Veiled suddenly stopped eating

[CasqueAbove]

What do you mean by large lamp? The only lights recommended are the T5HO fixtures. 2in1 bulbs that are heat and UVB are far too strong for use without a solarmeter to check your levels. It may not mean raising it up but it will mean dropping the closest point he can get to and pulling the shelf out. Unfortunately your cage is not something we typically use indoors. So while the information is not directly at hand it does not mean I can not get it for you.

With yesterday being Mother's Day people were busy. Hopefully @Gingero will be able to test it today to get a distance for you.

I am going to agree with @Beman here. MV 2 in 1 are great, like a high powered car. If you don't really know what you are doing some one can get hurt.
The issues I see with MV and screen is that it does not allow a proper choice, it is too much for a 2x2 area. They are great when you have a large enough surface area that half can be lit where the other side is not. This allows for a very natural set up. It also requires a large set up. like 36 x 30 surface area, and that would be the smallest, which is 75w. Most screen cages are using 65w or under for heat.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

That would be great, thanks.

 

[Beman]

That would be great, thanks.

I have reached out to someone else. I will let you know when I hear from him.

 

[Gingero]

Verdict is in. I’m getting 3.0 at 11” with a brand new 6% T5 arcadia on a PRO T5 reflector hood.

 

[Gingero]

Okay maybe like 11.5”

 

[Beman]

@Chloe Chameleon Do you know what type of fixture you ordered? Do you by chance have the link for this. The reflector will make a difference as well in readings.

I asked Bill Strand and this is the info I got from him. This is based on a 6% bulb in an Arcadia Pro T5. Would be pretty close to your 5.0.

Here are the 6% numbers without screen barrier

Top of cage next to bulb = UVI 28

UVI 6 = 7.5"

UVI 3 = 12"

UVI 1 = 26"

So, if you are adhering to what I recommend I would raise the bulb 7.5" above the cage and have the basking branch 6" down. The chameleon's back will be well into the UVI 3 range.

If you can raise the fixture that would be best. Otherwise you will have to drop his closest branch down 12 inches below the top where the fixture is sitting. You want him to be in a 3 UVI level.

 

[Beman]

@Chloe Chameleon

I have updated numbers for you. Bill Strand tested for you with the 5.0 bulb! So these will be closer to yours. Your aiming for a UVI 3 so you want basking to be about 10.5 inches below the fixture.

(if you do not know who Bill is. He owns Dragon Strand Caging systems www.dragonstrand.com, He is the host of the Chameleon Breeder Podcast www.chameleonbreeder.com, and he has the Chameleon Academy website for education about chameleons https://chameleonacademy.com/
These last two websites are a wonderful resource to learn more about caring for your guy.

You can do this either by lifting the fixture up off the cage 4-5 inches and having basking about 6 inches below the top of the cage. This ensures that if he climbs up on the top he is not getting blasted by UVB because directly under the bulb it is putting out a UVI level of 32.7. This is ideally the best way to ensue that he does not get overexposed. If he does not climb on the top under his lights then you should be able to get away with just dropping the basking level to 10.5 inches below the top of the cage. He even took pictures for you as well.

Bulb = Reptisun 5.0 T5 HO 24W, 22"

Fixture = Arcada ProT5

No screen filter


UVI 6 = 6"

UVI 3 = 10.5"

UVI 1 = 21"

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Thank you so much to both of you. We (and Edgar) really appreciate it.

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much to both of you. We (and Edgar) really appreciate it.

So use the info in my last post that is with the 5.0 bulb.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

So use the info in my last post that is with the 5.0 bulb.

