Viatimin A Deficiencies in Cameleons

Don't chameleons get most of their Vitamin A from the eyes of insects? Don't smaller insects have more Vitamin A because their eyes are larger compared to their bodies?

I think a large part of the problem is that instead of using insects that have been raised on healthy natural foods in the wild and live outside in natural light, we are feeding insects that are raised on the cheapest garbage that will grow the insects the fastest, plus they never see natural sunlight.

The same is true for many farmed animals. The chicken you buy today is not the chicken you ate 50 years ago. The chicken in the grocery store is a whopping 5 weeks old. If a human had the same growth rate as the modern broiler chicken (patented with only two hatcheries suppling all commercial meat chicks--Cornish X--in the world), it would be the equivalent of a 700 pound three-month old baby. They grow so fast, their organs and skeleton are not able to support their body mass. They are so deviant from normal, you can't even grow them to maturity because they die of heart or kidney failure. Chicken in a grocery store is not nutrient dense at all. It is garbage.

The same holds true for farmed fish. While (wild caught) salmon is high in really beneficial fatty acids, farmed salmon is not.

You can taste the difference between the eggs of free range chicken that hunt their own food and factory-farmed eggs. The factory produced eggs have very little nutrition.

Ditto for farmed beef. A grass fed animal is just superior nutritionally. Finished beef is fed mainly corn. Things like expired candy goes into commercial feed. How can that produce nutrient dense meat? Garbage in equals garbage out.

I would be very careful about feeding raw meat to feeder insects. Botulism is a real risk.
 
Salmonella is also a risk feeding raw meat. For my turtles/tortoises I always cook the chicken first.

Exactly right jajeanpierre...the vitamin A is in the eyes of many of the insects.
Regarding feeding /gutloading...my husband always said I fed the insects better than I fed him!

As I keep saying...i have for many years not given any of my insectivore reptiles including the chameleons prEformed vitamin A and fed/gutloaded the insects with only good greens and veggies and I have never had the eye issues purported to be from vitamin A deficiencies or the gland issues in the jacksons, or MBD some people are thinking hypovitaminosis A is a part of. (I did have one male panther chameleon with a swollen eye due to cancer and I did have one Melleri with a swollen eye that I took on that came to me with a respiratory infection and abcesses near the nose.) the only chameleon I had that I was told had a vitamin A deficiency funnily enough was the only one I had been giving prEformed vitamin A to back in the old days...before the wheel was invented. :)

I would still like to see the papers proving that the chameleon's (especially the veileds) lack the enzymes to convert the carotenoids and also see papers indicating that they have the enzymes to digest meat like beef, etc.
 
Salmonella is also a risk feeding raw meat. For my turtles/tortoises I always cook the chicken first.

Exactly right jajeanpierre...the vitamin A is in the eyes of many of the insects.
Regarding feeding /gutloading...my husband always said I fed the insects better than I fed him!

As I keep saying...i have for many years not given any of my insectivore reptiles including the chameleons prEformed vitamin A and fed/gutloaded the insects with only good greens and veggies and I have never had the eye issues purported to be from vitamin A deficiencies or the gland issues in the jacksons, or MBD some people are thinking hypovitaminosis A is a part of. (I did have one male panther chameleon with a swollen eye due to cancer and I did have one Melleri with a swollen eye that I took on that came to me with a respiratory infection and abcesses near the nose.) the only chameleon I had that I was told had a vitamin A deficiency funnily enough was the only one I had been giving prEformed vitamin A to back in the old days...before the wheel was invented. :)

I would still like to see the papers proving that the chameleon's (especially the veileds) lack the enzymes to convert the carotenoids and also see papers indicating that they have the enzymes to digest meat like beef, etc.

