Fecal Description - From what I have seen, she has normal stool and urate.
History - N/A.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - 2 ft tall, 1.5 ft wide cage with 2 side glass and 2 sides screen.
Lighting - 660 Watt lamp on top of the cage that stays on until we go to bed (which the reptile shop recommended).
Temperature - Sticky thermometer on the side of the cage reads the temperature in the basking spot to be about 75-80 degrees on average.
Humidity - I don't have anything to measure humidity...what should I get?
Plants - One live hibiscus plant and one fake vine, along with a thick branch for her to climb to the floor on.
Placement - The cage is located in our living room on a bookshelf about 4 feet off the ground.
Location - We are located in Southern California (smack in the middle of the desert).


Current Problem - As I said above, this is my first chameleon and I am very new to reptiles (roommates before have had reptiles so I know a little about them). I absolutely love her and just want her happy...but lately I have been a little worried about her. She doesn't eat very much, as the same 4 crickets have been in her cage for the past 3 days. I usually find a lot of dead crickets in the bottom of her cage. I have seen her drink droplets on the leaves that have fallen from her dripper and my misting, so I believe she is hydrated. However, for the past 2 days, she has been closing her eyes frequently during the day, like she's taking nap. She has done this a lot more often today. I have read that this is not normal, and along with her not eating much, it has me worried. Any advice you all could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[carol5208]

ok a couple of things. We need to know EXACTLY what type of light you are using. Have no idea what 660 watt light is. Can you read what brand it is and is it a uvb bulb? If you have no uvb bulb she will die eventually. They cannot live without it. Her basking temp needs to be higher than 75. That is too cold. Low 80's is more preferred. You should have TWO lights: a basking bulb which can be a white houselbulb and a uvb light which is critical. Can you post a pic of her please. They can develop eggs without breeding in case you did not know this. This can cause them to stop eating when they are ready to lay. Do you have a laying bin in the cage? you should be dusting everyday with a calcium with NO d3. The one with d3 can be used twice montly. you also need a multi vitamin. There are many reasons why a chameleon will close its eyes during the day, most likely causes are incorrect lighting that is irritating their eyes or some kind of illness. Even dehydration can cause that or parasites.

 

[marleyminerva]

Nymphadora a few minutes ago.

The only writings on her lamp.

Full view of her cage.

Top view of her bulb.


What do you think?

 

[AlexB]

i dont think the pics have worked i cant see them

 

[marleyminerva]

Just edited the post and they seem to be working on my computer. Can y'all see them now?

 

[carol5208]

yes can view them.. The only thing you are showing me is the dome that houses the bulb. What kind of bulb are you using? that is what is critical...not the dome itselfr. Also your cham is not carrying eggs so no worries there. You need to remove the mulch(substrate) from the bottom of the cage. Your chameleon can eat that and become impacted and die. Look at the bulb that is inside the dome and tell me what it says.

 

[marleyminerva]

The bulb says "Zoo Med 50W 120V." Doesn't say anything about UVB...

 

[carol5208]

that is not a uvb. That sounds like a 50 watt basking bulb. You need to get a 5.0 uvb bulb. Your chameleon is going to die without it. You can use the 50 watt for the basking bulb.

 

[carol5208]

that is not a uvb. That sounds like a 50 watt basking bulb. You need to get a 5.0 uvb bulb. Your chameleon is going to die without it. You can use the 50 watt for the basking bulb.

 

[cubanbee]

Time to get reading... and get a UVB

I'm a new chameleon owner and have used some of the below information and it's been very, very helpful. I'd look over this first.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html

As others have said, you need another light fixture, a long florescent fixture, to hold a UVB bulb. Details at the link above. You have the "reflector dome" heating lamp listed in the lighting section, you also need the florescent UVB mentioned. This is absolutely critical for these chameleons, like having water in a fish tank. The pet shop clerk should have known to tell you this.

Also read the section on supplements (the cricket dust). Too much D3 is bad, and I think you are doing too much. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html I see a number of people who either:

1) Dust plain calcium regularly, Calcium with D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month.
2) Use an all in one every feeder dust like Repashy brand Calcium Plus. I do this currently, my panther seems healthy. Can be bought online.

You could be feeding the crickets better to start with for improving what she eats. I found this blog incredibly helpful. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

It sounds like a pain, but I make a wet mix of veggies (from the link) in my food processor/blender, pour them into ice cube trays, then keep the frozen cubes in a zip lock. Then just microwave a cube for 20 secs when the crickets finish the last one and give them a new one. Easy.