Yep, we've raised the bulb up 5" above the enclosure, and left the basking shelf where it was as he likes that perch. There's a vine laying on it, so when he's up there on the vine he's about 5 " from the top of the enclosure, and if he's just on the shelf he's about 7 " away. He doesn't crawl along the roof of the enclosure that I've seen. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Update -He's still not eating - may have had a few wax worms 4 days ago (didn't see him eat so they could have escaped) . We know he ate a superworm on 4/28 and maybe 2-3 roaches (unless they escaped). Yesterday, despite all-day access to crickets, roaches, superworms and wax worms he showed no interest. However, later in the day I cut up a snap pea into 6 pieces in the afternoon and he ate 5 of them. Today he's shown no interest in crickets so far, we'll try other things in a bit. His fecal analysis came back as being normal. He now weighs 187 g down from 200 (he went off food around April 17th.) One sig. development: On the advice of this forum we got rid of his water fountain and changed the settings on his mister so that they run for longer. The first couple of days I watched to see how long it would run and noticed that he never moved towards the water. Yesterday I set up a "little dripper" (I'd tried it before but found it hard to work with) to run in addition to the mister. He immed. moved down to where water was pooling on the floor of the cage, laid his head down and drank wiithout even sticking out his tongue (ignoring the drops coming off the leaves in his cage). Then he came down at least 3 more times and drank from the puddle using his tongue. He must have been very dehydrated. Keep in mind though, that he was drinking from a water fountain (and maybe the mister) until about 1 week ago and still not eating. Now we've got the dripper running down the leaves and into a very small dish. I have also noticed a little less activity. If we stand at the door he comes down to be let out, but not as eagerly/quickly as before. Attached is a pic of the revised enclosure. A question was raised about his gender based on his behavior (seems to be looking for something, lots of time on the floor of his enclosure). We're pretty sure he's male due to spurs on feet and crest size but would be great to have that confirmed. Sorry for the long post - we are at a loss at this point.

 

[Beman]

Update -He's still not eating - may have had a few wax worms 4 days ago (didn't see him eat so they could have escaped) . We know he ate a superworm on 4/28 and maybe 2-3 roaches (unless they escaped). Yesterday, despite all-day access to crickets, roaches, superworms and wax worms he showed no interest. However, later in the day I cut up a snap pea into 6 pieces in the afternoon and he ate 5 of them. Today he's shown no interest in crickets so far, we'll try other things in a bit. His fecal analysis came back as being normal. He now weighs 187 g down from 200 (he went off food around April 17th.) One sig. development: On the advice of this forum we got rid of his water fountain and changed the settings on his mister so that they run for longer. The first couple of days I watched to see how long it would run and noticed that he never moved towards the water. Yesterday I set up a "little dripper" (I'd tried it before but found it hard to work with) to run in addition to the mister. He immed. moved down to where water was pooling on the floor of the cage, laid his head down and drank wiithout even sticking out his tongue (ignoring the drops coming off the leaves in his cage). Then he came down at least 3 more times and drank from the puddle using his tongue. He must have been very dehydrated. Keep in mind though, that he was drinking from a water fountain (and maybe the mister) until about 1 week ago and still not eating. Now we've got the dripper running down the leaves and into a very small dish. I have also noticed a little less activity. If we stand at the door he comes down to be let out, but not as eagerly/quickly as before. Attached is a pic of the revised enclosure. A question was raised about his gender based on his behavior (seems to be looking for something, lots of time on the floor of his enclosure). We're pretty sure he's male due to spurs on feet and crest size but would be great to have that confirmed. Sorry for the long post - we are at a loss at this point.

He is most certainly male.

Do you have a red bulb in the double dome fixture?

Keep your dripper running. Just make sure your dumping and cleaning the bowl at the bottom every day. Sounds like your boy got used to the prior method of drinking.

So they will go off food. And actually most males are only fed a few feeders every other day to every 3 days. Since the fecal came back negative we can rule out a parasite issue which is fantastic.

Can we review your supplements again? You stopped doing calcium with D3 everyday correct? So this would be one possibility. Lack of appetite from D3 toxicity.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

He is most certainly male.

Do you have a red bulb in the double dome fixture?

Keep your dripper running. Just make sure your dumping and cleaning the bowl at the bottom every day. Sounds like your boy got used to the prior method of drinking.

So they will go off food. And actually most males are only fed a few feeders every other day to every 3 days. Since the fecal came back negative we can rule out a parasite issue which is fantastic.

