We Need To Do Better, We Can

[Jennyontheblock]

Recently joined a facebook group which Bill Strand has several care sheets available in the files. There one on respiratory infections along with a few others. I feel there is crucial info I learned after having my cham for 2 years...you want higher humidity at night when temps are low as it aids in hydration. Lower humidity during day and turn off the basking light while misting to reduce risk for respiratory problems. Also, bee pollen was suggested for daily consumption. I see so many near dead chameleons with help requests and it kills me every time. I've struggled with some issues myself and I spare no expense for my animals and thought I was following the guidelines exactly. I wish there were more thorough care sheets that outline EVERY detail for a healthy cham for every species. I feel this is the exporters, breeders & pet stores responsibility to provide these resources. With all the chameleons being bred, it's a shame I haven't found a single care sheet that completely explains how to care for my panther. I've had to join groups and forums after not getting proper instruction and a little misinformation from a well known and respected breeder. I asked 100 questions + and researched for months before my purchase yet still made mistakes. I feel the care sheets on this site could be more presice. I'd rather come to this site and see thriving healthy animals and people showing them off. ADMINS...PLEASE read.

 

[Decadancin]

 

[salty dog]

Before getting a cham people should RESEARCH thouroughly then get a proper setup then a cham and PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR CHAMS in their setup EVERYDAY and LISTEN TO ADVICE FROM VETERAN KEEPERS people should make the proper tweaks to keep their chams healthy thats relative to their setup, I find the biggest problem people impulse buy a cham then go to social media.....all surprised that their cham is dying, there is very many reasons a cham gets problems, I think those problems could be avoided by doing what I mentioned above

 

[Goose502]

All the care sheets in the world won’t stop these issues. Thousands of chameleon “impulse buys” happen every week, and out of those thousands, a couple individuals care enough to fix their husbandry when their chameleon starts to fail.

 

[Jennyontheblock]

Of course research is necessary...but there should be thorough and precise care sheets that describe husbandry in its entirety for those that are dedicated to doing it right and will monitor them daily for issues and seek vet immediately. It's a mixed bag what you find online. For instance, most say 12 hr photo period but neglect that the heatlamp should be off during misting for an hour before and after. I never knew I wanted lower humidity during the day and up to 100% at night when the temps were lower. Impulse buyers could offer better care if better resources were easier to find....and animals would benefit. I personally got bad advice from a veteran keeper, breeder after tons of research. I did precisely what I was told, spend hundreds on setup, and still had issues due to my husbandry. I'm just hoping the "veteran advice" become common knowledge and easier to find.

 

[Beman]

I was an impulse buyer and I hate being grouped into the category that is supposed to fail. I have spent over 1800 on an entirely new setup... from cage to lighting to fogger to proper supplements to literally everything that I was told to buy being replaced. I had not only the forbidden Petco crap advice but also more crap advice from my local reptile store... so $400 for total crap stuff that was pointless to buy. I started researching immediately. Found dragon strand and he referred me to light your reptiles who then referred me to this forum. This was all within the first week of getting Beman. I have been extremely appreciative to all of the experienced keepers who took the time to answer questions and help me. To all the members who were nice to me. But I agree the caresheets could be expanded more. Like the section on feeding amounts. It does not say how to cut them back to every other day. I was fortunate to find someone here who took the time to explain how this should be done and not to just stop feeding all together but to slowly curb him back to this. I have read multiple books and none explained this process. I think they could be written more with the newbie keeper in mind.

