Treating Metabolic Bone Disease

H

haleyoak

New Member
I recently found out, Dexter, my veiled chameleon has MBD. i trusted my local pet store‘s advice instead of fully reading up/consulting a veterinarian and discovered he was lacking proper lighting and calcium in his diet. I’ve obviously corrected all faults and have been extremely diligent about getting him better. Initially he was unable to hold his head up and wouldn’t even hiss at me when i handled him. Now he’s holding his head up and trying to move around more, but is still unable to use his back legs.

But backstory aside, I just want to make sure he’s doing better. I can’t afford to go to the vet for frequent checkups so i’m hoping this forum will help me.

First question: has anyone with experience in MBD noticed that their cham couldn’t use their hind legs? Dexter will not use his hind legs at all and it’s really been scaring me. I know his legs are swollen and i know his bones are fragile but i feel like he should at least be stretching them. I noticed earlier he was able to grab onto a phone charging cord with his back legs while he was sleeping in my hand (I have to give him liquid calcium twice daily and at night he’ll fall asleep in my hand) so i’m hoping he’s starting to gain mobility again. I understand MBD is a slow rehabilitation process and i’ve only been treating it for a little over a week now. but i just want to make sure he’s progressing.

Second question: he’s stopped eating which the vet said was normal in his case but i’m just worried about the extent of time. it’s only been a couple days since he stopped and i think it’s because he can’t hold onto his branches and i know he doesn’t like catching crickets when he’s on the bottom of his cage. i just don’t want him to starve himself. he wasn’t drinking enough water and was extremely dehydrated but we’ve since gotten him rehydrated, now we’re just concerned with his lack of eating. i put in a new cricket every day and he doesn’t care in the slightest bit. i’ve even fashioned a perch for him to sit on at the top of his cage so he can feel tall and feel like his old self but he just sits there until he finally starts to push himself off and then he falls (onto the extremely cushioned floor).

I’m just so obsessed with this lizard and want to get him healthy again. I was told he had a 40% chance of making it which is a good enough statistic to give me hope. I guess i just need reassurance that we’re on the right path and i’m doing the right things to get him better.

Pictures were taken tonight while he was asleep on my bed (i moved him back to his cage right after said pictures were taken). ~ do the tiny black spots seem concerning to anyone?? Thanks in advance for any feedback!!
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I found a place that makes Liquid Calcium - in various flavors. My Vet checked it out. It's all good. Plus - I buy it just to keep for my 3 veiled Chammys. Company is Called Bug~De~Lite. Product is Safe - Made in America. GOOGLE them. It's about $5.00 a btl. / $5.00 shipping. Worth it! Just to have on hand.
 
haleyoak said:
I recently found out, Dexter, my veiled chameleon has MBD. i trusted my local pet store‘s advice instead of fully reading up/consulting a veterinarian and discovered he was lacking proper lighting and calcium in his diet. I’ve obviously corrected all faults and have been extremely diligent about getting him better. Initially he was unable to hold his head up and wouldn’t even hiss at me when i handled him. Now he’s holding his head up and trying to move around more, but is still unable to use his back legs.

But backstory aside, I just want to make sure he’s doing better. I can’t afford to go to the vet for frequent checkups so i’m hoping this forum will help me.

First question: has anyone with experience in MBD noticed that their cham couldn’t use their hind legs? Dexter will not use his hind legs at all and it’s really been scaring me. I know his legs are swollen and i know his bones are fragile but i feel like he should at least be stretching them. I noticed earlier he was able to grab onto a phone charging cord with his back legs while he was sleeping in my hand (I have to give him liquid calcium twice daily and at night he’ll fall asleep in my hand) so i’m hoping he’s starting to gain mobility again. I understand MBD is a slow rehabilitation process and i’ve only been treating it for a little over a week now. but i just want to make sure he’s progressing.

Second question: he’s stopped eating which the vet said was normal in his case but i’m just worried about the extent of time. it’s only been a couple days since he stopped and i think it’s because he can’t hold onto his branches and i know he doesn’t like catching crickets when he’s on the bottom of his cage. i just don’t want him to starve himself. he wasn’t drinking enough water and was extremely dehydrated but we’ve since gotten him rehydrated, now we’re just concerned with his lack of eating. i put in a new cricket every day and he doesn’t care in the slightest bit. i’ve even fashioned a perch for him to sit on at the top of his cage so he can feel tall and feel like his old self but he just sits there until he finally starts to push himself off and then he falls (onto the extremely cushioned floor).

