Trioceros goetzei

[Damaranum]

Benny, In the research of Klaver en Boehme 1988 they indeed look at longue and hemipenis structures. But Trioceros was named first in 1839 by Swaison for Trioceros oweni.
Fritzinger in 1843 used Triceras now seen as synonim for Trioceros oweni and Gray used Ensistrotis now seen as synonim for Trioceros melleri.

I should look at the work of Klaver and Boehme again to see what they write about Trioceros. And look at the work of Hillenius about bitaeniatus.

I haven't read much of my books the last years.

 

[ciafardo 4]

Ahhh!!!!!! You finally let the cat outta the bag ! I have asked to buy these from him at least once a week since he has had them but he wouldn't budge he said they were spoken for. They are leaving the country so rather than sell them to someone who can drive to pick them up he's goin through all kinds of red tape just to get them to the person he promised them to. I think that pretty much says what an honorable guy cain is ! Look now you got me kissing your a$$! hahahahaha

 

[drewtt]

Those girls look amazing!
Are they fully grown? Do you know an approximate age? It is hard to tell their size in the photos.

-Drew

 

[Cainschams]

Thanks again!

Benny and damaranum, thanks for the information. Keep it coming!

Brad, thank you!!! You can see in the second set of pics, the second photo of female 2 is one when they first got here. They were pretty skinny but they were the best 2 chams in the shipment I got in March. THANK GOD!!!!!! When the tavs started going down hill I was really worried about them. I am glad to get a chance to work with such a beautiful RARE species. Although it is going to be hard parting with them I hope they will be in the rightful owners hands soon

Hahaha, Phil. Sorry buddy but I have hooked you up pretty good You got to see them in person though!!!! The pics really dont do much justice for them. Thanks for the kind words too. I must say though, this is what friends do. I am a man of my word!

drewtt, they are fully grown. No idea on how old they are but I will see if I can dig up a pic of one on my hand for comparison. I deleted a bunch of older photos from my comp. Im sure you will see them hopfully soon.

 

[Chris Anderson]

There are a number of factors which differentiate the Trioceros from other genera. A good paper to look at for information is the new Tilbury & Tolley, 2009 paper elevating Trioceros to a full genus (where most of this information is from).

According to Tillbury & Tolley, cranial morphology really isn't a useful trait to differentiate Trioceros, Chamaeleo, Furcifer, Kinyongia and Calumma.

Hemipenal morphology has historically been used a lot for classification in chameleons. Certain genera have characteristically different structures from other genera (ex: multi-rotulae condition on the apex in the genus Chamaeleo).

Additionally, karyotyping (chromosome numbers and structure) has also proved useful. The genus Chamaeleo has a karyotype 2n=24=12M+12m while Trioceros have a karyotype 2n=36=12M+24m in the T. cristatus complex and 2n=24=20M+4m in the T. bitaeniatus complex.

Lung morphology is also a major classifying difference between genera, particularly of Trioceros. Trioceros and Chamaeleo both have large internal septae running lengthwise through the lumen of the lung. These two genera can be differentiated by looking at the origin and attachments of the septae.

Finally, molecular analysis has been shown to support their independence as well.

A couple interesting facts about the Trioceros genus is that this is the only genus where annulated true horns have been seen (although not all species have them) and viviparity is thought to have evolved 3 independent times (in the affinis, bitaeniatus and werneri groups).

Anyway, I'd highly recommend people read Klaver & Boehme, 1986 and Tilbury & Tolley, 2009 if they are interested in this type of stuff.

Chris

 

[Damaranum]

thanks Chris,
I haven't rea the Tilbury and Tolley due to time issues.
The chromosome research is really interesting, the only thing what makes it difficult for regular people is that this technique can't be help. With some species it would also be usefull for determinating species.

 

[drewtt]

Anyway, I'd highly recommend people read Klaver & Boehme, 1986 and Tilbury & Tolley, 2009 if they are interested in this type of stuff.

Chris

Chris, what journal was this article by T&T (2009) in?

Drew

 

[eisentrauti]

If you send me your email adress via pm I can send the article to you

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris, what journal was this article by T&T (2009) in?

Drew

Zootaxa.

Chris

 

[Trace]

Huh?!?!? I leave for a few days to jump up at Caribana (have I mentioned how much I LOVE LOVE LOVE carnival ) and come home to people camped out on my floor. Methinks I'm going to need a bigger place.

Jared: I couldn't have asked for a better interim owner for these guys. Seriously.

Without detracting from your thread, several people have asked for updated pics of my goetzei (I haven't taken many lately) so here's a couple that turned out okay from the last shoot.

Cheers and thanks,

Da T

 

[Cainschams]

LOL!!! I will let you tell all of them when they finally arrive (soon I hope). Sounds like you will be fending them off for months

Turned out ok??? Those are beautiful shots!!!! They make mine look like a 2nd grader took them hahahahah! I was also surprised that no one have asked me why the girls I have arent white They only turn white when sleeping. Obviously you have the magic touch.

I hope you had fun shakin your bootay!!!!!!! TTYL.

 

[laurie]

Cain you are you super man to be able to part with those little girls. I could come steal them but you are completely correct, Trace is the one person in the world who should have them. Damn I think I hate you both, no wait I think I love you both, oh I am so conflicted. Good that I don't have a decision like that to make.

I do know that I love all the pictures!! Thanks

 

[Cainschams]

A few shots fom today.

 

[laurie]

Now wait a minute, how are you taking pictures of little angels that Trace has???? Did you go visit or are you holding out on me and kept a couple for yourself???? You know if you have them you are only a plane trip away???

 

[merumontanus]

Awesome closeups, Jared. They look better every day.

Cheers,

Fabián

 

[ciafardo 4]

Now wait a minute, how are you taking pictures of little angels that Trace has???? Did you go visit or are you holding out on me and kept a couple for yourself???? You know if you have them you are only a plane trip away???

He's shaddy wITH these guess trace is the only person allowed to have them.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

great work, thanks for sharing

 

[Cainschams]

The ladies from today.


Terrible pic of this one shedding. Looking very vibrant. To bad I cant catch it on the photo.

This girl is going to be shedding any day now.

 

[laurie]

Jared they will never cease to fascinate me. No hope of ever getting them to Trace? Not that it is a hardship on you to keep them.

 

[Cainschams]

Jared they will never cease to fascinate me. No hope of ever getting them to Trace? Not that it is a hardship on you to keep them.

They are such awesome little chams for not being Kinyongia species I hope to obtain some more bitan complex species soon There is still hope for her to get them. I hope to get my butt up to Canada to show her and Drew how to partaay sometime soon!