Can we review your supplements again? You stopped doing calcium with D3 everyday correct? So this would be one possibility. Lack of appetite from D3 toxicity.
[/QUOT
When we first got him, at about about 4 mos. old, we gave him just calcium every day. Then we were told every other day was fine. When that ran out we were told Retivite was better (because of the D3) - he was then given that every other day, to every 2 days. Following the advice on this thread we switched to Rapashy but later discovered it was "calcium plus" and had Vitamin D as well. Since he wasn't eating he really didn't have any of that - maybe once with a couple wax worms. Now we have Rep-Cal calcium with no phosphorus and no D3, but haven't been able to give it to him since he's not eating.

We have been "gut loading" the crickets he eats since we've had him, with Nature Zone "total bites." As mentioned, prior to mid April this guy ate 9-10 crickets a day.

Re: lamp, there are two bulbs: a 100w red infrared and a 100w ceramic infrared. We don't let the basking area get over 90, the thermometer is in the lower left of the cage and if it gets around 80 we turn off the heat lamps. The enclosure can heat up in the afternoon as it's by a window (little direct sun in the enclosure though). Temp is 74.8 right now with both lamps on at 12:38pm and he is basking up high.

Thanks for confirming gender. He was sold to us as a male panther chameleon - we didn't even know he was a veiled for about a month!

We also have a humidifier going about 6 feet from the enclosure as it's so dry here. Started this last week and run either at night or during the day (not both).

Thanks - so helpful to have this resource!

 

[Beman]

@Chloe Chameleon
When we first got him, at about about 4 mos. old, we gave him just calcium every day. Then we were told every other day was fine. When that ran out we were told Retivite was better (because of the D3) - he was then given that every other day, to every 2 days. Following the advice on this thread we switched to Rapashy but later discovered it was "calcium plus" and had Vitamin D as well. Since he wasn't eating he really didn't have any of that - maybe once with a couple wax worms. Now we have Rep-Cal calcium with no phosphorus and no D3, but haven't been able to give it to him since he's not eating.

So then with what you were giving prior to him going off feeders.. He could have a built up D3... this would effect appetite. This will take time for his body to lower the levels because D3 stores in the fat and body.

We have been "gut loading" the crickets he eats since we've had him, with Nature Zone "total bites." As mentioned, prior to mid April this guy ate 9-10 crickets a day.

So the gut load should be changed it is not providing much at all for nutritional value. But this would not cause him to go off feeders. You can get repashy bug burger if you want an all in one gutload for your feeders. or fresh veg. See image below.

Re: lamp, there are two bulbs: a 100w red infrared and a 100w ceramic infrared. We don't let the basking area get over 90, the thermometer is in the lower left of the cage and if it gets around 80 we turn off the heat lamps. The enclosure can heat up in the afternoon as it's by a window (little direct sun in the enclosure though). Temp is 74.8 right now with both lamps on at 12:38pm and he is basking up high.

Red bulb must go. Replace with a standard white incandescent bulb. This could be causing issues for him as far as feeding. Red lights are not good for chams. They can irritate their eyes. They are not a natural light for them to have.
Continue to monitor temps. Your set up is different but I worry about 200 watts in total being used.

Thanks for confirming gender. He was sold to us as a male panther chameleon - we didn't even know he was a veiled for about a month! LOL

We also have a humidifier going about 6 feet from the enclosure as it's so dry here. Started this last week and run either at night or during the day (not both). Yep this is fine make sure humidity levels are not going over 50% in the room though during the day at night you can have levels as high as 100%.

Thanks - so helpful to have this resource!

 

[AmandaS]

And I just want to add that you want your basking to be high enough that they can digest their food. 74 is not high enough, the highest part of his back/casque should reach around 82 degrees. This may be another reason he quit food. Im not sure about it. @Beman is wonderful with advice.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

And I just want to add that you want your basking to be high enough that they can digest their food. 74 is not high enough, the highest part of his back/casque should reach around 82 degrees. This may be another reason he quit food. Im not sure about it. @Beman is wonderful with advice.

