Veiled Chameleon-White Spots

[Evensen0316]

I will start to get some distilled water! My fogger is no longer in my enclosure. It’s now in a corner of my room so I’m hoping I can still use tap water their and use distilled in the enclosure? Also my basking light fixture has a dim mode so this morning I was trying to find a good temp. My basking area is a bit further than the distance I have my probe in this pic. So basking temp shouldn’t get higher than 95° now. I marked on my dial to only turn the light up this much now.

 

[Beman]

I will start to get some distilled water! My fogger is no longer in my enclosure. It’s now in a corner of my room so I’m hoping I can still use tap water their and use distilled in the enclosure? Also my basking light fixture has a dim mode so this morning I was trying to find a good temp. My basking area is a bit further than the distance I have my probe in this pic. So basking temp shouldn’t get higher than 95° now. I marked on my dial to only turn the light up this much now.

You do not want basking to be any hotter than 80-85 max if you have a female it has to be no hotter than 80. Tie in the probe at the basking branch to get an accurate reading. Ensure temps are correct. If a cham sits too close in high heat they will end up with a thermal burn.

You can use whatever water you want to just know that it will cause long term damage to equipment. The mineral buildup causes the equipment to stop working. Depending on how hard your water is this may mean replacing equipment a few times a year. This is the main reason why keepers do not use tap water. It can get expensive having to replace equipment like foggers or misting systems.

 

[Evensen0316]

I will tie my probe under basking spot and try to get a good reading! Luckily I can turn my dial down if it’s still too warm!

 

[Evensen0316]

You do not want basking to be any hotter than 80-85 max if you have a female it has to be no hotter than 80. Tie in the probe at the basking branch to get an accurate reading. Ensure temps are correct. If a cham sits too close in high heat they will end up with a thermal burn.

You can use whatever water you want to just know that it will cause long term damage to equipment. The mineral buildup causes the equipment to stop working. Depending on how hard your water is this may mean replacing equipment a few times a year. This is the main reason why keepers do not use tap water. It can get expensive having to replace equipment like foggers or misting systems.

I let my probe sit At basking spot for 5 mins and temp didn’t go above 81° hoping this will be good! I’ll mark my dial so I know where to set the brightness of heat light.

 

[bbyoda]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Female Veiled, 4 days.

Again, love that you are improving her care right after you got her, this is how you prevent big husbandry issues from making her sick or potentially her dying from a disease or issue that can be avoided.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Only when changing things in enclose

They generally don't like to be handled but some chameleons can definitely learn to trust and start to associate you with food and even with free range time. Here's a great blog post on how to develop that trust: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Crickets 10-15, I use repashy super load and some flukers cricket quencher for hydration.

Definitely expand the variety of feeders. Repashy super load can definitely work for feeders. I prefer fresh veggies. I'll attach the feeder variety and gutload charts which I imagine might've already been shared with you. Check out sponsors for other feeders like silkworms, roaches, black soldier fly larvae. I like ordering crickets from Josh's Frogs or Ghanns because they don't make as much noise, are free of parasites, and live a bit longer than crickets you get at Petsmart and Petco (which have a cross-contamination/parasite risk).

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

First day I had her I fed her with Repashy Superfoods Calcium Plus LoD, I believe that has D3. Other than that day I dust with Repti calcium without D3 each feeding. I’ll use the repashy again later this month.

Glad to hear you are using calcium without D3 each feeding and using the LoD (which is also a multivitamin) 2x a month. This is a good supplement schedule, just keep an eye on expiration dates and make sure you replace them when needed. Given this and your humidity levels I'm aligned with Beman that the use of tap water might be contributing to the issue with the white shed spots.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

I use a spray bottle and mist the tank with that a few times a day to keep humidity up and for water. I actually like using my fogger because the hose actually drips water like a water dropper. I have seen her drink off leaves.

Chameleons can be secretive drinkers so it's special that you've seen her drinking! Many folks here (myself included) love using the Mist King system because you can automate mistings and that really helps with humidity and keeping things consistent for your chameleons. I know you're using the fogger in the room rather than the cage now. I think either way you need to ensure you're using the right tools to measure humidity and temperature because that's the baseline needed to troubleshoot and get within the optimal ranges. While it's important to maintain humidity you also want the cage to dry out during the day to prevent bad bacteria from growing and hanging around.

