Urgent help needed. Weird swelling behind panther head. Please look and help me.

[djfishygillz]

Several things.
Those green cubes for gutloading are crap.

You need to use fresh fruits and veggies. Sandrachameleon has a good blog on gut loading.

Next, if you are referring to the swelling behind the fat pads of the head, that is not normal, if you are talking about the fat pads on the top of the head, he is just very well fed, and could even due with a diet perhaps.

Also, your supplement schedule is all wrong.

There is no evidence that repashy causes edema, and I use it on all my chams.

You are under supplementing him.

You need to be giving the repashy several times a week, OR get a calcium with no d3 for every feeding, a calcium with d3 for twice a month, and a multivitamin for twice a month.

I may not have been totally right but I at least knew those green things were crap lol... I tried those way back and my crickets wouldn't even touch them.

 

[camimom]

I may not have been totally right but I at least knew those green things were crap lol... I tried those way back and my crickets wouldn't even touch them.

I heard of a cham that died from ingesting one of those things. Its just not good. in any sense of the word.

 

[Adashek123]

dang:/ wel i guess ill switch off of them then.. I looked up sandras gutload or whatever its called but seems so complicated. what works for you guys? thank you guys for your help, I really do appreciate it. I was just very worried as it almost looked like a tumor or something!! but its not growing or anything and does indeed seem like its just fat. Happy thanksgiving everyonee! (well its 12 minutes after 12 but oh well)

 

[sandrachameleon]

have not read all the comments carefully - im in a rush

I suggest you read up on gutloading. The orange urate is a bad sign - and likely you are seeing a little edema, likely connected to the same issue. more water, as a start.
Id like more info about the trouble he has with his tongue.

Repashy calcium plus once a week is entirely adequate, IF you are offering a wide range of well gutloaded prey (which you currently are not)

 

[Adashek123]

well honestly theres really nothing wrong with his tongue. its just that my other big ambanja is huge and his tongue is like 12 inches long but this red ambilobe can only flick it out like 7 inches or so and if the cricket is further then that, he will miss. it is no biggie, he has always been like that. but i don't think its edema. the only puffy part is right behind his head before the spikes. How do you gutload your chams? whats the easiest way? thanks everyone!

 

[Adashek123]

I also use repashys super pig as a gutload, the crickets eat it all within a day! lol but I do understand that its not enough of a gutload for them. what else should I use? bug burger from repashys? just let me know about the average gutload that you or someone you know would use for their chams and I will get on it! thanks

 

[sandrachameleon]

I also use repashys super pig as a gutload, the crickets eat it all within a day! lol but I do understand that its not enough of a gutload for them. what else should I use? bug burger from repashys? just let me know about the average gutload that you or someone you know would use for their chams and I will get on it! thanks

bug burger is fairly popular. As are cricket crack, and dino fuel.
Any of these along with fresh vegetables etc would work well. more info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/823-august-2013-dry-gutload-mix.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/697-dry-gutload-mix-august-2012.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/659-green-leafy-goodness-gutloading.html

 

[Adashek123]

your technique sounds amazing... but just too much for me to do as I don't even have access to half those things you mentioned to mix with it unless i really took my time to find it. Ill probably feed my crickets carrots and seaweed maybe and then ill get the dino fuel or bug burger to go along with it... let me know if that sounds okay. thanks for all the help!

 

[Oliviabryant]

your technique sounds amazing... but just too much for me to do as I don't even have access to half those things you mentioned to mix with it unless i really took my time to find it. Ill probably feed my crickets carrots and seaweed maybe and then ill get the dino fuel or bug burger to go along with it... let me know if that sounds okay. thanks for all the help!

If you don't have "time" to do things the right way, you should re arrange your schedule. It's like saying you are to busy to feed a human child vegetables or a homemade meal so you give them mcdonalds everyday. It may not kill them but it's surely not a proper diet. It sounds like a lot of work at first but once you get the routine down you won't even think twice about it.

 

[sandrachameleon]

your technique sounds amazing... but just too much for me to do as I don't even have access to half those things you mentioned to mix with it unless i really took my time to find it. Ill probably feed my crickets carrots and seaweed maybe and then ill get the dino fuel or bug burger to go along with it... let me know if that sounds okay. thanks for all the help!

well, how about the bug burger AND the dino fuel to sprinkle on veggies, and alternate their use. Carrots alone aren't going to be sufficient, IMHO. But I assume you personally must eat vegetables and fruit? So Its not difficult to take a piece of the squash or yam you steam for dinner, or a chunk of the apple you had with lunch, or occasionally a few leaves of greens from you salad, a segment of the orange you had for breakfast, etc. Alfalfa is beyond easy to get. So are nuts and seeds. Its really NOT complicated or time consuming to gutload.

