Took Ocelot to the Vet...

[mudshark1971]

I took my male to the vet because somebody on here said he had URI from bubbles in his mouth, well they were wrong. What all the mucous i his moth was from were the legs of crickets jabbing his gums. He gave me drops to put in his mouth and an anti-biotic to help it heal. Turns out crickets are the worse things you can feed your Chameleon. He said to feed him Superworms, Moths, Other worms , well anything that is soft with no hard crunchy shells. SO does anybody on here grow and sell anyother food that is totally healthy for my Cham?

 

[ChameleonAyer]

I sometimes remove the back legs of the crickets if I feel like they pose a threat. I also break the mouth of superworms and hornworms when I use those as feeders too. They like to bite. If you look through the site sponsors they sell a lot of different feeders.

 

[pssh]

Chameleons need chitin in their diets. Crickets, stick bugs, praying mantis, roaches, superworms, and grasshoppers all have it. He cannot be fed an only soft bodied insect diet.

 

[DJ Richey Rich]

I nip the back legs off my crickets they r the only legs that have the power to cut its mouth

 

[Kent67]

Sorry, I may not be a vet but that is ridiculous. Large chameleons eat large, diurnal insects in the wild. Grasshoppers, locusts, (jumping legs and all) etc and we know how hard and crunchy they are. And, really, superworms are more chitinous than crickets, too. I've been keeping chams for close to 20 years and have used crickets as their staple the entire time. Cricket legs poking gums causing mucus in the mouth is a new one on me. If you're really worried about it though, try crickets under 4 weeks old. They're much more soft-bodied than the larger ones.

How did the vet know that the chameleon does not have a respiratory infection? Had he been drinking prior to the photos people commented on?

 

[mudshark1971]

Sorry, I may not be a vet but that is ridiculous. Large chameleons eat large, diurnal insects in the wild. Grasshoppers, locusts, (jumping legs and all) etc and we know how hard and crunchy they are. And, really, superworms are more chitinous than crickets, too. I've been keeping chams for close to 20 years and have used crickets as their staple the entire time. Cricket legs poking gums causing mucus in the mouth is a new one on me. If you're really worried about it though, try crickets under 4 weeks old. They're much more soft-bodied than the larger ones.

How did the vet know that the chameleon does not have a respiratory infection? Had he been drinking prior to the photos people commented on?

yes ha was drinking before. he actually has a drinking problem. Anyway no uri, no parasites hes all good...

 

[PardalisGirl]

Agree with Kent.........

Kent is right..........or I'm extremely lucky. I've had over 50 adult chams and hundreds of babies living in my house for years. They have all been eating crickets. They are eating roaches too. I've never pulled a leg off of a cricket or roach before feeding them to my chams. And I've never had an issue. If your cham received an injury from a cricket leg then it was an injury that would occur very rarely. Chameleons are designed by nature to eat any insect they can cram into their mouths. They may, from time to time, sustain an irritation from something they eat or do. Healthy chameleons heal quickly just like healthy humans heal after cutting themselves. Abscesses or other mouth/gum related issues are often a sign of an underlying immune system problem or vitamin deficiency. I'd still keep a close eye on your cham in case something else is wrong.

 

[Kent67]

I'd still keep a close eye on your cham in case something else is wrong.

Ok, I very rarely get involved with these types of threads (see my stats, I really, really try to stay out of these) because of how they always seem to be perceived by the OP. Everyone has some critique, right? I really hope nothing is wrong with him, like you said. Now, keeping in mind how rare it is that I get involved in these, and that I've been keeping panther chameleons for, uh, 18 years straight (addiction? yes.) now, I hope you see that Catherine and I are not trying to just beat a dead horse here. I read that you're wanting him to be your first breeder and he's a beautiful animal. I want him to be well and you to have success, too. In the other thread, just as Chameleonneeds said about him looking skinny in the last post, he just doesn't quite look right to me. I noticed the front legs in the 2nd picture immediately, just like he mentioned. I also noticed that half of the pictures, 2 of 4, showed him gaping, but apparently not in a threatening pose. Not normal. That, combined with the saliva led to people speculating on the URI. I would have thought so, too.

Now, if I went to a vet who told me that what I and hundreds of other people had successfully been doing for 20 years was wrong, I'd assume he/she wasn't well-versed in chameleons (not their fault) and try to find another. This leads me back to the question I asked before. How was it determined there is no URI? A very thirsty chameleon will sometimes have stringy saliva and bubbles out the mouth while drinking as I suggested before which would explain everything. If not, I'd still be looking for the root cause because crickets aren't it. I've collected many, many wild grasshoppers, etc and haven't pinched off a hindleg in 15 years, as well. Like Catherine said, they're made to eat hard parts. That diagnosis for it just doesn't make sense to me after 20 years of feeding crickets, grasshoppers, and snails to chameleons.

To reiterate, what Catherine said above, keep an eye on him. Make sure he's eating every day. Don't be worried about crickets and superworms. Let him eat as much as he wants right now. I would recommend, however, feeding the crickets first each day and then giving the superworms which seems to keep most from wanting supers only, as happens often. Good luck.

 

[chamlover]

Boy do i double what has been told to you. Did you question your vet as to how much exp he/she has with chams? Around here i work with 2 vets. Both have very little exp with them and i can usually tell them what the problem is and what to do before they know it. Although i do have 1 vet now that when i notice a problem with one of my chams and he isn't sure what is going on,he spends have the night looking stuff up. Not that they aren't smart, there just isn't alot of people with chams so they don't have the exp that some of the people on the forums have. Please have him checked by another vet if possible. What tests did your vet do to determine he didn't have a URI?

