WARNING: Controversial Subject, Be nice!

[JlaPinska]

Like i said this is a controversial subject. My veiled cham will be 3 years old in a few months. No matter how many roaches, crickets, or worms i feed him, he stays on the thinner side. He has fat pudge around his ankles but he still looks too slim to me. Sooooooo..

I was thinking about buying a pinky and see if he will go for it. I mean he pretty much will scarf down anything that wiggles. I figured adding a 5th type of live food to his diet would help and a mouse has even more vitamins and stuff than a bug. If he can house down a 3 1/2 inch long hornworm, a pinky should go down easy.

Has anyone tried this? Are there any cons to feeding him pinkies? I mean i'm going to powder it with vitamins and everything like i would do with bugs.

Please do not be rude. If it's not a good idea, just say so and tell me why, but don't be mean please. Thank you ahead of time to anyone who replies!!!

 

[reptiles4evar]

Pinky mice, though high in fat, can contain milk from the mother rat (not good for reptiles) and are mostly made of cartiledge, so not much in the way of calcium, and they lack fur and developed organs, so not much in the way of vitamins. I'd stick to bugs as they are (mostly, atleast) insectivores.

 

[JlaPinska]

thanks for your quick reply. i guess its not a good idea after all. i just don't know what to do. people keep telling me he looks to be a normal weight but i'm not buying it. I feed him every other day and i give him more food than he can eat in one sitting. I give him a varied diet, i also give him greens because he loves them. and he also munches on his pothos sometimes. But when he stretches out, i can see his ribs. when he's just relaxing he looks fine but when he's up and roaming the cage he looks too thin to me. And i read somewhere that they keep growing until they hit like 2 years? And he's about to hit 3 and still sheds every month like he is still growing.

 

[AZChamFan]

Have you had a stool sample checked for parasites? If he cannot gain weight regardless of how much he eats I would get that done if he were mine. Also are you gut loading the insects well? That makes a huge difference in how nutritious they are.

 

[reptiles4evar]

Sometimes when they roam they do look skinny. But honestly reptiles in captivity are often overweight and I bet he's fine, though a picture would help. Feed him as much as he wants and as long as he is consistently eating he knows how much he needs.

 

[Mawtyplant]

totally agree with parasite checkup and gutloading shoud help!

so.. for the pinky you can try.. this is not the best and i think it can cause prolaps so be caution! (urban legend?) you have a pitcure of him, maybe he not that worst

 

[reptiles4evar]

Oh yeah a parasite checkup never hurts.

 

[JlaPinska]

Have you had a stool sample checked for parasites? If he cannot gain weight regardless of how much he eats I would get that done if he were mine. Also are you gut loading the insects well? That makes a huge difference in how nutritious they are.

yes i gut load everything and i powder everything i even powder his veggies.

 

[JlaPinska]

it's gonna be hard for me to get him to a vet. the closest one i can take him to is about 2 hours from where i live. how much should he weigh at this age? (we'll just say he's 3) i have a small scale that weighs in grams will that suffice to weigh him?

 

[reptiles4evar]

You don't have to take him to a vet just a stool sample for them to check. And yes that scale will work as long as it's functional.

 

[AZChamFan]

yes i gut load everything and i powder everything i even powder his veggies.

Truly not trying to give you a hard time but when you just say you gut load everything that could mean you are giving them nothing but potato every time. Also powdering everything could be bad just as easily as it could be good. It depends on what supplements you are using and how much/often with each. The mention of the fat pudge around his ankles is a little concerning. It does seem that something might be slightly off. Do you have proper UVB lighting and a proper basking spot?

 

[nightanole]

Back when the earth was cooling and i had to save up for a hearty veiled so i wouldnt get stuck with those cheap parsons that just died, i fed it exclusively 1 feeding of pinkies per week along with an unlimited amount of veg the rest of the week. The male made it 4.5 years, and died of kidney failure.

Chams and dragons can have some animal meat, but would keep it to 1-2 pinkies a month as a treat.

 

[Graves923]

Are you able to weigh to compare to and average adult weight?

You can feed pinkies but, as mentioned above, they arent very nutritious and pose the risk of impaction since they can be hard to digest. I definitely recommend testing for parasites just to eliminate that possibility.

 

[PJK]

Are you able to weigh to compare to and average adult weight?

You can feed pinkies but, as mentioned above, they arent very nutritious and pose the risk of impaction since they can be hard to digest. I definitely recommend testing for parasites just to eliminate that possibility.

Agreed, they also are very rich, so they are taxing on the organs to metabolize.

