Very Lathargic Panther

[Brad Ramsey]

I have merged your threads.
Not sure how much more advice can be offered ... Lynda (kinyonga) has been extremely helpful and given you as much advice as anyone probably can.
Good luck with her.
I strongly suggest having x-rays done and not really sure why the animal is on Baytril.

-Brad

 

[KShook]

Yess She has been EXTREMELY Helpful! I already got her info together for the boss to read...Not sure why she's on baytril either??? The vet/boss thinks she may have a neurological issue..which I dont beileve that...but even so...baytril kills any bacteria that she may have..and so far she hasnt improved..or declined..other than being a little more dehydrated..I'm going to pick up some pedilite today..and mix it with half water..how long should I give her this for??

I have merged your threads.
Not sure how much more advice can be offered ... Lynda (kinyonga) has been extremely helpful and given you as much advice as anyone probably can.
Good luck with her.
I strongly suggest having x-rays done and not really sure why the animal is on Baytril.

-Brad

 

[KShook]

Thank You SallyB!! I'll take a look over it!

I`m so sorry the cham is no better. I found the following article whilst researching recently to learn more about my chams issues. I found this really interesting and perhaps it will help. Good luck.


http://wvc.omnibooksonline.com/data/papers/2005_V423.pdf

 

[Red Island]

LoveReps:
can give her some natural sunlight!! Okay now for the "Panther" Experts...does anyone know what she is?? I know my pics quality are kind of suckie...Cell Phone! Ahhh..But she has purple on her! She's verrry Pretty! Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks Everyone!

There may be some panther experts here, but I dont of any that are any good at telling what local a female is from. People have opinions on discerning male locales !

 

[KShook]

Okay soo when I go in next week with Jazzie what should I get done "first" Blood Work or X-Rays!?!?

 

[KShook]

Update.....

Okay so...I only have one more day of giving my girl her meds...and then she's done..But it hasnt seemed to help her at all!? So..I'm bringing her back in for a recheck on Friday..hopfully we can get some xrays done this time around to see whats going on? And maybe blood work after that??? or even the same day?? We'll see..But I'll get back to friday with what we did and the results!?

 

[KShook]

Okie Dokie...So0o I got her checked out again...Fortunatley it was a VERY busy day at work...so we didnt have time to do X-Rays but will do that some time this week. But we ave totally stopped th Baytril since...It did not help what so ever..and now we have her on Cal-Gluconate .03cc orally twice a week..So we'll see if this help's her at all. Then as soon as I get xrays done I'll post them up here for everyone to see! Wish us luck this time around!!

 

[KShook]

X-Rays!!!

Okie Dokie...So0o Today was X-Ray and Bloodwork day for my Jazzie Girl! Might I say she was a trooper through it all... Anyways here are the x-rays that were taken of her! As you can see she does in fact have "Eggs" so to speak, but thay are not fully developed, or ready to be layed yet...((DARN)) Would anyone have an estimation on how much longer it'll take for her to develop them?? And ready to lay them?? I know it's a a Roughh..estimate to make..Ehhh...As for the blood work..I'll get the results back tomorrow. But so far we still dont know why she's falling like she is...Err..Maybe we'll get some answers from the bloodwork tomorrow...and if that comes back normal..then it's sure to be Neuroligical Issues

 

[kinyonga]

The x-rays aren't clear enough for me to see...but if the "eggs" are oval then they are eggs and should have been laid about 30 days from when the female mated. If the "eggs" are round they are follicles and would have to ovulate and progress along for a couple of weeks (approx.) before they would be ready to lay. I think what I'm seeing is ovals...but you should be able to see more clearly.
I'm not a vet, so this is just coming from experience, what I've read and what I've been told.

I'm wondering if she could be eggbound?

When was she separated from the male?

 

[KShook]

Hey Kinyonga,

The eggs are not Oval..there more round from what I can see...But then the rest of it is a big Blur...I throught she maybe eggbound at first to..but they "The Dr's" said there in her Ovary Track..and have not moved down to be layed yet?! I dont really know to much about it..but thats what they said..but so far we dont show anything for her weakness, falling and all that sort..My husband basically said "The Eggs Are Killing Her" which...maybe true...I get the bloodwork results in today..I'll post them when I get home tonight..to see what you think..

The x-rays aren't clear enough for me to see...but if the "eggs" are oval then they are eggs and should have been laid about 30 days from when the female mated. If the "eggs" are round they are follicles and would have to ovulate and progress along for a couple of weeks (approx.) before they would be ready to lay. I think what I'm seeing is ovals...but you should be able to see more clearly.
I'm not a vet, so this is just coming from experience, what I've read and what I've been told.

I'm wondering if she could be eggbound?

When was she separated from the male?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Unfortunately your friend didnt take your advice. The female Jazzi suffers because of his stubborness to take action. I applaud your efforts its very difficult to take on a cham with health issues. Good luck with her. If it is found to be neurological i would love to be kept updated on your vets findings. I was never eble to pinpoint my males problem. We also did a necropsy after he was euthanized and his body was sent to Tx A&M for study. They couldnt give me a definative diagnosis of the prob. Only that it wasnt due to a fall or fracture.

 

[kinyonga]

Concerning the eggproduction...the follicles should ovulate and then grow into eggs. Sometimes the follicles get "stuck" in their development ant don't ovulate....this is called "follicular stasis". If the follicles stay in stasis then they will eventually cause problems. The second thing that can happen is dystocia or eggbinding. In this case the follicles have ovulated and the eggs have formed but for some reason they cannot be/are not laid....and this too causes problems. I'm not a vet and have no way to know if they are moving along as they should be or if they are stuck either as follicles or as eggs. I can only tell you that in either case you will see a declining health in the chameleon eventually...often too late to do anything to save it.