If you want to learn more about hydration cycles and options, check out: https://chameleonacademy.com/basics-hydration-for-chameleons/
Your situation is very different from mine given your geographic location. I do 90 seconds in the morning before the basking light comes on and in the afternoon after the basking light goes off, and that works well for me.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

First scat I saw was moist and the urine was white with a little yellow at one end. All moist. No parasite testing that I know of.

keeping an eye out for poops is so important - it lets you know your chameleon is eating and if they're hydrated or not, and will give you clues to adjust husbandry as needed. a little yellow at one end is OK but for a young chameleon that is going to the bathroom more often you want to see firm white urates. adults have a little bit of yellow/orange since they go a few days without pooping since they're eating/growing less. Parasite testing is a good idea, it's important to get a vet visit in early on so you can get in easier in the case of an emergency. Do you already have a vet in mind? Not every vet is experienced with chameleons so if you aren't sure, let us try and find or recommend one for you.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Got her from pet co so don’t know much..

Very important for you to do a parasite test in this case. Petco and Petsmart usually will move crickets between enclosures as pets are sold so that can cross-contaminate.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

24x24x48 screen

This size is great!! A hybrid cage might help with your humidity challenges, but in the meantime, you can wrap a shower curtain around the left, right, and back sides of the cage to keep the humidity inside.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

I’m not positive what UVB light I have, but I do know I ordered this one after I got a link from someone in forums. I do believe it’s the light you had just mentioned. Basking light is a 50w tekizoo. Schedule is 8-8.

12 hours on and off is good. You want a T5HO 5% linear UVB light. The compact bulbs just don't give enough UVB and that can cause issues like Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) which disfigure and can kill chameleons. You will probably want to get plant lights as well - that will keep plants happy and give your chameleon light to see better. They rely on their vision a lot! Check out this product guide for lights that could work for you - also, lots of great discussions in the forum archives if you want to learn more about this. https://caskabove.com/lighting-resources

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Currently this in my opinion is my biggest issue. I have no way to see what temps are under basking light and bottom of tank. Thermostat at middle of cage says 81° My basking light fixture has a dial so I can dim my basking light for cooler temps if I need. I just need to get something to check my temps.

So you mentioned 91 at basking with your new thermometer. That is a bit too high for your Veiled. Aim for 80-82 at basking for your girl, this will ensure her egg clutches aren't too big, which puts great strain on their bodies and can reduce their life span. You want a gradient so temps decrease toward the bottom of the cage so you get a range of 72-78ish. How much distance is there between the branch and top of the cage? Does the heat bulb sit right on the cage top, or do you have it on a riser? Here's the page for options for thermometers and hygrometers: https://caskabove.com/additional-needs I have a probe at the basking branch and a Govee toward the bottom of the cage to measure temps/humidity overnight and over time as well.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

I have a zoomed hygrometer, I mist with spray bottle and use a fogger a few times a day to keep humidity where it needs to be. It seams like my enclosure has a hard time staying over 50% so I leave my fogger on low all night.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

All live plants, I have a marble pothos and focus benjamina. I also have a couple smaller plants that are cham safe I’m not sure the names.

Pothos and ficus benjamina are great! Here is a Veiled safe plant list so you can see what other safe options are out there. I particularly enjoy nepenthes, the pitcher plant. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Chameleon-Plants-061321.pdf

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Located in my bedroom, no fans or vents. The only traffic are my girlfriend and I. Dogs or cats may wander into my room but I try keeping them out. Enclosure is maybe a foot from top of my room. (I can’t raise my lights because the tank is up so high)

Chameleons love being up high and looking down on us, lol. No vents or fans is great as well. Keeping dogs and cats out of the room will help keep stress levels down for your girl and will be really important during egg laying periods when they need lots of privacy.

 

[Evensen0316]

I have a t5 ho 5.0 or 6.0 uvb atm, I was also able to bring basking temp down to about 82° (my fixture had a dial to dim/brighten the basking light) I have also been able to feed her crickets straight out of my hand already! I think she’s warming up to me! Their is roughly 6-8 inches from basking spot to light. It does sit right on top of the cage as my enclose goes nearly to the ceiling. I will also start to use distilled water! Was able to get a night temp of a low of probably 71° with a 50-60% humidity! (Hoping that’s good) Also I have a family friend that takes in aborted reptiles (chameleons, lizards, snakes) he does all of the medical on them. I will have him do checkups! He also works at the pet shop I got most of my things from! I will upload pics of lay bin to make sure everything is what it should be for her!

 

[Evensen0316]

Again, love that you are improving her care right after you got her, this is how you prevent big husbandry issues from making her sick or potentially her dying from a disease or issue that can be avoided.



They generally don't like to be handled but some chameleons can definitely learn to trust and start to associate you with food and even with free range time. Here's a great blog post on how to develop that trust: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/



Definitely expand the variety of feeders. Repashy super load can definitely work for feeders. I prefer fresh veggies. I'll attach the feeder variety and gutload charts which I imagine might've already been shared with you. Check out sponsors for other feeders like silkworms, roaches, black soldier fly larvae. I like ordering crickets from Josh's Frogs or Ghanns because they don't make as much noise, are free of parasites, and live a bit longer than crickets you get at Petsmart and Petco (which have a cross-contamination/parasite risk).