 

[JlaPinska]

Truly not trying to give you a hard time but when you just say you gut load everything that could mean you are giving them nothing but potato every time. Also powdering everything could be bad just as easily as it could be good. It depends on what supplements you are using and how much/often with each. The mention of the fat pudge around his ankles is a little concerning. It does seem that something might be slightly off. Do you have proper UVB lighting and a proper basking spot?

by gut loading i mean all of his feeders eat chow and a mix of vegetables. i have all the correct lighting. I have a Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB T5 HO that i replace every 6months and his basking lamp is the Zoo Med Reptile Basking Spot Lamp 75 Watts. I also use a temperature gun to make sure his basking spot is the right temp and there is a hygrometer and a temperature gage about halfway down the cage. He's not a new pet. I also powder the food that i feed to his feeders. I use Rep-Cal Herptivite and Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit d3 and i switch them every other week so he gets them both twice a month, every friday. I use Fluker's calcium the rest of the time. Im a SAHM so i don't use a watering system i hand mist twice a day for at least 2 minutes at a time until everything is completely soaked- he also likes to sit and be misted and will drink water straight from the misting bottle, which is kinda cute when he does that lol. I was using a dripper but i had to move his cage and haven't remounted it yet. I use either water that has been directly filtered or water that has been distilled for a couple weeks. He has a 4ft tall pothos in his cage he used to eat it but doesn't do that anymore now that he is older and gets his greens all the time. (Romane Lettuce, spinach, red lettuce, and kale,, and once or twice a year i give him half a red grape) i don't know what else i could do except send a poo sample to the vet like everyone is telling me to do. I will weigh him when my husband gets home cause i have a feeling it's gonna take both of us to do it since he's so grabby! And when i mean fat pudge on his ankles i mean like a normal amount, his ankles look healthy is what i was trying to say. There is absolutely NO way he could have MBD. He's my favorite pet, and i take SUPER good care of him. The only thing i don't have that i want is one of the jungle dawns for his plant.

 

[JlaPinska]

Are you able to weigh to compare to and average adult weight?

You can feed pinkies but, as mentioned above, they arent very nutritious and pose the risk of impaction since they can be hard to digest. I definitely recommend testing for parasites just to eliminate that possibility.

yes i am going to weigh him tonight i just need to know what the average adult weight is because i've got no clue. i just know that every cham i see looks fatter than him lol

 

[JlaPinska]

Here are some very recent pictures they are like 1 week old. One of him all fired up and the other he is eating a hornworm. do you see what i mean?

 

[JlaPinska]

Back when the earth was cooling and i had to save up for a hearty veiled so i wouldnt get stuck with those cheap parsons that just died, i fed it exclusively 1 feeding of pinkies per week along with an unlimited amount of veg the rest of the week. The male made it 4.5 years, and died of kidney failure.

Chams and dragons can have some animal meat, but would keep it to 1-2 pinkies a month as a treat.

I know dragons can have them my friend has like 7 of those dang things. I was thinking.. other lizards eat them in the wild and baby snakes eat pinkies and its beneficial to them so how could it not be for my cham? (ofcourse i am not saying it IS good for him, i don't know anything about it, which is why i posted here lol)

 

[nightanole]

I know dragons can have them my friend has like 7 of those dang things. I was thinking.. other lizards eat them in the wild and baby snakes eat pinkies and its beneficial to them so how could it not be for my cham? (ofcourse i am not saying it IS good for him, i don't know anything about it, which is why i posted here lol)

Certain animals can only handle certain kinds of protein. Snakes can be fed excusivly mice/rate/hamsters.

Chams and beared/water/frill dragons are not built for massive amounts of mammal protein. I know from almost 30 years experience that if you feed those guys a primarily mammal prey diet, you will only get the mins from life spans. About 4 years out of a cham, 5-6 from a beardy/water, and maybe 8 years out of a frilly. You switch over to just bugs, or 90% bugs, and then you get 6+ cham, 10+ out of the beardy/water (my record was 14 years), and 15 year old frillies.

Hell if you want to give a lab rat cancer guaranteed, just feed it mostly animal proteins. Thats just the way they work.

 

[AZChamFan]

The additional information was extremely helpful. Once again - didn't mean to judge you in any way. It's just impossible to know these things unless we ask or the information is given in advance. You are indeed taking excellent care of him!!! To be honest he looks perfectly healthy to me!!! The only thing I might add is that it is not generally recommended to add extra supplements to the gut load, meaning the same supplements which you powder the feeders with, as long as you are using nutritious high quality gut loads. There are some members here selling dry gut loads of high quality and Repashy brand is also well respected. Stay away from Fluker's!