Veiled or Jackson That is the question

[TStorm718]

So I'm having trouble deciding which one to get and where to get it from. I'm curious as to which one has better coloration and temperment. I know some of the answers will be biased but I'm still interested to hear your thoughts. FYI I know I want to get a male and I'd prefer to get it as a baby.

 

[wavingsnail]

All sources seem to indicate that male veileds have a 50/50 shot of being fine when young, then going through puberty and becoming quite aggressive and staying that way.

I personally love Jackson's, but they're definitely on the more subtle end of the color spectrum. Males can often have beautiful blue or turquoise tails that gradually taper to green as the tail meets the body.

The Jackson's I've known have all been very outgoing and inquisitive animals.

That being said, chameleons in general are considered to be more of a hands off pet, so if you're looking for something of bearded dragon caliber tolerance for handling, you may be barking up the wrong tree.

Also, Jackson's are a little trickier to maintain due to their lower temperature requirements. Because the area I live in is very hot and dry (triple digits from about late may to late September) I'm not comfortable with trying to keep Jackson's.

Just food for thought.

 

[Bush baby]

I loved Jacksons, but you should get a Veiled. Yes, they're much more aggressive than Jacksons are, but are easier to keep, especially if this is your first cham.

 

[TStorm718]

While it is my first cham I'm not concerned about being able to keep it healthy. I've done loads of research and plan to have his home set up and maintained for awhile before I get him. I really like the triceretops look of the Jackson but I prefer the colors more. I'm not planning on handling them too much as I know it stresses them out. Lol if only Panthers were cheaper I wouldn't even be having this convo.

Now onto my last question. Where is the best place to buy them? Petco has some baby veiled but I'd rather not buy them from there as they don't know what they are doing (the chams are in a glass tank about 18"x24"x12") Can anyone recommend somewhere to buy them? BTW I'm in Michigan so I dont have to worry about the super hot temps as it only gets in the triple digits maybe 2-4 times a year

 

[wavingsnail]

I'm not trying to come off as too brash here, but if the initial cost of a panther is too expensive, will you be able to afford any sudden (and typically not cheap) vet visits?

I've seen this approach a lot with cheaper reptiles - the idea that because the initial cost is low, maintenance will be as well.

For the most part, it's not. Unless you're breeding for profit, most reptiles are basically money pits. That's not to say that I dont love them, but it's not exactly an investment you'll ever see a return on.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

While it is my first cham I'm not concerned about being able to keep it healthy. I've done loads of research and plan to have his home set up and maintained for awhile before I get him. I really like the triceretops look of the Jackson but I prefer the colors more. I'm not planning on handling them too much as I know it stresses them out. Lol if only Panthers were cheaper I wouldn't even be having this convo.

Now onto my last question. Where is the best place to buy them? Petco has some baby veiled but I'd rather not buy them from there as they don't know what they are doing (the chams are in a glass tank about 18"x24"x12") Can anyone recommend somewhere to buy them? BTW I'm in Michigan so I dont have to worry about the super hot temps as it only gets in the triple digits maybe 2-4 times a year

I'm from Michigan. A Jackson's would love the cool weather up there. I'm originally from the U.P. Jackson care isn't all that difficult tbh. You just have to be careful with their supplementing and keep them cooler. Even if you keep them at room temp with a low watt basking bulb they're alright. Some keepers don't even use a basking bulb on them and only have UVB on them. Just think, We only have 3 months of summer and the rest is crappy cold weather You wouldn't have to stress about keeping his temps super high September through April! You could keep him cool. I love my Jackson. I recently had to down size to one Cham. I kept my Jackson over the others. They're super neat.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

I'm not trying to come off as too brash here, but if the initial cost of a panther is too expensive, will you be able to afford any sudden (and typically not cheap) vet visits?

I've seen this approach a lot with cheaper reptiles - the idea that because the initial cost is low, maintenance will be as well.

For the most part, it's not. Unless you're breeding for profit, most reptiles are basically money pits. That's not to say that I dont love them, but it's not exactly an investment you'll ever see a return on.

It's pretty common to flinch at a chameleon that costs $350-400. I think they're trying to avoid a $400 payout for a cham is all.

 

[wavingsnail]

The only reason I even mentioned it is because of a recent thread with a sick veiled where the owner more or less said that because the chameleon was only thirty five bucks, it wasn't worth the expense of taking it to the vet.

 

[Bush baby]

Try buying from Kingsnake.com. If you're not comfortable selecting and buying from a breeder on there, try FLchams.com.

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

The only reason I even mentioned it is because of a recent thread with a sick veiled where the owner more or less said that because the chameleon was only thirty five bucks, it wasn't worth the expense of taking it to the vet.

Right on. I got you.