 

[TruBlu]

stop asking for advice then not act upon it. you took the responsibility of looking after these animals ....so stop being lazy.its really not difficult

 

[ridgebax1]

well honestly theres really nothing wrong with his tongue. its just that my other big ambanja is huge and his tongue is like 12 inches long but this red ambilobe can only flick it out like 7 inches or so and if the cricket is further then that, he will miss. it is no biggie, he has always been like that. but i don't think its edema. the only puffy part is right behind his head before the spikes. How do you gutload your chams? whats the easiest way? thanks everyone!

You don't gutload your chameleon, you gutload your bugs. Making a dry gut load for your bugs is not hard nor is it time consuming. If you do not have a grocery store with an organic section where many of these ingredients are available you can save time and travel and order them from amazon and have them delivered directly to your door. Then open box, open packages, dump in bowl, mix and put in a container. Not hard not time consuming, it makes a lot. Put some in the freezer so it won't spoil.

You decided to have chameleons, you have to take care of them properly or they will die. Often slowly and painfully. The folks on here are great and have a lot of knowledge so listen to what they say. Not having time is a poor excuse for providing poor care. Not knowing is one thing but this is another and not fair to your animals. I started out with an adult male who died after a year and a half of mediocre care at my hands. I thought I was taking good care of him. I did not get him at a big box pet store but a local one with folks who seemed to know what they were talking about but they didn't. He got MBD and who knows what else but the last 24 hours of his life is nothing I EVER want to experience again. Now that said does not mean i am perfect but my husbandry is better and it is better thanks to the folks here on these forums. You need to follow their advice.

I have a corner in my dining room full of various and sundry bugs, bug food and other bug related items. I have roaches in my house and worms in my refrigerator. I just started thread noting the bugs eat (and subsequently the chams) eat better than I do. If you do not want the responsibility of caring properly for these animals then find them new homes. I am not trying to be mean but these animals (and any pet) are totally at the mercy of their keepers. They did not knock on your door and ask to live with you, YOU sought them out so with that comes great responsibility. There is nothing wrong with saying I made a mistake and right now my life does not fit with this responsibility but to shirk ones responsibilty to these animals to me is very low. It honestly is not that hard or time consuming once you get a routine in place and seeing your cham eat something you raised is quite satisfying.

 

[Adashek123]

wow people...

really ????? LOL I don't want to listen to ANYONE calling me lazy because I don't want to mix 20+ items off sandras blog?? Its a great blog (no offense to you sandra, i just can't mix that much stuff.. such a long list and unnecessary to use all that IMHO) , but I AM NOT going to sit here and have people say I am not taking advice , when I am and saying I don't take good care of my chams when I've never even had a reptile die on me besides a baby green tree that was sold to me sick.. I've already started giving my crickets some of the veggies and fruits sandra mentioned, but alot of that stuff you have to go to health food stores, and sorry, im just not going to do that. trueblu, if your going to comment negatively with no advice at all then I suggest you BEAT it. I write these huge comments describing my situation in great detail and you write 2 sentences with no advice at all when this thread is for advice, so who is the lazy one? you. I take care of my chams very well and Ive saved my first male from a really bad URI on my own, with baytril (not from vet) and have never had any health issues since then besides this one and his orange turds. but hey everyone makes mistakes. I take pride in what I do, but I just don't think its necessary to waste my time and go to all these weird health stores to get stuff when I get just get dino fuel, bug burger and a few others. If you don't think thats enough, then thats just your opinoin so don't comment negatively. saying I ask for advice and don't do anything about it when I already made several changes to my gutloads and supplementation schedule. I appreciate everyone who comments with helpful advice but don't piss me off with this laziness stuff when I bust my butt for them.. I will get both gutloads suggested by sandra and feed with NORMAL HOUSEHOLD vegtables and fruits... not crazy bee pollen or whatever, I have enough allergies here. thanks

 

[Adashek123]

ridgebax1 thanks for the advice, but my chams are fine. I DO gutload my crickets and when I dust alot, just not at every single feeding. I'm also getting another supplement without d3. I'm not going to kill my chams by not giving them an insane gutload schedule for their feeders. SORRY! lol just won't happen. Ima get dino fuel, bug burger, and some veggies and fruits and maybe some water cubes and Ill be good I have a vet appt scheduled with red boy so we will see whats up with this fat thats right behind head, and right before the first spike sits

 

[Adashek123]

This is what sandra said:

"bug burger is fairly popular. As are cricket crack, and dino fuel.
Any of these along with fresh vegetables etc would work well. "

and I clearly said thats what I'm going to do , just not the whole BLOG.


so why are people calling me lazy and saying I don't have time? I was being so nice until those rude comments
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adashek123 View Post
I also use repashys super pig as a gutload, the crickets eat it all within a day! lol but I do understand that its not enough of a gutload for them. what else should I use? bug burger from repashys? just let me know about the average gutload that you or someone you know would use for their chams and I will get on it! thanks
bug burger is fairly popular. As are cricket crack, and dino fuel.
Any of these along with fresh vegetables etc would work well. more info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...utloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...tload-mix.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...gust-2012.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs...utloading.html

 

[sandrachameleon]

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Id like to think I provided non-judgemental assistance, and I do hope you consider following it. 90% of what is in my blog is found in normal stores, not specialty stores.