I’m just so obsessed with this lizard and want to get him healthy again. I was told he had a 40% chance of making it which is a good enough statistic to give me hope. I guess i just need reassurance that we’re on the right path and i’m doing the right things to get him better.

Pictures were taken tonight while he was asleep on my bed (i moved him back to his cage right after said pictures were taken). ~ do the tiny black spots seem concerning to anyone?? Thanks in advance for any feedback!!View attachment 259926
Click to expand...

It is a slow comeback. If have changed lighting and supplements.
No one can say how long.

On the feeding he/she doesn’t look skinny so that is good. Can go a week or two when healthy.
He is already weak so I would not go more than 3 days.

If you need to force feed, if he doesn’t eat soon, there are recipes on here. I will find them. You can use insulin syringe if you don’t have one.
 
kinyonga said:
I don't see any signs of gout or MBD...but only a vet can tell you for sure.

Please answer the questions in this thread...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
Click to expand...
haleyoak said:
I recently found out, Dexter, my veiled chameleon has MBD. i trusted my local pet store‘s advice instead of fully reading up/consulting a veterinarian and discovered he was lacking proper lighting and calcium in his diet. I’ve obviously corrected all faults and have been extremely diligent about getting him better. Initially he was unable to hold his head up and wouldn’t even hiss at me when i handled him. Now he’s holding his head up and trying to move around more, but is still unable to use his back legs.

But backstory aside, I just want to make sure he’s doing better. I can’t afford to go to the vet for frequent checkups so i’m hoping this forum will help me.

First question: has anyone with experience in MBD noticed that their cham couldn’t use their hind legs? Dexter will not use his hind legs at all and it’s really been scaring me. I know his legs are swollen and i know his bones are fragile but i feel like he should at least be stretching them. I noticed earlier he was able to grab onto a phone charging cord with his back legs while he was sleeping in my hand (I have to give him liquid calcium twice daily and at night he’ll fall asleep in my hand) so i’m hoping he’s starting to gain mobility again. I understand MBD is a slow rehabilitation process and i’ve only been treating it for a little over a week now. but i just want to make sure he’s progressing.

Second question: he’s stopped eating which the vet said was normal in his case but i’m just worried about the extent of time. it’s only been a couple days since he stopped and i think it’s because he can’t hold onto his branches and i know he doesn’t like catching crickets when he’s on the bottom of his cage. i just don’t want him to starve himself. he wasn’t drinking enough water and was extremely dehydrated but we’ve since gotten him rehydrated, now we’re just concerned with his lack of eating. i put in a new cricket every day and he doesn’t care in the slightest bit. i’ve even fashioned a perch for him to sit on at the top of his cage so he can feel tall and feel like his old self but he just sits there until he finally starts to push himself off and then he falls (onto the extremely cushioned floor).

I’m just so obsessed with this lizard and want to get him healthy again. I was told he had a 40% chance of making it which is a good enough statistic to give me hope. I guess i just need reassurance that we’re on the right path and i’m doing the right things to get him better.

Pictures were taken tonight while he was asleep on my bed (i moved him back to his cage right after said pictures were taken). ~ do the tiny black spots seem concerning to anyone?? Thanks in advance for any feedback!!View attachment 259926
Click to expand...


  • Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, according to vet, male, and about 5/6 months old. I’ve had him for about 4 months now
  • Handling - At this point i have to handle him daily. Before it was rare, maybe once a week or so.
  • Feeding - Gut loaded crickets. I put one in his cage a day since he’s slowed down on eating. I put a new cricket in his cage every morning. The crickets get their cricket food and vegetables.
  • Supplements - The calcium I have now is directly from the vet. No brand name. But his crickets are dusted with reptisafe calcium and he also has reptisafe vitamin drops for his water.
  • Watering - Mist his cage, he also has a dripper. I mist about 3-4 times a day, around 50 sprays. He doesn’t drink anymore so I give him water with a syringe now.
  • Fecal Description - Last time he defecated it was extremely watery and the color was yellowish but this was when he was extremely dehydrated. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. We just recently moved houses and his vet thinks the stress from that pushed him over the edge to finally show signs of MBD.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptisun 18” 10.0 UVB and a 150 watt exo terra basking bulb. His lights are on a timer, both on at 8 am, basking bulb off at 8 pm and UVB off at 10 (vet said he needed extra UVB time).
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? • At the moment he can’t climb so the only temperature I regulate is the bottom of his cage. I try to keep it around 80°-85° during the day.
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? • I don’t have a humidity gauge.
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? • Yes, a schefflera or umbrella plant
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? • He is kind of in the corner of my room, barely any traffic and no air vents or fans on his side of the room. The very top of his cage is about 4 feet from the floor.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? I am in Northeast Tennessee.
 