That 74 degrees was the coolest part of his cage when I assessed things this morning. I've been assuming the basking shelf is about 10 degrees higher. However, just now I assessed again, as this is the time of day when things warm up in his room. The coolest corner was 81 degrees, and his basking shelf was at 99 degrees! He is up there though. I've been turning off the lamps when it gets over 80 at the coolest part, thinking that was putting that shelf at about 90, but it looks like it could have been a greater degree difference all this time. When he had a smaller cage we had just the red heat lamp, when we went to this large one we were told to use the two bulbs...were you worried because you (Berman) thought it might be getting too hot for him?

So much to learn. He was very eager to get out and roam (climb) this morning, now just basking (heat lamps are off!) Think i'm going to get another thermometer so we can better track what's happening in there.

And I just want to add that you want your basking to be high enough that they can digest their food. 74 is not high enough, the highest part of his back/casque should reach around 82 degrees. This may be another reason he quit food. Im not sure about it. @Beman is wonderful with advice.

 

[AmandaS]

Oh, yes, 99 is very hot! There is no need for a red light at all. The chameleons eyes are sensitive to this. I personally have 3 thermometer/hydrometer combos in each of my enclosures.

 

[Beman]

That 74 degrees was the coolest part of his cage when I assessed things this morning. I've been assuming the basking shelf is about 10 degrees higher. However, just now I assessed again, as this is the time of day when things warm up in his room. The coolest corner was 81 degrees, and his basking shelf was at 99 degrees! He is up there though. I've been turning off the lamps when it gets over 80 at the coolest part, thinking that was putting that shelf at about 90, but it looks like it could have been a greater degree difference all this time. When he had a smaller cage we had just the red heat lamp, when we went to this large one we were told to use the two bulbs...were you worried because you (Berman) thought it might be getting too hot for him?

So much to learn. He was very eager to get out and roam (climb) this morning, now just basking (heat lamps are off!) Think i'm going to get another thermometer so we can better track what's happening in there.

So yes, I was worried about the heat. I run 1 100 watt bulb on a dimming thermostat to get an 87 degree basking area. Even with this higher wattage bulb my thermostat does not use all of the wattage to get to the temp I have set. So with 2 100 watt bulbs I figured your temps at basking were far too hot... Just get rid of the red bulb... Personally I do not use the ceramic heat bulbs... Kind of counter intuitive for them since heat is light and the ceramic do not produce light... one 100 watt bulb should provide plenty of heat. Him being too hot may be why his is trying to get out.

I would get a wired thermostat with a probe. Tie the probe in at basking with zip ties so you can always monitor that area.

 

[Chloe Chameleon]

Ok. So he's still not eating. We introduced hornworms to him 2 days ago - no interest (nor roaches, wax worms, crickets, superworms). He just tried to mate with my arm I think - second time this has happened. He wanted out of the cage, rapidly crawled on my forearm and immediately began rubbing himself back and forth (no hemipens or whatever came out). Would have continued if I hadn't started moving. From a quick search on this forum I saw only one post from 2016 - is this pretty unusual behavior? Also, if all this behavior change is due to mating behavior, how long does it last? I can't believe he can go much longer without food.

 

[Beman]

Ok. So he's still not eating. We introduced hornworms to him 2 days ago - no interest (nor roaches, wax worms, crickets, superworms). He just tried to mate with my arm I think - second time this has happened. He wanted out of the cage, rapidly crawled on my forearm and immediately began rubbing himself back and forth (no hemipens or whatever came out). Would have continued if I hadn't started moving. From a quick search on this forum I saw only one post from 2016 - is this pretty unusual behavior? Also, if all this behavior change is due to mating behavior, how long does it last? I can't believe he can go much longer without food.

LOL yeah so that can happen with the boys...

You would be surprised how long they will hold out on food.... My male went almost 2 weeks without hesitation when I moved him to dubia.

Will he hand feed for you? Or if you hold a cup up for him?