Because of reproductive issues being so prevalent in some species of chameleon, there has been a study going on to see figure out why it happens and what can be done to stop it. The first "round" of this study has been completed (but no solution to the problem was found) and I hope someone will carry on with the next "round".

Wish I could tell you more than that...your best bet may be to spay her.

 

[KShook]

Texas: I appreciate your comments!!! And yes it's been quite a journey with her! She's such a cute little girl, everyone at the office wants to "Steal" her from me! lol..But I'm going to try everything I can to keep her well and find out exactley whats going on with her! ~*HopefullY*~ anyways..I will most def. keep you updated as I bring her into the office...and see hear the different Ideas she has for me...I should have gotten the bloodwork results back today..But the Lab did the wrong profile! OOPS...SO I should get something back tomorrow..

Unfortunately your friend didnt take your advice. The female Jazzi suffers because of his stubborness to take action. I applaud your efforts its very difficult to take on a cham with health issues. Good luck with her. If it is found to be neurological i would love to be kept updated on your vets findings. I was never eble to pinpoint my males problem. We also did a necropsy after he was euthanized and his body was sent to Tx A&M for study. They couldnt give me a definative diagnosis of the prob. Only that it wasnt due to a fall or fracture.

 

[KShook]

Kinyonga: Thats what I'm afraid of... Poor girl..I guess the only way to see if the eggs are moving would be to take another x-ray in the next couple weeks to see...and go form there. Also..Whats the survival rate of chameleons going under and coming back?? It seems like everything I read it says they dont have a good chance..But I suppose that could be with anything..!? I'll have to talk to my Boss/Dr and see if getting her spayed is something that she would be able and willing to do on her?? The girls in the office wernt sure if she has done anything like it before...But I must add she's very good at waht she does..so who knows!

Concerning the eggproduction...the follicles should ovulate and then grow into eggs. Sometimes the follicles get "stuck" in their development ant don't ovulate....this is called "follicular stasis". If the follicles stay in stasis then they will eventually cause problems. The second thing that can happen is dystocia or eggbinding. In this case the follicles have ovulated and the eggs have formed but for some reason they cannot be/are not laid....and this too causes problems. I'm not a vet and have no way to know if they are moving along as they should be or if they are stuck either as follicles or as eggs. I can only tell you that in either case you will see a declining health in the chameleon eventually...often too late to do anything to save it.

Because of reproductive issues being so prevalent in some species of chameleon, there has been a study going on to see figure out why it happens and what can be done to stop it. The first "round" of this study has been completed (but no solution to the problem was found) and I hope someone will carry on with the next "round".

Wish I could tell you more than that...your best bet may be to spay her.

 

[kinyonga]

In over 20 years of keeping chameleons I have had quite a few put under and I don't recall any one of them dying as a direct result of being put under. I've never had to have one spayed...but I have heard of quite a few successes lately with that.

 

[KShook]

Yeah, Thats awesome! I always love reading articles or threads with success with any Surgery on Chams...! Anyways The Lab screwed up on my blood work for her! UGGGGH They were supposed to run her Calcium Levels..and another test..but they didnt do either..They just ran her white and red blood cell counts..were still waiting for the normals on that so we can compair it with hers...but even so..it's not what we wanted...Im thinking..in maybe a week or two? I'll go another set of x-rays done to see if there any movements with the eggs..that are or are not formed? If you have any other ideas let me know!

In over 20 years of keeping chameleons I have had quite a few put under and I don't recall any one of them dying as a direct result of being put under. I've never had to have one spayed...but I have heard of quite a few successes lately with that.

 

[KShook]

What do these colors Indicate?!

Okay..So0o I just got another female cham..and I very briefly put her in with Jazzie so I could setup her cage...Jazzie started getting all huffy and puffy and showed of thses colors...Are these Gravid Colors or Just her being mad?? For some reason I can never tell the difference?? Let me know what you think?!

 

[kinyonga]

Could be non-receptive/gravid coloration or it could be upset.

 

[chamelisa]

Kayla brought Jazzie to me. I'm hoping to get any testing information from the previous vet sent over to my vet this next week. It would be helpful.

I have two enclosures set up just for her. She has a small screened cage where she can be in the sunlight for several hours during the day. Then at night she has a rehab tank that she sleeps in.

She climbs around in circles and cannot walk in a straight light. She is alert to bugs and will show a lot of interest in eating them but so far she hasn't tried to catch anything on her own. So I'm feeding her by placing the feeders inside her mouth such as silkworms, crickets and roaches. She is a good eater when the food is in there.

Her weight is very good and she looks well hydrated. So Kayla, you've done really well with that I must say.

I haven't read every single post but I read a good part of this thread. I am wondering if there are any issues with the supplement product that was used by the previous owner. Any insight on this from you Kayla would be really helpful. Not that it would cure her, but it could help in the future.

We'll take good care of her and keep you updated. If there is nothing that can be done to improve her condition, then I will create a modified set up and keep my eyes open for a caring individual with the passion to take care of a handicapped chameleon to adopt her.

Wish us luck.

 

[chamelisa]

When I spent some time holding her today, it looked like she may be carrying eggs. And her color darkened emphasizing brighter peach spots. So this could get complicated. For tonight, she is in an egg laying bin and I've pre-dug holes in the soil.