 

[pgr7]

Jist bite the bullet and get a panther

 

[KLowery88]

Another thing to think about is buying Wild Caught (WC) vs Captive Bred and Born (CBB). There are many, many baby CBB Veiled on the market, but most Jackson's you'll find are WC. WC have their own issues you have to be aware of. I'd take a listen to the Chameleon Breeder podcast about acclimating WC chameleons, and they have an episode on Jackson's as well: http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-18-wild-caught-chameleons-acclimation/

For my first non-rescue chameleon, I went with a CBB Veiled, but once I have experience raising him up healthy, I know a Jackson's will be my second.

 

[Carlton]

Personally, I haven't found jackson's all that "outgoing and inquisitive". Mine tended to be shyer and they tended to express their reactions to something by color shift, not behavior. They are just different personalities that suited different habitats. More likely to sit quietly more of the time (makes sense, they don't really want to give themselves away). My veileds weren't super mean at all, but again I didn't expect any of my chams to be very tolerant. I didn't keep them with that in mind. My veileds tended to act out more (bluff, to posture, or even physically threaten, but none of them followed through with biting) than the jackson's did. But, watching the color shift in veileds and panthers is always amazing. Of course jackson's change color too, but it is more subtle.

Consider the setup each will want. A jax may prefer a more densely planted cage and spend less time displaying itself in full view than a veiled or panther might. Those more varied and intense color changes are meant to be noticed!

One other thing to consider about the jackson's in MI...in winter you'll be heating your house a lot, so you'll have to work harder to maintain the higher humidity a jax will want. A veiled or panther won't be as touchy.

Its a tough decision. One little thing I've sometimes used to decide between two species is to figure out which species I spend more time viewing...if given a photo of each, which one do I tend to flip back to more often and for a longer time. That's the one that intrigues me more. When I think of "chameleon" which mental image comes up first?

 

[DanSB]

Lol if only Panthers were cheaper I wouldn't even be having this convo.

I just spent 2 minutes looking and found panthers for sale at $150 and it isn't uncommon to find babies between $100 - $200.

Remember this is a live animal with a 5 plus year commitment, a good adult set up done inexpensively will be at least $200. To me the math just doesn't work out to potentially save up to 100 bucks and not get the animal you really really want. Now you may say this advice is coming from a guy with a 15 dollar chameleon. It just so happens that is the Chameleon I really wanted and have been wanting to work with for multiple years. Get the chameleon that makes you say wow. The amount of money you will save up front will be insignificant when you factor lifetime feeding, vet bills, electricity etc...

 

[pgr7]

I just spent 2 minutes looking and found panthers for sale at $150 and it isn't uncommon to find babies between $100 - $200.

Remember this is a live animal with a 5 plus year commitment, a good adult set up done inexpensively will be at least $200. To me the math just doesn't work out to potentially save up to 100 bucks and not get the animal you really really want. Now you may say this advice is coming from a guy with a 15 dollar chameleon. It just so happens that is the Chameleon I really wanted and have been wanting to work with for multiple years. Get the chameleon that makes you say wow. The amount of money you will save up front will be insignificant when you factor lifetime feeding, vet bills, electricity etc...

THIS ^ 100%

 

[Nicholasdeaan]

One other thing to consider about the jackson's in MI...in winter you'll be heating your house a lot, so you'll have to work harder to maintain the higher humidity a jax will want. A veiled or panther won't be as touchy.

I don't worry to much about humidity. I find that as long as they have plenty of drinking opportunities and 3-4 mist sessions a day, they do just fine. They don't need extreme humidity. Just a few spikes a day. Just my opinion though.

 

[TStorm718]

So I found a baby Ambanja Panther from lllreptile.com for the cheapest I have seen a Panther, after shipping its $145. There is also a blue bar Amilobe for the same price. I'm leaning towards the Ambanja but I'm still unsure lol. Man this is a hard choice.

 

[jpowell86]

Just remember that on LLLReptile.com, they do not guarantee the sex of the baby. So keep in mind that you may end up with a female.

 

[DanSB]

Just remember that on LLLReptile.com, they do not guarantee the sex of the baby. So keep in mind that you may end up with a female.

This is true, BUT, if you actually pick up the phone and call to talk to them I'm sure someone there can pick out a male for you. Granted it wouldn't be 100% but at least it would 100% be the species you're looking for.

Either way that is a good deal but not unique so don't panic if you're not ready now.

 

[wavingsnail]

Personally, I haven't found jackson's all that "outgoing and inquisitive". Mine tended to be shyer and they tended to express their reactions to something by color shift, not behavior. They are just different personalities that suited different habitats. More likely to sit quietly more of the time (makes sense, they don't really want to give themselves away). My veileds weren't super mean at all, but again I didn't expect any of my chams to be very tolerant.

The Jackson's I've "known" over the years belonged to a semi local member of a herp club I once belonged to.

His Jackson's (all five males) would march right up to the front of the enclosures any time anyone approached, and would exit the enclosures freely if given the opportunity.

Was not implying this was standard to the species, simply sharing my experience.