Urgent advice needed!

tokyogasmask

New Member
Hi!

I collected my long awaited first Chameleon yesterday, and things went down hill from the moment I got home.
I could really do with some advice before it's too late!

First off this may be long and full of typical beginner errors, but that's exactly what I am a beginner, so please stick with me.

Here is the situation.

I picked up a "young adult" Veiled Chameleon (female) yesterday from a reptile store about 8 hours drive away from me.
In the store it was being kept in what looks like a bird cage with a 2nd female.

They both seemed happy, and look healthy as I could see (i'm no expert) they were both a nice pale shade of green with some while lines on their body.

I picked the healthier one of the two from what I could see.
They have been fed on roaches and crickets and take from the shop keepers fingers (and mine).

The shop is a reptile store so it is very hot in there.
Their water supply for the few months they have been in the store has been from a small plastic box of water with an air pump hose going into it to make the water bubble.

So I now have the Chameleon packed in a small (25x25x25cm) cardboard box with newspaper inside.
I drove with the box on the passenger seat for 8 hours until I arrived home.

The enclosure I was sold with it is brand new reptile enclosure 60cm high, 60cm wide, and 45cm deep. It has a mesh top and mesh left and right sides.
Back is a glass panel, and front is sliding glass doors.

Inside is a Yukka plant, and various fake plants and a "Zoomed" bendy stick thing that I have zigzagged to make perches for her the main one being horizontal and about 4" from the top of the cage.

There is a heating pad that slides in a slot at the bottom of the tank, and A basking lamp that is on the outside of the cage pointing down on one side about 2-3" from the cage mesh. (so about 7" total distance from the main perch)

I also have a twin strip light with 2 Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulbs in also on top of the cage.

Here is my problem.
The Chameleon looks really bad since I got her home.
I got home 1am in the morning, so had to set up the tank the best I could in the little time I had.

The temperature in the room (and I assume the tank) dropped to about 18-20c
And this morning the thermometer that is placed in the yukka plant base about 6" off the floor still says 20c.

When I say she looks bad she is a lot darker green than she was in the store.
When you go anywhere near the enclosure she turns super dark and seems to almost suck her stomach in becoming really thin and her sken goes really wrinkly like a shriveled up fruit.

I am confused and don't know what to do, and I hope you guys can guide me!

Oh just to add, I am not using the drinking method they used in the store as I have no air pump at the moment.
I have been misting at intervals throughout today.
She is also still taking crickets from my fingers. She has so far had about 3 in the morning and 2 so far this afternoon.

Please help!
 
PLEASE FILL OUT THE FOLLOWING AND INCLUDE PIC IN RESPONSE
(note-sometimes chameleons stress in a new enclosure and show darker colors while stressed, as long as your husbandry and care is correct you may want to wait about a week before getting to worried, as some chams take a week or two to get comfortable in a new environment.
You may want to offer more crickets each day, as young chameleons usually eat 10-15 crickets a day (cricket size varies with age and size) but once again, some chameleons take time to transition to the new routine, environment, etc... so please fill out the form and include a pic so we may better assist you.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 
I would agree. If eating and drinking fine and your temp etc setup are correct. Urates are white etc and is not sleeping during the day and sleeping at night fine. the darker colors could be stress from becoming acclimated to new home/enviro. Also dont forget to gutload and supplement/dusting also.
 
Seems like she is just a little stressed from the trip and the new home :)

One thing id suggest is a dripper :) and take her ourside every now and then if its nice and sunny, just make sure you supervise it with a little shade :)
 
Seems like she is just a little stressed from the trip and the new home :)

One thing id suggest is a dripper :)
Are you slightly dusting the crickets?

And take her outside every now and then if its nice and sunny, just make sure you supervise it with a little shade :)
 
Let me see......an actually "reptile store" and they're using a "plastic box" for the water with an air hose.....yea, ok

And they sold you a heat mat......ok.....what is she suppose to do, sit on the floor and warm her tummy up??


At least shes eating and drinking..both good signs. The color is most likely from the stress of being shipped and then at 1am being taken out and handled.....she was most likely sleeping.....
She probably wasnt fed properly in the store, so that wrinkly skin will hopefully fill out with some good feedings......what kinda vitamins/calcium are you giving her??

Keep us posted and feed her as much as she'll eat....
 