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kinyonga said:
Did the vet do X-rays?

It might be helpful if you answer the questions in this thread...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
Click to expand...
I answered the questions below! and no the vet offered to do x-rays and take blood but I just can’t afford to dish out that amount of money right now. He mentioned he could be in kidney failure but we wouldn’t know until he did bloodwork and told me it would be pretty expensive since it’s so hard to take blood from a lizard.
 
Lennoncham said:
Honestly I don’t see signs of mbd. Looks more to me like possible gout in his back legs and maybe a neurological disorder since he’s not using his back legs. I would consult another vet. Also looks female to me.
Click to expand...

My only problem is the area i’m in, we don’t have many exotic vets. Initially, Dexter couldn’t even hold his head up but since giving him calcium daily and changing his lighting he’s perked up quite a bit. I’m just bothered by the paralysis in his back legs. And i’ve been so back and forth on his gender, the vet said he looked male but i’ve yet to get a solid answer.
 
kinyonga said:
How long do you keep the chameleon out of its cage and what's the temperature in the room?
Click to expand...
He’s out of his cage for maybe a couple minutes at most. I only kept him out last night to take some pictures for this forum. But my room is upstairs in our house so it stays pretty warm in here. I’d say at least 68° - 70° but some days it feels like it’s almost 80°.
 
Lennoncham said:
ah ya I think it was the angle of the first pic that made me think gout. the second pic doesn’t show the same bulge looking area.
Click to expand...
I posted another picture of him from this morning. He was slightly pissed because i had just given him his calcium. If needed I can post some more pictures in different angles if that would help.
 
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, according to vet, male, and about 5/6 months old. I’ve had him for about 4 months now
  • Handling - At this point i have to handle him daily. Before it was rare, maybe once a week or so.
  • Feeding - Gut loaded crickets. I put one in his cage a day since he’s slowed down on eating. I put a new cricket in his cage every morning. The crickets get their cricket food and vegetables. try feeding a variety, like roaches, bsfl, silkworms, hornworms and superworms
  • Supplements - The calcium I have now is directly from the vet. No brand name. But his crickets are dusted with reptisafe calcium and he also has reptisafe vitamin drops for his water. does your calcium have d3 or no d3?
  • Watering - Mist his cage, he also has a dripper. I mist about 3-4 times a day, around 50 sprays. He doesn’t drink anymore so I give him water with a syringe now. try misting 2-5 mins per time allowing the cage to completely dry between mist sessions.
  • Fecal Description - Last time he defecated it was extremely watery and the color was yellowish but this was when he was extremely dehydrated. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. We just recently moved houses and his vet thinks the stress from that pushed him over the edge to finally show signs of MBD. stress doesnt cause mbd, you need a new vet.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptisun 18” 10.0 UVB and a 150 watt exo terra basking bulb. His lights are on a timer, both on at 8 am, basking bulb off at 8 pm and UVB off at 10 (vet said he needed extra UVB time).
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? • At the moment he can’t climb so the only temperature I regulate is the bottom of his cage. I try to keep it around 80°-85° during the day.i would make him a hospital bin (see lower)
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? • I don’t have a humidity gauge. get a digital humidity gauge asap
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? • Yes, a schefflera or umbrella plant
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? • He is kind of in the corner of my room, barely any traffic and no air vents or fans on his side of the room. The very top of his cage is about 4 feet from the floor.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? I am in Northeast Tennessee.

if i were you, i would set up a hospital bin for him because you dont want him to accidentally fall from a large height. how you do this is get a Tupperware container and put some plants and vines in there. put some paper towel at the bottom for easy clean up and a heat mat on the SIDE so there is a cool side and warm side. keep it at around 80 degrees hot side and 70 cool side. along with that cut a hole in the top of the lid and put some mesh there to ventilate the box he's in. place the uvb light on top and thats your hospital bin.

this will be a good way to monitor him and keep him from falling. has he completely stopped eating? he definitely has mbd from the looks of that elbow but there may also be moer underlying problems. i hope the best for you guys!!
 