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Glad to hear you are using calcium without D3 each feeding and using the LoD (which is also a multivitamin) 2x a month. This is a good supplement schedule, just keep an eye on expiration dates and make sure you replace them when needed. Given this and your humidity levels I'm aligned with Beman that the use of tap water might be contributing to the issue with the white shed spots.


Chameleons can be secretive drinkers so it's special that you've seen her drinking! Many folks here (myself included) love using the Mist King system because you can automate mistings and that really helps with humidity and keeping things consistent for your chameleons. I know you're using the fogger in the room rather than the cage now. I think either way you need to ensure you're using the right tools to measure humidity and temperature because that's the baseline needed to troubleshoot and get within the optimal ranges. While it's important to maintain humidity you also want the cage to dry out during the day to prevent bad bacteria from growing and hanging around.

If you want to learn more about hydration cycles and options, check out: https://chameleonacademy.com/basics-hydration-for-chameleons/
Your situation is very different from mine given your geographic location. I do 90 seconds in the morning before the basking light comes on and in the afternoon after the basking light goes off, and that works well for me.


keeping an eye out for poops is so important - it lets you know your chameleon is eating and if they're hydrated or not, and will give you clues to adjust husbandry as needed. a little yellow at one end is OK but for a young chameleon that is going to the bathroom more often you want to see firm white urates. adults have a little bit of yellow/orange since they go a few days without pooping since they're eating/growing less. Parasite testing is a good idea, it's important to get a vet visit in early on so you can get in easier in the case of an emergency. Do you already have a vet in mind? Not every vet is experienced with chameleons so if you aren't sure, let us try and find or recommend one for you.


Very important for you to do a parasite test in this case. Petco and Petsmart usually will move crickets between enclosures as pets are sold so that can cross-contaminate.


This size is great!! A hybrid cage might help with your humidity challenges, but in the meantime, you can wrap a shower curtain around the left, right, and back sides of the cage to keep the humidity inside.


12 hours on and off is good. You want a T5HO 5% linear UVB light. The compact bulbs just don't give enough UVB and that can cause issues like Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) which disfigure and can kill chameleons. You will probably want to get plant lights as well - that will keep plants happy and give your chameleon light to see better. They rely on their vision a lot! Check out this product guide for lights that could work for you - also, lots of great discussions in the forum archives if you want to learn more about this. https://caskabove.com/lighting-resources



So you mentioned 91 at basking with your new thermometer. That is a bit too high for your Veiled. Aim for 80-82 at basking for your girl, this will ensure her egg clutches aren't too big, which puts great strain on their bodies and can reduce their life span. You want a gradient so temps decrease toward the bottom of the cage so you get a range of 72-78ish. How much distance is there between the branch and top of the cage? Does the heat bulb sit right on the cage top, or do you have it on a riser? Here's the page for options for thermometers and hygrometers: https://caskabove.com/additional-needs I have a probe at the basking branch and a Govee toward the bottom of the cage to measure temps/humidity overnight and over time as well.



Pothos and ficus benjamina are great! Here is a Veiled safe plant list so you can see what other safe options are out there. I particularly enjoy nepenthes, the pitcher plant. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Chameleon-Plants-061321.pdf


Chameleons love being up high and looking down on us, lol. No vents or fans is great as well. Keeping dogs and cats out of the room will help keep stress levels down for your girl and will be really important during egg laying periods when they need lots of privacy.

What kind of fresh veggies do you give your cham? Do you chop them up into tiny pieces? I do have a cup feeder so I can definitely feed her some veggies! I’ve also been looking at ordering some silkworms!

 

[bbyoda]

What kind of fresh veggies do you give your cham? Do you chop them up into tiny pieces? I do have a cup feeder so I can definitely feed her some veggies! I’ve also been looking at ordering some silkworms!

Sorry for any confusion here - I meant feed fresh veggies to the bugs. I feed my crickets and roaches a mix of leafy greens like kale, turnip greens, mustard greens, and collard greens and carrots and sweet potatoes. I also add in a mix of spirulina, flax seed, and bee pollen as well. Silkworms are a great choice for feeders! They eat their own chow or mulberry leaves.

You don't need to feed your chameleon veggies. They will munch on plants sometimes. No one knows why for sure but the current hypothesis is to provide some roughage with digestion. Sometimes vets will suggest putting up dandelion greens for chameleons to munch on for extra supplementation but that is rare. Best to feed them nutritious tasty bugs.