You really should read both of those links fully and most importantly, get that UVB light.

Cheers!

 

[marleyminerva]

Thank y'all so much for the tips. I will definitely get a UVB bulb first thing tomorrow. And cubanbee, thanks for the links; lots of very helpful info there!

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum.
You've found the right place to get reliable cham info.
Petsellers don't always give good advice--as many of us have learned the hard way
It's great that you've posted pictures and filled out the answers to the how to ask for help questions.
We can look over the answers to see what is right and what isn't to help your cham live a healthy life.
Carol5208 has made some excellent points and I'll add what I know.
The type of UVB bulb you need is aReptisun 5.0 fluorescent like this one
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...por-bulbs/-/zoo-med-24-repti-sun-50-uvb-bulb/
UVB is essential to chameleon health, so the seller did you a real disservice by not selling you one when you bought her.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Female veiled chameleon, approx. 8 months old. I got her from the local reptile shop November 20, 2012.
Handling - The reptile shop recommended handling her about every other day for a few minutes at a time to get her used to me, so I did that when I first got her, but lately I haven't handled her as much as I'm afraid it will stress her.

Your instincts are good. At the very least he should had advised you to let her settle in to her new place for a few weeks before handling her at all.

Feeding - I feed small crickets. (See current problem below).
Supplements - I dust my feeders with ReptiCalcium with D3 every other day and place a few mounds of Zilla Gut Loud Cricket Drink in their enclosure (is this a good enough supplement?)

She needs a variety of feeders in her diet.
Silkworms, phoenix worms, dubias,superworms, etc.
Mealworms are said to cause intestinal blockage/impaction in chams. Waxworms are a bit too fatty to be a significant part of her diet.
See a variety of feeders here:
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
The feeders should be fed good food so they provide the most nutrition for your cham.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html
D3 every other day is known to cause serious health problems. Daily dusting of feeders should be with calcium without D3 and without phosphorus
Twice a month calcium with D3 is used instead of plain calcium and twice a month a multivitamin is used instead

Watering - I have a dripper running all day (it drips down her leaves) and I mist her plants/enclosure for about 3 minutes 2-3 times a day.

Normally, this is good but there is a problem that I see with the cage. You have some sort of substrate on the bottom . In addition to being a choking and impaction hazard, another serious danger is that it is wet all the time. Anything that is always wet creates the perfect environment for bacteria/molds to thrive and makes chams sick.
Sometimes water stagnates beneath flower pots and does the same thing and the cham gets sick, typically a respiratory infection that needs antibiotics from a vet to cure. Sellers are notorious for telling you to buy that stuff but they are wrong for the reasons above.
Many of us put a drainpan beneath the cage to catch excess water that is emptied daily before bedtime.

Fecal Description - From what I have seen, she has normal stool and urate.

As long as you're aware that stools should be solid, not liquidy and urates should be snowy white.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2 ft tall, 1.5 ft wide cage with 2 side glass and 2 sides screen.
Lighting - 660 Watt lamp on top of the cage that stays on until we go to bed (which the reptile shop recommended).

A 12 hour period of darkness is good for your cham. If the room she is in stays light late, she may be getting too little sleep and a location that's dark at night would help her.
Definitely pick up that UVB light without delay. Your present bulb is needed for basking but the UVB is needed too.
Here is an illness called MBD that results from no UVB lighting for one thing
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

Temperature - Sticky thermometer on the side of the cage reads the temperature in the basking spot to be about 75-80 degrees on average.
Humidity - I don't have anything to measure humidity...what should I get?

Accurate temperature and humidity readings are needed to be sure they're not being over/underheated or too dry/wet conditions.
Something like this provides a sensor inside the cage and a base so you can also read it outside the cage on a larger display.
http://www.amazon.com/TM005X-M-Wire...TF8&qid=1355375925&sr=8-5&keywords=hygrometer
There are also hygrometers and thermometers by zoo med and exoterra--electronic or analog doesn't really matter so long as the readings are accurate.

Plants - One live hibiscus plant and one fake vine, along with a thick branch for her to climb to the floor on.

You might want to add a bit more foliage for her to hide from view and feel more secure.

Placement - The cage is located in our living room on a bookshelf about 4 feet off the ground.

That's good.