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I would also say you are doing fine. Pics would help, the more foliage she has to help her settle in the better. Maybe leave her a little very shallow water dish for a while if that's what she's used to. Everybody gets stressed out like this when they get a Cham home :), I would just personally go against the advice to get her out for some Sun (it's very valuable, and good advice in general) - just because she will need some time to settle in. I would give her a week with no handling, and little viewing if she looks annoyed at you.......she's hand feeding though, so she's not to nervous of you to eat, that's a very promising sign, keep up the good work :)
I probably already posted this to you when I spoke to you before, so I may just be repeating myself.......https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html There is a part 2 with gutloading info too.......
 
The heating pad should be removed. It serves no purpose. I would only use the one 5.0 reptisun and keep the other one for a spare. Most of use one 5,0 with great success. Those lights should be changed out every 6 months or so, just so you know.
 
Thanks for all the great advice people!

I have put the infrared heat lamp (zoomed) on as a main heat source, as it seems the basking lamp is only 40watts and was just not putting enough heat out.

The enclosure has warmed up nicely now, and has a cooler area on the left, and even cooler left bottom.

Since doing that she has been a little more active and seems to have a little more calmer attitude, not cowering in fear so much.

She has fed on more crickets too until she couldn't eat more.
They are dusted with "Sticky tongue farms" calcium powder without D3.

I also moved the enclosure from the living room, to a large open wardrobe in the spare room to give her some peace.

Here is the setup right now:
nx46u0.jpg


Here she is: (see what I mean about being very dark?)
9696yx.jpg


What are these white bits on her? Shedding?
2a5bq54.jpg


And this is what I am dusting her food with: (I think it is OK)
161aoar.jpg
 
That poor girl, glad she found someone that cares for her.

Love that enclosure......what brand is it?

Just keep feeding as much as she'll take and give her variety....may even want to give her a good number of wax worms just to beef her up.......
 
Look like you have it all nicely sorted :), which gnome is that then? Probably don't need the 2 reptisuns on, 5.0 is plenty, as long as she spends plenty of time towards the top of her tank (so put the foliage close to the uvb). It is healthier for them to be kept at a cooler 80-82F for basking, and to limit their food intake to less than they want, especially for female veileds. I agree that you don't need the heatmat too.
She does look a tiny bit sunken eyed maybe? Have you seen her drink? Nothing to worry about, but I think a couple of waxworms might help her to settle in too. I advise no more than 1 per day, to make sure you don't turn her fussy, and they are just for a treat/ hydration anyway.
 
she looks thin.....feed her good. throw about 15 cricks a day....

She does look a bit thin - I should qualify what I said before to add that you should put them on a pretty strict diet when they are looking properly healthy and eating well. Your girl does look like she needs a good feed, so let her have as much as she wants to help her settle in as well.......of course variety in feeders is good, but at least 80% well gutloaded crickets is what you want really
 
Love the setup!!, ya i agree she is on the thinner side, i would definitely beef her up a bit. In her favor she doesnt look to have any signs of the classic MBD from poor husbandry at the Pet shop, so that's a good thing. I wanted to add that she looks like she is retaining a shed, this could be causing some extra stress along with the adjustments of the new environment. You may want to make sure she gets really hydrated and beefs up so she can stretch out of that old skin.
Other then that, the setup looks like a great start, and im sure she will start showing signs of getting comfortable etc.. soon
 
Again, thanks for all your replies.

The situation is still worrying me and it's all getting confusing and I fear my confusion is going to make the situation worse.

So I think it's best I try explain the situation clearer.

Here is the Sickness form I have filled out:


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled, female, age I do not know, but from nose to vent is about 20cm(ish) Was purchased on Sunday 25th then driven 8 hours home where I arrived at around 1am where it went straight into it's new home.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Minimal. Only time I have handled it is moving into enclosure from box, and once after a hydration shower.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
The shop was feeding it Roaches and crickets, not sure about if or what they were gut loading. they were feeding 3 or 4 every couple of days.
I have fed on the monday (next day after brining it home) about 5 crickets dusted with "miner-all". (no D3)


Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
See above

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
The shop had a bowl of water with an airline in producing bubbles of which it was drinking from.
Since getting her home, I don't want to use this method, so I have been using a DIY dripper dripping luke warm water from the top of cage bouncing of some leaves into a trap tub. I have also been hand misting the enclosure 2 or 3 times throughout the day for around 1-2 minutes.
I have also provided the air pump/bowl method as in the shop after a few days of not seeing her drink and her looking (in my unexperienced opinion) a little dehydrated.


Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.
all I have seen so far is 2 1.5cm white sausages.

Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
I asked the store and they said it is clear of parasites.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
She is wild caught and was kept in a bird cage with one other female. when getting her at the store, even though the keeping conditions didn't look right, she appeared to be in good health, a nice color and eating from fingers. I believe the shop war NOT misting the cage, only providing the said water bowl method.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Cage is a Japanese branded reptile enclosure that is 60cm tall, 60cm wide and 45cm deep. It has glass sliding front panels, metal mesh sides and top, and a glass back panel that I have replaced with a matt green plastic panel

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
2 x 20watt repti-sun 5.0 UVB (I only use one), Zoomed 60watt basking lamp, and a zoomed 160watt red night light heater bulb. The UVB, and basking lamp go on at 10am till 10pm. The red heater bulb is on a thermostat and only comes on when the temp drops below what I want.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Temps are 28-29c at the basking area, and around 23c around the bottom of the cage. Night temps are around 20c. I am using a digital thermometer to measure around the basking area, and a good analogue thermometer near the bottom.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Humidity is at around 63% and is measured using a digital thermometer/hydrometer. The misting seems to keep this humidity.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Quite well planted using a live Yukka plant, and various silk/plastic plants.

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Enclosure is kept in a big wardrobe (without a door) in a spare empty room.
no fans, it is next to my living room, but she has no line of sight with any people (she did in the shop as she was placed up high near the store tills.
The top of the cage is at 180cm from the floor.
I am located in Hokkaido, Japan.


So the problem...

Since day 1, she has been very dark (almost black at times) and cowers in fear when anything approaches the enclosure.
When people approach, she seems to shrink. She makes her body go very thin, and it goes very wrinkly.

Her first day in my home (monday) she readily took 5 Crickets from my fingers.
She has not eaten since. (not Thursday afternoon) I have tried offering her food, she seems to cower away from them. So I try dropping them in her enclosure she isn't touching them.

I have been providing 3 means of her drinking, but I haven't seen her drink anything (she may be, but i have not seen it)

Night time when all the lights are out, I sneaked a look and she way a beautiful spearmint green color. that all changed come morning time. Back to being very very dark greenish black.

After being told she looks a little dehydrated, I was advised on how to give her a shower in my bath. Yesterday I did this and within seconds she was displaying amazing colors and looked full of life! She sat on my hands for 5 minutes with these great colors, when I put her back in the cage she went dark again.

Today is the same thing ultra dark, and shrinking when I get close. Now her color is pretty much dark brown with some dark green spots on her sides.

I am also a little worried that she has some crusty white bits around her body (like dead skin). You can see it in the pictures I posted on page 1 of this thread.

I understand it is stressful moving to a new home, and that's fine, but I would have thought by now she would be showing signs of getting used to her home. But now with not eating it is worrying me.

I want the best for this gorgeous girl, I have kept some incredibly difficult fish with success in the past, and I was sure I was up for the challenge of bringing up a Chameleon.
But all this is knocking my confidence and making me feel all is going wrong!

Please help again guys!

Thanks again for your time.
 
Ok, she is wild caught....this makes a difference, she is bound to take longer to settle in. If you are very worried about her eating then a couple of worms or flies will probably get her eating something. 4 days is not too much to worry about yet. I am not 100% sure of course, but I see nothing particularly worrying yet, so try not to panic :)
Again, the gutloaded crickets are much better for her than flies or mealworms/ waxworms. Could you get Calciworms or butterworms or silkworms? Variety is always best anyway..........
 
quote: all I have seen so far is 2 1.5cm white sausages.

there are two parts to their fecal matter. One that is brown, which is the poop and one that is white which is the urate or pee. Maybe you missed a part of the poop as it will tend to come apart sometimes and separate from the poop. It could be hiding! lol If the urate is white then that is a good sign. An orange urate is not. What temp is your heat light set at to go on? And can you put that is Faranheit? lol!!! When they sleep and are relaxed they are always the most beautiful! We all wish our chams could look like their sleeping colors all the time!
 
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