 

[bbyoda]

I have a t5 ho 5.0 or 6.0 uvb atm, I was also able to bring basking temp down to about 82° (my fixture had a dial to dim/brighten the basking light) I have also been able to feed her crickets straight out of my hand already! I think she’s warming up to me! Their is roughly 6-8 inches from basking spot to light. It does sit right on top of the cage as my enclose goes nearly to the ceiling. I will also start to use distilled water! Was able to get a night temp of a low of probably 71° with a 50-60% humidity! (Hoping that’s good) Also I have a family friend that takes in aborted reptiles (chameleons, lizards, snakes) he does all of the medical on them. I will have him do checkups! He also works at the pet shop I got most of my things from! I will upload pics of lay bin to make sure everything is what it should be for her!

Sounds like humidity is getting better!! 70% at night is ideal but again you want lower temps with that increase.

Do you mean adopted reptiles? Just make sure your friend is knowledgeable about chameleons specifically. See if he can do a fecal for parasites. If not that's a sign you need someone else.

Please upload a pic of your UVB light as well. Not sure what 6.0 UVB is but there's a shade dweller version out there that is good for geckos but not chameleons so just wanna double check that.

 

[Evensen0316]

Sorry I meant 6% not 6.0. I have an Arcadia 6% uvb. I will give him a message! What would be a good humidity at those temps? Since I’m in Wisconsin, temps drop below 30° still so our house rarely drops below 70° Do to having heat on. And yeah adopted, usually someone who can’t take care of their reptile anymore he will take them in! Ive attached a photo of my lay bin, using a mix of washed play sand and soil. I’m also curious as to if I should be spraying in the lay bin to keep it in shape for her to lay? How often should I swap the sand/soil?

 

[Evensen0316]

I also am looking to buy the hybrid dragon ledge enclosure which will help me maintain my humidity better and just have an overall better setup for Genesis!

 

[bbyoda]

Yes the hybrid dragon strand will be a huge help!! Arcadia 6% is perfect. If you're no longer fogging in the cage directly and have good air flow in the cage your chameleon should be fine at 70 degrees overnight. You can get a PC fan to increase air circulation if you're worried that your cage air is a little stagnant.

@MissSkittles can you weigh in on the laybin specific questions? I've never gone through a lay with a chameleon.

 

[MissSkittles]

Your lay bin looks/sounds ok. I drill some tiny holes in the bottom so that it can drain excess water and not turn into a muddy mess. A little sand will leak out, but once it’s in place it’s fine. The depth of the sand only needs to be around 5-6”. They will dig all the way to the bottom and making it any deeper just gives them a lot more work. It’s ok if the bin gets misted. As your girl starts looking close to laying - colors darken/deepen, plump and/or lumpy looking, starting to get a little restless, appetite may decrease - you’ll want to make sure that the lay bin substrate is moist all the way thru. It needs to be moist enough to hold a deep tunnel without collapsing. I suggest getting in there and mixing it up to make sure.
When I suspect my girls are getting ready to lay, I cover the lower part of their enclosure with a light sheet. Be careful not to block ventilation holes if you have a hybrid enclosure. Once she starts digging, she’ll need absolute privacy. If she sees anyone, she may stop digging and could become eggbound. She may dig a few different places until she likes one. Then she’ll get to work and dig all the way down (usually on the side or a corner). When she’s satisfied with her tunnel, she’ll turn around and lay her eggs. When done with that, she’ll carefully cover whatever tunnels/holes she made. You’ll know she’s done when she’s sitting in her basking spot, looking much thinner and really dirty. The whole process usually takes a couple of days and some will sleep in their tunnel. Keep your regular light schedule. If you hand mist, don’t. Instead set up a dripper over an area that the water won’t go in the bin. No need to worry about cleaning the sand/dirt off your little lady…somehow they get themselves cleaned up in a day or two. You’ll want to feed and hydrate her very well for a couple of days after. I make sure to have silkworms and hornworms available at this time.
Since laying shortens their lives, we try to reduce it thru basking temps of 80 and controlled diet of 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week (plus occasional treats of course). It may take a cycle or two for this to take effect. You’ll want to start this diet 2-3 days after she’s laid her eggs.
You’ll want to dig up the eggs and count them. We aim for low numbers, like around the 20’s. Anything over 40 is a lot - too many. The eggs are infertile and are tossed out.
I have 2 female veileds. One hasn’t laid any eggs in over 2 years now. The other has so far laid one clutch every year. I suspect she’s been triggered by seeing my male veiled, who is her forbidden love.
You don’t need to change out the lay bin substrate unless it’s gotten soiled or nasty. Poop will happen and a little bit can just be scooped out. I’m finding some chams have their special pooping spots. If yours does, avoid putting the bin below it.