 

[OOOst16]

i was the one who pointed out the bubles....just to make it very clear....a picture was posted by me of a panther juvinile with a URI....and the similarity between the bubles in ocelots mouth and the medical photo were uncanny similar ( look up the thread) im not going to argue....crix are good for chams THAT IS ALL. i rest my case.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Original thread...........

I just reviewed the original thread so I could see what was being discussed. I'm more concerned about the appearance of the legs. It is either due to not enough food intake or dehydration. It's a sign that something is not right. Look at the pictures. They are not due to positioning or stretching. It's not due to age either. A healthy cham does not have legs that look like that. Did your vet do an actual fecal (direct and float) to determine there were no parasites? If I took your chameleon to my vet he would tell me that it was not healthy based just on appearance. I'm not feeling good about your vet's experience with chameleons based on your results with him/her. We are not trying to be harsh. He's a beautiful boy and we all want him to thrive under your care. Please consider going to another vet....

 

[OOOst16]

i do 100% agree...i origonaly comment on how frail he looks...the face legs and back show it the most. legs should not have a indentation in them. i would take him to a different vet. get a smear or float done.(do the one wich reveals more indepth tests)

 

[Carlton]

What all the mucous i his moth was from were the legs of crickets jabbing his gums.

If this happens it is a real exception rather than the rule. And, an injury from a feeder leg would most likely show up as a sore with a visible cut, swelling, redness, or an abscess with patches of cheesy looking stuff on the gum.

As others mentioned, a cham with mucous and bubbling in the mouth is either salivating while drinking (a sign of dehydration or extreme thirst), salivating while actively eating, or developing a respiratory infection. Other signs of respiratory infections include resting or sleeping with head tipped straight up, open mouth breathing (not while basking), puffed out throat and gulping over and over, sitting dark and inactive under the basking light for much of the day, not eating or drinking.

 

[Metric]

I'm no expert or vet, but i have to agree with Kent on this one. If my cham can handle a full sized Preying mantis, I wouldn't suspect a cricket of dealing that much damage.

I think you need to see a second more chameleon experienced vet. To be honest, that cricket answer seems more of an excuse from a clueless vet.

 

[mudshark1971]

Well my Vet was right. My Chameleon has no more stuff in hes mouth. Yeas he did do a fecal and check for parasites. Ocelot is healthy as any other chameleon. I dont know whoever keeps saying stuff about his legs is wacked. Ocelot has nice mucle tone and fat on his legs. In fact that is where I inject him with anti-biotic every morning. I have 5 friends all with CHams here in town all about the same age and they all look about the same weight and length give or take a little on age difference. I am used to everybody being an expert on the internet. You cant really tell anythng from a picture. I could take lots of pictures from all different angles and his legs would look different in every picture. I happen to know this because I am a photographer...

 

[mudshark1971]

All the pictures were right after we took a shower. I take very hot showers and let him sit on the curtain rod and take in all the warm humidity of a shower. His mouth was agape because he smiles a lot when he is happy. When I take him for rides in the car same thing as after showers and baths, he is happy. He is a very social chameleon and does smile. The only pics I put up was of him smiling. Anyway he is not skinny . He eats very much and packs on tons of weight. He weighs 3 1/2 onces

 

[Metric]

Well my Vet was right. My Chameleon has no more stuff in hes mouth. Yeas he did do a fecal and check for parasites. Ocelot is healthy as any other chameleon. I dont know whoever keeps saying stuff about his legs is wacked. Ocelot has nice mucle tone and fat on his legs. In fact that is where I inject him with anti-biotic every morning. I have 5 friends all with CHams here in town all about the same age and they all look about the same weight and length give or take a little on age difference. I am used to everybody being an expert on the internet. You cant really tell anythng from a picture. I could take lots of pictures from all different angles and his legs would look different in every picture. I happen to know this because I am a photographer...

They may look different, but there will always be a sence of consinstincy amongst all the different angles.

If you're really confident about his status, why not share a few newer pics with us, It wouldn't hurt

Please, just bear in mind, the only reason some of us might sound like were "grilling" you, or just sounding rude, is because we genuinely care about these magnificint creatures, even if they arn't ours. You'd be surprised how many members go on with their day, thinking in the back of their mind about a chameleon that they read about or tried to help that is in pain, or suffering unnecessarily due to the stubborness of some owners because of pride, or because they feel we are just being rude or pretencious or any other reason for that matter.

Regardless, we all want to help so post some pics if you like :]

edit: Grammatical errors. opps.

 

[pssh]

Uhh, chameleons don't smile... They gape. It will also start something if you say he is 'happy' I think content would be a better word as we don't really know if they are 'happy.'

 

[Kent67]

I dont know whoever keeps saying stuff about his legs is wacked.

Exactly why I don't bother trying to help people. Ick. Good luck with your lizard.

 

[graydon]

All the pictures were right after we took a shower. I take very hot showers and let him sit on the curtain rod and take in all the warm humidity of a shower. His mouth was agape because he smiles a lot when he is happy. When I take him for rides in the car same thing as after showers and baths, he is happy. He is a very social chameleon and does smile. The only pics I put up was of him smiling. Anyway he is not skinny . He eats very much and packs on tons of weight. He weighs 3 1/2 onces

These creatures are solitary reptiles. Not fun loving mammals. Chams don't smile but if you call gaping smiling then have at it. Car rides? Seems like you treat your cham like a dog which is completely wrong.