Current Problem - As I said above, this is my first chameleon and I am very new to reptiles (roommates before have had reptiles so I know a little about them). I absolutely love her and just want her happy...but lately I have been a little worried about her. She doesn't eat very much, as the same 4 crickets have been in her cage for the past 3 days. I usually find a lot of dead crickets in the bottom of her cage. I have seen her drink droplets on the leaves that have fallen from her dripper and my misting, so I believe she is hydrated. However, for the past 2 days, she has been closing her eyes frequently during the day, like she's taking nap. She has done this a lot more often today. I have read that this is not normal, and along with her not eating much, it has me worried. Any advice you all could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Not eating and closing her eyes during the day really concern me. If there has been something constantly wet in the cage, it is likely a respiratory infection and a vet who regularly treats reptiles needs to be seen without delay.
If she was my cham, I would get her to a vet right away and would make the recommended changes in her care.
Have a look at the vets of ARAV and then the other links. Hopefully a competent vet is nearby.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
A good reptile vet can tell you if she is full of eggs and if you bring a fresh fecal sample in, when she's eating again--they can examine it and tell you if she has any parasites that need to be treated.
There is plenty of veiled chameleon info here, too

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

It's very late by me (East Coast) so I may have overlooked something but the most important points have been made.
Also take the crickets out of her cage.
Your chameleon becomes their food when the crickets get hungry
we'd love to see her well and hope that you'll post updates to the forum.
Best of luck to you and your little girl cham!

 

[AngieL]

You've been given some good advice so all I'm going to say is your girl is not 8 months old. Going on that pic she looks far younger, maybe 4 months. If she doesn't start to eat soon go see a vet because they are fragile at that age and really need food and calcium. I hope she gets better soon

 

[marleyminerva]

Lovereps, thanks SO much for all the helpful tips! Nymphadora now has a UVB lamp, a humidity reader, and calcium with NO D3 to dust on her crickets. As for what you said about the substrate at the bottom possibly causing an upper respiratory infection...this is what the pet shop gave me to put at the bottom of her cage. However I can see now how it could cause numerous problems, and obviously this pet shop is not very knowledgable about chams. You mentioned a drainage system instead. Could you possibly go into more depth on that? I don't know how I could set one up in her cage now, but I think it would help, so I would love any tips.

 

[cubanbee]

I know I wasn't asked, but I'll jump in, too.

Good news on all of the new items you got!

Drainage will depend on what the bottom of your cage is made of. If it's glass bottom like the one the previous owner of my chameleon gave me (2 screen sides, 2 glass, screen top, glass bottom)... no easy feat. I couldn't keep a puddle from building up there. I tried paper towels on the bottom that I would replace... daily. Booooo, kind of a pain and messy.

If that's your situation... get ready for it... you're going to eventually want a cage with a plastic bottom or screen bottom with plastic insert. Once you have that, there are many ways to create drainage from holes/tubes through the plastic out to a bucket or drip pan.

What I did is pretty simple, but again, I had to buy a new cage. I was going to need it anyway, the previous owner kept it in a way to small 14x14x20 cage at 9 mos. I think someone else on this thread commented on the size/age ratio of your chameleon. Mine was the same. Until I got him a bigger enclosure and started feeding his feeders right. He has exploded in size in just a month.

So I got a screen cage from a forum sponsor here LLL Reptile (see view sponsors up the the right corner). This cage has a plastic bottom. I lifted the cage up on a couple of fabric covered foam risers I had (you can use anything... wood, pvc pipe on end... books in the corners I suppose, whatever). Under the cage I have a simple foil roasting pan. I put my plants in the enclosure where they would normally be. I poured in a few cups of water and watched where it all pooled. Took note, drilled a bunch of small (smaller than a cricket) holes through the plastic there. Water drains through the holes into the pan. Slide out the pan and dump it every couple days (my pan is pretty deep).

Once I had the cage, which I needed anyway, and something tall enough to lift the cage higher than the 2.00 foil pan i got, I was all set. It works great.

You can search Drainage up in the search above for a million other ideas.

 

[Lovereps]

Glad you are so caring

As for what you said about the substrate at the bottom possibly causing an upper respiratory infection...this is what the pet shop gave me to put at the bottom of her cage. However I can see now how it could cause numerous problems, and obviously this pet shop is not very knowledgable about chams.

Sadly, that is the case more often than not and the owners and their chams end up paying the price for the bad advice given by those who ought to know better.

I put a lot of thought into posts (and am a slow typist besides) so I love it when people are caring enough to make the changes and seek the vet care that can enable their chams to recover.

It always sounds so "alarmist" when people say "take your cham to a vet right away" but the reason for the panic is this:
Unlike dogs, cats, bearded dragons, etc. chameleons hide all signs of illness for as long as they possibly can. (It helps them avoid being someone's dinner in the wild.)
Once they're showing symptoms, it means they're too weak to hide it anymore, so there's less time to act than with other kinds of critters.
With her symptoms of not eating and closing her eyes during the day, she'll need antibiotics to recover.
Those respiratory infections never go away without prescription medication and are fatal.

