Vitamin injections for 1.5-2 month old chameleon?

[Flickmycham]

Just wondering if anyone has heard of a chameleon 1.5-2 months old getting a vitamin boost via injection at the vet. The vet has not seen the chameleon yet but said via email that she would give Vitamin A/D/E injection as a boost, just preventative I guess. She is a recommended vet on the list posted here (Cedar Creek Vet in Williamston, MI). I’m worried that an injection could cause further problems, I need advice on whether this is a good idea or not, or personal experiences with getting injections for a chameleon this young?? He is going to the vet for a little spot on his belly, possibly fungal or bacterial, and said that she will give antibiotic injections as well if she thinks it looks bacterial. Personally I think it looks more fungal and hope it will just be a topical cream for treatment. Came here to ask anyone for personal experiences or ideas/thoughts/opinions of giving injections to a chameleon this young..

 

[Beman]

I would never allow my vet to give vitamin injections unless there was an actual need for it. Meaning the cham was showing signs of improper supplementation and needed the shot. Vitamin A is fat soluble and is stored in the body. To give an injection like this as a "boost" IMO is iffy especially with such a young baby. You can simply make sure your supplements are correct and get a cham back on track without the shot.

Also shots into chams is not that easy... When they are smaller this is even more difficult.

 

[Flickmycham]

I would never allow my vet to give vitamin injections unless there was an actual need for it. Meaning the cham was showing signs of improper supplementation and needed the shot. Vitamin A is fat soluble and is stored in the body. To give an injection like this as a "boost" IMO is iffy especially with such a young baby. You can simply make sure your supplements are correct and get a cham back on track without the shot.

Also shots into chams is not that easy... When they are smaller this is even more difficult.

This is where my mind is at too on this.. thank you for your post. He may be a tad dehydrated but doesn’t seem malnourished, is dehydration reason to boost them with vitamins?

 

[Flickmycham]

I would never allow my vet to give vitamin injections unless there was an actual need for it. Meaning the cham was showing signs of improper supplementation and needed the shot. Vitamin A is fat soluble and is stored in the body. To give an injection like this as a "boost" IMO is iffy especially with such a young baby. You can simply make sure your supplements are correct and get a cham back on track without the shot.

Also shots into chams is not that easy... When they are smaller this is even more difficult.

Also what are some signs of malnourishment in such a young chameleon?

 

[Chameleoking]

I would have to agree with Beman on this subject. Just be careful and make sure you tell the vet what's on your mind. Then maybe you both can come up with a better solution like a topical ointment. Hey but I'm far from a vet myself

 

[ERKleRose]

I'd personally find a different vet. Doing anything with a chameleon that small is dangerous, especially with fat-soluble vitamins and "booster shots" without seeing the cham in person or doing bloodwork (which is too risky in a baby that young)! What have you been gutloading and dusting with, along with what's your UVB?

Do you have any pics of your cham (then we can see if there are any visible signs of malnourishment)?

 

[Flickmycham]

I'd personally find a different vet. Doing anything with a chameleon that small is dangerous, especially with fat-soluble vitamins and "booster shots" without seeing the cham in person or doing bloodwork (which is too risky in a baby that young)! What have you been gutloading and dusting with, along with what's your UVB?

Do you have any pics of your cham (then we can see if there are any visible signs of malnourishment)?

I agree.. problem is the only other vet that is knowledgeable about chameleons has a month waiting list for a visit. There are two animal hospitals around that say they “can see” chameleons but they don’t see too many and I won’t be able to go in with the little guy (covid policy), I have to wait in the car which would make me nervous he’ll be in there alone. Lights are T8 5.0 UVB light 12” long. Im not dusting anymore since I was told by a few breeders I was dusting too much for a baby that young but am starting in a couple weeks when he is 3 months old. I know there is differing viewpoints on this but I haven’t been worried about it since his favorite food, bean beetles are high in calcium and other vitamins like vitamin A. He also eats the larger fruit fly can’t remember the name of them but they are the larger ones. And black soldier fly larvae which are also said to be high in calcium. I take him outside every couple days so he’s getting his Vit D. Only thing is not sure if he is drinking quite enough though I do see him drink at least once everyday and his urate is always white, just so small. Pictures attached. Thanks for your reply!

 

[Flickmycham]

I would have to agree with Beman on this subject. Just be careful and make sure you tell the vet what's on your mind. Then maybe you both can come up with a better solution like a topical ointment. Hey but I'm far from a vet myself

Thank you for your reply! I would think a topical would be with less risks.. Hopefully the vet is open to differing opinions

 

[Beman]

This is where my mind is at too on this.. thank you for your post. He may be a tad dehydrated but doesn’t seem malnourished, is dehydration reason to boost them with vitamins?