People on this forum care a great deal about their chameleons. They want the best for them, not second best, and consider caring for their chameleons a responsibility worth the effort. And so it is perhaps understandable if people react and suggest you might be lazy if you say you cant be bothered to mix a few things together (takes maybe a hour every couple months) and suggest those of us who do so are crazy.

Im not sure why you felt it is necessary to post all my forum details? You're not making friends with that kind of behaviour.

good luck at the vet appointment - hopefully you can get some easy to follow advice for the edema (or whatever it is) and red is all good

 

[Psychobunny]

ridgebax1 thanks for the advice, but my chams are fine. I DO gutload my crickets and when I dust alot, just not at every single feeding. I'm also getting another supplement without d3. I'm not going to kill my chams by not giving them an insane gutload schedule for their feeders. SORRY! lol just won't happen. Ima get dino fuel, bug burger, and some veggies and fruits and maybe some water cubes and Ill be good I have a vet appt scheduled with red boy so we will see whats up with this fat thats right behind head, and right before the first spike sits

Dont need to get neurotic about gut loading, just make it simple.

Get some Repashy Bug Burger and use that, plus throw in some carrots, greens like Romain and mustard, a few slices of squash, whatever fresh veggie you have laying around, slice of orange, apple, etc.

It's not "rocket science", and the bug burger has everything already in it. It just needs a little help with a few other veggies, that's all

PS: they dont need water cubes. The bug burger has enough water in it for them, so do the fresh veggies.

 

[camimom]

You dont have to buy every single ingredient from sandra's blogs.
I dont.

I buy whatever i can find in my local stores. I use Giant, Shoppers, Wegmans, Harris teeter as my grocery stores, and they all carry most of what is in the blogs.

I made gutload yesterday for my roaches, i used carrots, lettuce (just for water) apples, a sweet potato, cranberries, dandilion leaves, and mustard greens because i had that laying around my house.

the next time i make gutload, in like a month or so, ill change it up, and get whatever it is i can find in the veggie section at the store.

 

[Adashek123]

sandra trust me, i take all your advice. its 100 percent good advice. The reason i posted your details is because i wanted to show people what you told me to do and that i chose to do it that same way. i got bug burger, dino fuel, and now will be using veggies and fruits of all kinds. and still like 4 people commented calling me LAzY and saying my chams are going to die if i don't gutload properly and that i shouldn't of bought chams if i cant provide for them when i can.... lol little do they know that ive had chams for a very long time and ive never had a cham die on me..not trying to insult but i have actually saved 2 chameleons lives, one was literally already dead but i saved him and hes my first even panther from years ago,the red bar ambilobe. dumb propaganda. thats why i put those commenters in their place, im not looking to make friends with negative people like that.


i still don't understand ridebax1 long pointless comment... heres the funniest quote in the comment:

"you don't gutload your chameleon, you gutload your bugs..."

my response: duh? you think i gutload my chameleon through the mouth or something? why even comment ? telling me to SELL my pets? i can bet you i take care of my chams better then you do, husbandry wise and handling and all the general stuff like lighting, heating, humidity, etc.. just because you think you gutload better then i do doesn't mean that i need to sell my pets to people and try to put me down and make me look like i don't know what Im doing... you on that wacky cracky or something man??? lol come on. I work my butt off with my little soldiers because they are part of my passion. G.O.M.D. your acting like one of those weird moms that feeds their kids ONLY raw veggies and watches after their every move.. which stresses them out even more. I SAID i WILL gutload with dino fuel and bug burger and many veggies and fruits... is that not enough for you Mr. king chameleon keeper???LOL are you really that ignorant? would you like me to go purchase stuff like bee pollen too and a million other things??? then why did you even comment.......... HAHA foreal?

imho i think dino fuel, with the combination or bug burger and approved fruits and veggies will be just enough


thanks to everyone that has left me helpful advice! i really appreciate it

 

[sandrachameleon]

.... The reason i posted your details is because i wanted to show people what you told me to do and that i chose to do it that same way.

thanks for explaining.

i got bug burger, dino fuel, and now will be using veggies and fruits of all kinds.

sounds great - and yes I still think that's totally fine - and not lazy
Maybe they picked up on other parts of the thread and missed this info.