Very sad case of MBD..
- Thread starter Sancho
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Chameleoco
New Member
This I am aware of
warpdrive
Avid Member
by not dusting at every feeding.
the reason we dust so often on fast growing chams is that they require extra calcium for all that growth.
once your cham slows down it's growth (say around 12 months), you can dust only once in a while as a boost to the diet you are giving your feeders.
so if your feeding 4 days a week, the you should dust about once or twice a week as a boost.
slower growing chams such as quads don't require all this dusting even when babys. it's just the fast growing chams that require all this dusting on a daily bassis when they are young.
Harry
jadeaudio
New Member
Thanks for the help guys. I didn't even know what they sold me. When I 1st bought the stuff I was at a Reptile expo show and I bought a Senegel. I have no idea how old it is. They sold me the calcium with D3 and Herpetive multivitamin. Then I got addicted and bought a 1 year old blue bar ambiole male and a 7 month old Nosy Be Female. The 1 year old is pretty big, but the female seems small, but very fat to me. I am still experimenting on gutloading. They seem like they eat it, but not very fast. If I leave something in there for more than a day it starts to stink, so I throw it away. Crickets are more damn work than the chams! At least my family owns a restaurant so it doesn't cost me anything, but it's still a pain. The 3 chameleons I have go through 20 crickets a day, so I try to buy in volume to get a good deal on them, but like 5 a day die when I buy 500 at a time, so I am still trying to figure out how to keep them alive. When I 1st bought my Senegal I bought 100 crickets and never had any die and they ate just carrots and apples and got big quick. I kept them in a glass tank with a screen top and never even put water in there and they never died ever. Now I bought 500 of them I bought a big rubbermaid container and put one of those water sponge things in there and they die quite a bit everyday. Sorry to get off point, but I was dusting everyday. I am gonna cut back now after reading all this. I just have to figure out how to keep these crickets better or I am not saving any money buying in large quantity.
warpdrive
Avid Member
hi Jade,
first off 20 crickets a day for adults seem like quite alot.
in fact I would say that you are over feeding them.
8 to 12 crickets sounds far more normal for growing young chams, but yours are adults (besides the nosey be)...
I woul feed the adults every other day about 5 or 6 crickets unless they are small, then maybe a little more.
buying in bulk means you'll need a huge container.
500 crickets will need quite a large trash can sized container with plenty of freash food and room to have space to grow.
get rid of the water, a wet gutload is all you need.
you'l still have some deaths, but it will be less if you order less in my humble opinion.
if your gona buy in bulk, use two or three containers to keep them in.
I'm old school, I feel glass 10 gal fish tanks with screen tops are best for 200 crickets or less....easyer to keep clean too.
get some cacium dust that has no D3 in it, like rep-cal calcium.
use this once a week for your adults, and the D3 and multi vitamins once a month or so.
for your growing nosey be, use calcium each day and the rest once or twice a month and you'll be fine.
I hope you are also feeding other insects besides crickets.
silkies and butterworms are great feeders.
butterworms don't even need dusting as they are high in calcium.
if you feed silkworms, you could skip dusting as well to prevent over dusting.
just some thoughts, and I hope I've helped.
Harry
first off 20 crickets a day for adults seem like quite alot.
in fact I would say that you are over feeding them.
8 to 12 crickets sounds far more normal for growing young chams, but yours are adults (besides the nosey be)...
I woul feed the adults every other day about 5 or 6 crickets unless they are small, then maybe a little more.
buying in bulk means you'll need a huge container.
500 crickets will need quite a large trash can sized container with plenty of freash food and room to have space to grow.
get rid of the water, a wet gutload is all you need.
you'l still have some deaths, but it will be less if you order less in my humble opinion.
if your gona buy in bulk, use two or three containers to keep them in.
I'm old school, I feel glass 10 gal fish tanks with screen tops are best for 200 crickets or less....easyer to keep clean too.
get some cacium dust that has no D3 in it, like rep-cal calcium.
use this once a week for your adults, and the D3 and multi vitamins once a month or so.
for your growing nosey be, use calcium each day and the rest once or twice a month and you'll be fine.
I hope you are also feeding other insects besides crickets.
silkies and butterworms are great feeders.
butterworms don't even need dusting as they are high in calcium.
if you feed silkworms, you could skip dusting as well to prevent over dusting.
just some thoughts, and I hope I've helped.
Harry
jadeaudio
New Member
Yes, thank you. Very helpful. I feed a total of 20 crickets a day to all 3 Chameleons. Not each one. And they are not the full size ones. I prefer the ones that are the biggest you an get before they start to chirp as they are noisy as hell, so even gutloaded they are not that big. I will try to get different things to feed them. I was just kind of getting the whole cricket thing down before I got other things. I was going to do the worm thing, but I'm just trying to figure out what to do as it'll be no problem feeding the adult male as he likes to be hand fed, but the nosy won't cup feed and likes to find her prey climbing high up on the screen. Someone was saying something about some sort of worm you have to cut the head off first?
warpdrive
Avid Member
ah sounds better on the whole cricket amount...
as for worms...butterworms can be kepted in the fridge and dont need to be fed.
they last about two months without doing anything to them.
silkies and superworms are a little more demanding of your time, but no, you dont need to take the heads off.
Harry
warpdrive said..."the reason we dust so often on fast growing chams is that they require extra calcium for all that growth"...I dust insects like crickets that have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. at most feedings because it helps to correct the ca/phos. balance in the insects. As the chameleon becomes adult the chameleon is fed less often so it gets less calcium..but the insects are still balanced this way.
According to what I've read, montane species need less calcium because they are from cooler areas and thus their metabolism is slower and they grow slower....but then that implies that they need less food too.
Bones not only have to grow and be made strong, they have to be maintained once they are finished growing. If you give the chameleon less calcium than it needs, it will take calcium from its bones. IMHO, if you are not even balancing the poor ratio that the insects have you are depleting the chameleon's calcium.
According to what I've read, montane species need less calcium because they are from cooler areas and thus their metabolism is slower and they grow slower....but then that implies that they need less food too.
Bones not only have to grow and be made strong, they have to be maintained once they are finished growing. If you give the chameleon less calcium than it needs, it will take calcium from its bones. IMHO, if you are not even balancing the poor ratio that the insects have you are depleting the chameleon's calcium.
JuAPple
New Member
after reading these comments i am more aware :] i am glad i read ahead on dusting before getting my cham. i have not yet fed him with dusted crickets becauase i choose to dust 1 a month. anyhow i was thinking won't the dusted cricket get the rep-cal dust washed off with the water sprayed inside the cage? my chameleon really does not eatr crickets right away it takes a while for him to eat he will ignore the crickets and then eat about1 hour after i have put them in. so in this hour won't the cricket's dusted with cal. wash off?
writh
New Member
Metric
New Member
Mist the cage before putting the crickets in.
Chameleoco
New Member
Hypercalcemia presents itself in much the same was as to little calcium, and can be caused by a number of things including hyperparathyroidism (excess production of the parathyroid hormone pth which regulates calcium reabsorption from bones,causing them to bow and fracture) and hypervitaminosis D(excess vitamin D causes the cacium to be stored in the kidneys and impares the normal function of the calcium being extreted). The hypercalcemia can occur as a secondry illness through a tumor (not the only cause of secondary hypercalcemia) or through excessive dietry calcium taking blood serum calcium levels too high
writh
New Member
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