No it is not.

Also what are some signs of malnourishment in such a young chameleon?

thin... you can see the ribs and bones easily.

I agree.. problem is the only other vet that is knowledgeable about chameleons has a month waiting list for a visit. There are two animal hospitals around that say they “can see” chameleons but they don’t see too many and I won’t be able to go in with the little guy (covid policy), I have to wait in the car which would make me nervous he’ll be in there alone. Lights are T8 5.0 UVB light 12” long. Im not dusting anymore since I was told by a few breeders I was dusting too much for a baby that young but am starting in a couple weeks when he is 3 months old. I know there is differing viewpoints on this but I haven’t been worried about it since his favorite food, bean beetles are high in calcium and other vitamins like vitamin A. He also eats the larger fruit fly can’t remember the name of them but they are the larger ones. And black soldier fly larvae which are also said to be high in calcium. I take him outside every couple days so he’s getting his Vit D. Only thing is not sure if he is drinking quite enough though I do see him drink at least once everyday and his urate is always white, just so small. Pictures attached. Thanks for your reply!

So with a T8 and a 5.0 bulb the branch literally would need to be 3 inches below the fixture for the cham to get the 3 uvi level it needs. Upgrade it to a 10.0 bulb in a T8 and it would need to have a branch 5-6 inches below the fixture. This is extremely important. Too far away and baby is not getting UVB. Taking baby outside may cause way too much stress at this age depending on how you are doing it.

You also have to dust your feeders. Calcium without D3 at all feedings to balance the calcium to phos ratio of the feeder. Otherwise your going to cause an imbalance in the chameleon. Then you need to use a multivitamin with D3 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th.

The only feeder that you could get away with not dusting are bsfl. BUT even then I recommend dusting everything.

 

[ERKleRose]

@Flickmycham What's your gutload?

 

[Lindasjackson]

He’s just too tiny to be giving injections to period! I agree with beman and Erkle. Some vitamin es are stored in body fat and if you give injections it could lead to toxic levels and it could strain the kidneys and liver of the animal. You can take him to a vet for advice but I wouldn’t let them start giving injections at this point. Let them do a fecal exam, that’s a good thing for them to do.

 

[dinomom]

Just wondering if anyone has heard of a chameleon 1.5-2 months old getting a vitamin boost via injection at the vet. The vet has not seen the chameleon yet but said via email that she would give Vitamin A/D/E injection as a boost, just preventative I guess. She is a recommended vet on the list posted here (Cedar Creek Vet in Williamston, MI). I’m worried that an injection could cause further problems, I need advice on whether this is a good idea or not, or personal experiences with getting injections for a chameleon this young?? He is going to the vet for a little spot on his belly, possibly fungal or bacterial, and said that she will give antibiotic injections as well if she thinks it looks bacterial. Personally I think it looks more fungal and hope it will just be a topical cream for treatment. Came here to ask anyone for personal experiences or ideas/thoughts/opinions of giving injections to a chameleon this young..

Not sure which vet you spoke to- Wayne Beasley is the owner and he is very good with herptiles, has helped me often with frogs. Maybe you spoke to his daughter who is a recent grad?

There should not be an injection unless there are indications for it so that should not be sent in an email without first seeing the animal.

 

[Flickmycham]

@Flickmycham What's your gutload?

They all have their own food in their respective cultures. I just made my own fruit fly medium with one of the recipes on here, was thinking of routinely putting an old blueberry or some kind of fruit for them to eat in my little guys house so they could gutload that way too, have done it before but not always. The BSF larvae came with their own nutritional flakes (Phoenix worms brand) but was also thinking of feeding them some extra scraps too? And for the bean beetles I'm pretty sure they only eat beans/legumes which they have plenty.

 

[Flickmycham]

No it is not.

thin... you can see the ribs and bones easily.

So with a T8 and a 5.0 bulb the branch literally would need to be 3 inches below the fixture for the cham to get the 3 uvi level it needs. Upgrade it to a 10.0 bulb in a T8 and it would need to have a branch 5-6 inches below the fixture. This is extremely important. Too far away and baby is not getting UVB. Taking baby outside may cause way too much stress at this age depending on how you are doing it.

You also have to dust your feeders. Calcium without D3 at all feedings to balance the calcium to phos ratio of the feeder. Otherwise your going to cause an imbalance in the chameleon. Then you need to use a multivitamin with D3 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th.

The only feeder that you could get away with not dusting are bsfl. BUT even then I recommend dusting everything.

Okay thank you for your reply!!

 

[Flickmycham]

Not sure which vet you spoke to- Wayne Beasley is the owner and he is very good with herptiles, has helped me often with frogs. Maybe you spoke to his daughter who is a recent grad?

There should not be an injection unless there are indications for it so that should not be sent in an email without first seeing the animal.