Thehippie said:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, according to vet, male, and about 5/6 months old. I’ve had him for about 4 months now
  • Handling - At this point i have to handle him daily. Before it was rare, maybe once a week or so.
  • Feeding - Gut loaded crickets. I put one in his cage a day since he’s slowed down on eating. I put a new cricket in his cage every morning. The crickets get their cricket food and vegetables. try feeding a variety, like roaches, bsfl, silkworms, hornworms and superworms
  • Supplements - The calcium I have now is directly from the vet. No brand name. But his crickets are dusted with reptisafe calcium and he also has reptisafe vitamin drops for his water. does your calcium have d3 or no d3?
  • Watering - Mist his cage, he also has a dripper. I mist about 3-4 times a day, around 50 sprays. He doesn’t drink anymore so I give him water with a syringe now. try misting 2-5 mins per time allowing the cage to completely dry between mist sessions.
  • Fecal Description - Last time he defecated it was extremely watery and the color was yellowish but this was when he was extremely dehydrated. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. We just recently moved houses and his vet thinks the stress from that pushed him over the edge to finally show signs of MBD. stress doesnt cause mbd, you need a new vet.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptisun 18” 10.0 UVB and a 150 watt exo terra basking bulb. His lights are on a timer, both on at 8 am, basking bulb off at 8 pm and UVB off at 10 (vet said he needed extra UVB time).
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? • At the moment he can’t climb so the only temperature I regulate is the bottom of his cage. I try to keep it around 80°-85° during the day.i would make him a hospital bin (see lower)
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? • I don’t have a humidity gauge. get a digital humidity gauge asap
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? • Yes, a schefflera or umbrella plant
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? • He is kind of in the corner of my room, barely any traffic and no air vents or fans on his side of the room. The very top of his cage is about 4 feet from the floor.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located? I am in Northeast Tennessee.

if i were you, i would set up a hospital bin for him because you dont want him to accidentally fall from a large height. how you do this is get a Tupperware container and put some plants and vines in there. put some paper towel at the bottom for easy clean up and a heat mat on the SIDE so there is a cool side and warm side. keep it at around 80 degrees hot side and 70 cool side. along with that cut a hole in the top of the lid and put some mesh there to ventilate the box he's in. place the uvb light on top and thats your hospital bin.

this will be a good way to monitor him and keep him from falling. has he completely stopped eating? he definitely has mbd from the looks of that elbow but there may also be moer underlying problems. i hope the best for you guys!!
Click to expand...
His cage is 16 x 16 x 30
He hasn’t acted interested in food the past couple days but there’s a chance he might be eating while i’m gone at work. It’s hard to tell. i give him mealworms occasionally to mix it up but i will definitely invest in some other food options for him. His vet said he probably had MBD for a little while but didn’t start showing signs until he got extremely stressed from the move. As for his calcium, i’m not sure what it is specifically. Like i said, it’s directly from the vet so it’s just a vile with only the instructions on amount to give and how often to give it. I will definitely work on the hospital bin! Thank you for that.
 
haleyoak said:
His cage is 16 x 16 x 30
He hasn’t acted interested in food the past couple days but there’s a chance he might be eating while i’m gone at work. It’s hard to tell. i give him mealworms occasionally to mix it up but i will definitely invest in some other food options for him. His vet said he probably had MBD for a little while but didn’t start showing signs until he got extremely stressed from the move. As for his calcium, i’m not sure what it is specifically. Like i said, it’s directly from the vet so it’s just a vile with only the instructions on amount to give and how often to give it. I will definitely work on the hospital bin! Thank you for that.
Click to expand...
how about the reptisafe calcium, they should have it on the label.
 
I also noticed a slight discoloration on the hind legs and on rear back.
anybody know what that might be?
 

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Did your veterinarian take X-rays? or run blood work? or was this diagnosis made solely by observation? If it was made by one of the first 2 diagnostics I would take the diagnosis seriously if it was only made by observation or physical exam I would get a second opinion. Did they take a thorough history? If he has never had D3 or a good quality T5 UVB light then MBD would be a stronger probability.
This might help link: What Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) looks like, how it happens, and how to fix it
 
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