So this is the last research paper I'm going to post on here. Vitamin A deficiencies occur in all chameleons including Veileds and they all lack an enzyme that aids in the converting of Beta Carotine to active vitamin A that can be utilized in their bodies. Some species of chams may have more of these enzymes then others. Reshesrches don't know all the facts yet and there havent been many studies on this subject to determine all the facts and if there are I can't find them. I think the horse has been beaten to death Lol! :)

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1923.full
 

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I would still like to see the papers proving that the chameleon's (especially the veileds) lack the enzymes to convert the carotenoids and also see papers indicating that they have the enzymes to digest meat like beef, etc.


I'm not gonna write a paper on it but if you want a picture of the crap a Parson drops after eating a fuzzy mouse I can do that for you in about..... checking... another 2-3 days I'd guess at. :eek:
 
OldChamKeeper...I would be interested in knowing whether the mouse was completely digested. How many days did it take the mouse to pass through?
 
Back in the 90s I would feed a pinky to adult male Panthers now and then-pretty messy ordeal, blood and bodily fluids squirting out- but I never noticed the feces being markedly different. I quit doing it because of the mess more than anything else. I couldn't tell you hoe it took to pass the pinky because there was no real difference in the stool.
 
Salmonella is also a risk feeding raw meat. For my turtles/tortoises I always cook the chicken first.

Exactly right jajeanpierre...the vitamin A is in the eyes of many of the insects.
Regarding feeding /gutloading...my husband always said I fed the insects better than I fed him!

As I keep saying...i have for many years not given any of my insectivore reptiles including the chameleons prEformed vitamin A and fed/gutloaded the insects with only good greens and veggies and I have never had the eye issues purported to be from vitamin A deficiencies or the gland issues in the jacksons, or MBD some people are thinking hypovitaminosis A is a part of. (I did have one male panther chameleon with a swollen eye due to cancer and I did have one Melleri with a swollen eye that I took on that came to me with a respiratory infection and abcesses near the nose.) the only chameleon I had that I was told had a vitamin A deficiency funnily enough was the only one I had been giving prEformed vitamin A to back in the old days...before the wheel was invented. :)

I would still like to see the papers proving that the chameleon's (especially the veileds) lack the enzymes to convert the carotenoids and also see papers indicating that they have the enzymes to digest meat like beef, etc.

The other issue with temporal gland infections that isn't often mentioned is the filthy, bacteria-ridden insects we feed, a.k.a crickets. Raised the way they are is nothing like the way insects are in the wild.
 
I would be interested to have a look at the nutritional data for Mantis being used as feeder insects. As compared to other feeder insects Mantis feed on other invertebrates and if small enough vertebrates too. Theoretically they could be a good source and way to feed Preformed Vitamin A to medium and large chameleons. Other than feeding House Gecko's and Anoles, Mantis are being captive bred by many chameleon keepers now as a food source for chameleons that may actually be a good source for Preformed Vitamin A. I am actually talking to UC Davis Agriculture nutrition Professor Ed DePeters about a study about this matter. It has not been the highest priority on my list and has been progressing slowly.

Feeding field collected insects is good as there is a huge variety of insects that is going to be collected and fed to your chameleons. This is going to help prevent hunger strikes from happening to your chameleons. Plus they are feeding on the freshest wild pollen and variety of plants (a wider range of plants a variety that you won't find in pre made supplements) in the field that have a good nutrient content. However there is always the risk with field collected insects that you may feed your chameleon an insect that contains pesticides, a harmful dangerous insects or insects that are vector for parasites.

Something to consider.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
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Atlas took a monster sized crap this morning. So it took him 3 days to pass it. Looks like any other Parson stool. No mouse face staring back at me in a silent scream from inside the crap.

I've put over 120 grams on him since his arrival in Late April. I'd say his nutritional needs are being met. Won't be long before he hunts the wife's cat.
 
Atlas took a monster sized crap this morning. So it took him 3 days to pass it. Looks like any other Parson stool. No mouse face staring back at me in a silent scream from inside the crap.

I've put over 120 grams on him since his arrival in Late April. I'd say his nutritional needs are being met. Won't be long before he hunts the wife's cat.

Thanks for sharing about his poo!!! It's nice to know everything came out alright ;) Can you post a pic of Atlas? I bet he's gorgeous!
 
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