What a small world! She signed the email Dr. Emily. She was very kind to answer my email. Here’s a quote from the email: “I'd have to look at him "in person" to tell you for sure, but assuming it is pus we would put Flick on injectable antibiotics (we'd show you how to do it) and most likely I'd boost his Vitamin A/D/E levels with an injection and send you home with a calcium supplement (I've found nearly all Chameleons benefit from a Vitamin D boost and often it helps them heal faster).” And then she goes on to remind me she’d have to see him in person to be sure. I’m just worried about the injections and causing stress or another infection, as then there would be an open wound

 

[Flickmycham]

Not sure which vet you spoke to- Wayne Beasley is the owner and he is very good with herptiles, has helped me often with frogs. Maybe you spoke to his daughter who is a recent grad?

There should not be an injection unless there are indications for it so that should not be sent in an email without first seeing the animal.

What would indicate giving an animal so young an injectable antibiotic? I’m not sure if you seen the pictures but the infection, if it is one, seems pretty small and could maybe be treated less aggressively?

 

[ERKleRose]

They all have their own food in their respective cultures. I just made my own fruit fly medium with one of the recipes on here, was thinking of routinely putting an old blueberry or some kind of fruit for them to eat in my little guys house so they could gutload that way too, have done it before but not always. The BSF larvae came with their own nutritional flakes (Phoenix worms brand) but was also thinking of feeding them some extra scraps too? And for the bean beetles I'm pretty sure they only eat beans/legumes which they have plenty.

The BSFL come on bran, which isn't good. They'll need to be gutloaded according to this chart (I'd also get crickets, and roaches- if you can find any that small-, of the appropriate size. You need something that holds a variety gutload like the chart below):

What a small world! She signed the email Dr. Emily. She was very kind to answer my email. Here’s a quote from the email: “I'd have to look at him "in person" to tell you for sure, but assuming it is pus we would put Flick on injectable antibiotics (we'd show you how to do it) and most likely I'd boost his Vitamin A/D/E levels with an injection and send you home with a calcium supplement (I've found nearly all Chameleons benefit from a Vitamin D boost and often it helps them heal faster).” And then she goes on to remind me she’d have to see him in person to be sure. I’m just worried about the injections and causing stress or another infection, as then there would be an open wound

Giving extra D3 and A is very dangerous to do just because

 

[Flickmycham]

The BSFL come on bran, which isn't good. They'll need to be gutloaded according to this chart (I'd also get crickets, and roaches- if you can find any that small-, of the appropriate size. You need something that holds a variety gutload like the chart below):
View attachment 309174

Giving extra D3 and A is very dangerous to do just because

He wont eat crickets I found out the hard way.. I had ordered 500 pinhead crickets (the smallest order they had available from Josh’s frogs) a little while after I got him and he ate about 5 of them. Wouldn’t give them the time of day I want to get him roaches soon but they seem too big for him right now even the small size. I think he might like the roaches because he likes the crunch of the bean beetles. I will start gutloading the BSF larvae. Thank you

 

[Flickmycham]

Just wanted to update and tell you guys the vet immediately said that he is too young for an injection, she didn’t realize how small he is from the pictures. Because of the location of the spot being directly in the middle of his belly, the vet thinks it might be some left over egg yolk from hatching, kind of like their belly button, I guess it can take 6-8 weeks for it to close up and flake off. Made a follow up appointment for 2 weeks and if it’s not gone we are maybe going to try some topical antibacterial/antifungal ointment, forgot the name. Even the topical she was worried about since it could be easy to apply too much and fill his system up with too big of a dose. Hoping it goes away and is just left over yolk from hatching

 

[dinomom]

What would indicate giving an animal so young an injectable antibiotic? I’m not sure if you seen the pictures but the infection, if it is one, seems pretty small and could maybe be treated less aggressively?

Most likely could be topical based on how it looks to me. Be prepared to discuss your supplement protocol and share concerns about oversupplementing those fat soluble vitamins with an injection. And let them know you would like to treat conservatively for now and most vets will work with you. Good luck with little one!

Just wanted to update and tell you guys the vet immediately said that he is too young for an injection, she didn’t realize how small he is from the pictures. Because of the location of the spot being directly in the middle of his belly, the vet thinks it might be some left over egg yolk from hatching, kind of like their belly button, I guess it can take 6-8 weeks for it to close up and flake off. Made a follow up appointment for 2 weeks and if it’s not gone we are maybe going to try some topical antibacterial/antifungal ointment, forgot the name. Even the topical she was worried about since it could be easy to apply too much and fill his system up with too big of a dose. Hoping it goes away and is just left over yolk from hatching

Awesome!

I used to have this with hatchling tortoises. and it does go away.