The ARAV vets have taken a special interest in caring for reptiles and their website is a good place to have a look for a vet
http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/

There are plenty of drainage options that cham owners have come up with.
Some ideas for you are here
https://www.chameleonforums.com/lets-see-your-drainage-systems-98152/
and some more here
https://www.chameleonforums.com/drainage-systems-all-screen-enclosures-98648/
and there are a mind boggling number of posts about drainage here
https://www.chameleonforums.com/search.php?searchid=2320214

And Cubanbee, you don't need permission to share good, helpful info.

 

[marleyminerva]

Thanks so much Cubanbee and Lovereps! You guys have been a tremendous help. My veterinarian saw her - I'm actually a vet tech at a dog and cat clinic, but the vet I work for is also specialized in reptiles, which is awesome for me! No respiratory infectipn, but he recommended force/syringe feeding her. He suggested I try meal worms. He said sometimes baby chameleons like her just fail to thrive and pass away even with no health problems. :/ He also said to get rid of the substrate and get a drainage system going or use paper towels, which I will be doing as soon as I get home. Hopefully this UVB bulb will get her feeling better and she will start eating without me having to help. We'll see.. I'll keep you guys updated, and thanks again for all the help!

 

[kinyonga]

Sounds like your vet knows a thing or two about chameleons.

This might have been one of those rare times when giving D3 supplements more often than recommended wasn't a bad thing since you had no UVB light on the cage. It might have saved your chameleon from MBD. That doesn't mean that I think it should become to replace UVB by any means.

 

[AlexB]

LOOK AT THIS IT HAS EVERYTHING YOU NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(should be a blog................. i wish hey guys this is a great care sheet if you ever need one on your veiled chameleon=======it has everything you need to be a great chameleon owner!!


Information on Veiled Chameleon Husbandry:

* Housing

o The ideal cage

* Constructed with plastic-coated, wire mesh with wood or metal framing

* The wire mesh should be ½" x ½ " or ½" x 1"

* The large mesh provides good ventilation and protection yet a visible barrier

o The cage bottom should not contain any substrate

* The chameleon may accidentally miss a prey item and ingest a small amount of the substrate, possibly causing digestive problems such as an impaction

* For aesthetics, the cage bottom may be covered with indoor/outdoor carpeting

o The chameleon's natural environment should be attempted to be re-created

* Fill with several plants or small trees

* Provide support with natural branches or wood dowels for the larger chameleons

* The overall cage design should provide a natural flow to allow easy access to water, food, and basking sites

* Lighting

o A fluorescent light can be used as overall lighting for the cage

o Full-spectrum, daylight type that also emits some degree of UV-A and UV-B radiation.

o A basking light can be used as a lighting source

o If used as the sole light source, it must be of the newer mercury vapor style light bulbs that emit UV-A and UV-B (i.e., UV Heat, Dragon light, etc.)

o The best source of light is the sun

o Chameleons need access to unfiltered sunlight for at least several hours a week (weather permitting)

* Diet

o A basic nutritious diet may consist of:

* Crickets (Acheta domesticus)

* Mealworms (Tenebrio molitor)

* Superworms (Zoophobias morio)

* Waxworms (Galleria mellonella)

o Continue dusting the insects in calcium carbonate

o Make sure the source of your insects provides them with a well balanced meal because the gut contents of the insects are key in maintaining a healthy diet for the chameleons

* Humidity:

o Veiled chameleons only need about 50% humidity – this can usually be accomplished by misting the plants in the terrarium twice daily

o It is best to invest in a hygrometer to make sure the humidity is in the appropriate range

* Temperature:

o Basking temperatures should be roughly 85˚F

o The remainder of the enclosure should be roughly 70 to 75˚F

o Veiled chameleons thrives better when there is a 10˚ drop in temperature

everything you need to be a great owner

 

[Lovereps]

Excellent

That's great to hear, marleyminerva.
Thanks for the update.

Forgot to add earlier that if you can find Phoenix worms also known as calciworms , they are much higher in calcium than most other feeders and very wiggly, so they can often entice a reluctant cham to eat.

You can print the chart and ask the vet what he thinks of them if you want
http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/the-template/comparison/Page

We'll be keeping our fingers crossed and hope that she starts chomping bugs on her own very soon.
Best of luck.