 

[Quinnbys]

Recently joined a facebook group which Bill Strand has several care sheets available in the files. There one on respiratory infections along with a few others. I feel there is crucial info I learned after having my cham for 2 years...you want higher humidity at night when temps are low as it aids in hydration. Lower humidity during day and turn off the basking light while misting to reduce risk for respiratory problems. Also, bee pollen was suggested for daily consumption. I see so many near dead chameleons with help requests and it kills me every time. I've struggled with some issues myself and I spare no expense for my animals and thought I was following the guidelines exactly. I wish there were more thorough care sheets that outline EVERY detail for a healthy cham for every species. I feel this is the exporters, breeders & pet stores responsibility to provide these resources. With all the chameleons being bred, it's a shame I haven't found a single care sheet that completely explains how to care for my panther. I've had to join groups and forums after not getting proper instruction and a little misinformation from a well known and respected breeder. I asked 100 questions + and researched for months before my purchase yet still made mistakes. I feel the care sheets on this site could be more presice. I'd rather come to this site and see thriving healthy animals and people showing them off. ADMINS...PLEASE read.

I'm curious about the resources you mentioned. I'd love to compare them to the other info I've been reading. Have any links?

 

[JoshD49]

I think you can make a care sheet as detailed as you want but the reality is that there is no concrete rules when you have different climates that people are keeping these animals in. Im not arguing by any means so please don't take it as such. My parameters in southern CA will not be the same as someone in the UK. The truth is that you shouldn't be looking in one place for this type of information. What works for one person doesn't always work for the next. The chameleon breeder podcasts are a great example of this. Bill is often suprises by guests and how they do things but that does not mean they are not successful. There are people who have endless money and can buy all the best stuff. Then there are budget keepers. Either case doesn't mean one loves their pet more then the other. I spend hours looking at every care sheet I can find or have been sent, I listen to the podcasts and YouTubers, I search the archives here to see how people overcame problems and most importantly I talk to the pros and friends like @Matt Vanilla Gorilla or the other countless people here.

The point is I believe we should read everything we can and sort through the BS ourselves to find the real stuff that works for us.

 

[Jennyontheblock]

All the care sheets in the world won’t stop these issues. Thousands of chameleon “impulse buys” happen every week, and out of those thousands, a couple individuals care enough to fix their husbandry when their chameleon starts to fail.

I'm sure this is largely true...but as breeders, keepers and animal advocates, why not make it available? Cannot place all the blame on ignorant people for wanting a beautiful cham when breeders, exporters, expert keepers haven't come together and created care sheets that are thorough enough to keep them healthy. We spend countless hours on forums searching for answers when it should or could be made common knowledge. Just my opinion, hoping to make a difference.

 

[absolutbill]

One thing to remember is that being a moderator, whether it be on this site, or on the FB sites that you mention, is a volunteer position. No one is getting paid to do this, they do it out of love for these beautiful animals and after they have worked their "real" jobs for the day. The suggestion to get information from a variety of sources is a good one, and one that I still practice after over a decade of chameleon-keeping.

As one example, you will not find 1 solid line of advice on how and with what to supplement your chameleons, it has to be a bit of trial and error and figuring out what works best with your particular animal, in your particular cage, with the amount of natural sunlight you are able to provide, in your particular location. Believe me, all of these moderators are doing their best, and when you stop to think that this is a hobby for them as well you will be amazed at how much information has been collected.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

We are talking about living creatures! Many books have been written about them! Songs have been sang about them! They are very complex creatures! Even the best keeper amongst us still have more to learn about them than what we already know! You can take all the care sheets out there and intelligibly combine them in to one and freely distribute them and chameleon keepers will still be human and chameleons will still die! If everyone on the forums were to adhere to the care sheets provided here on the forums it would already make a massive difference! But people often read without making sence nor following the guidelines of what they read! We are human!!!

 

[Blmelton]

I would just like to take the time to thank all of the people on this forum who took their own personal time to answer my questions, read my husbandry info., and help me out. Like many others, I did A LOT of research before getting my first cham, but it was research that was evidently done in the wrong places. I knew about a chameleon's basic needs. I knew how important UVB is. I knew I should be gut loading. I knew I should be supplementing. It wasn't until I joined THIS forum that I realized I was doing all of this, but I was doing it incorrectly. Thank goodness I stumbled upon this forum early (within a week) of actually owning my chameleon! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Everyone that has commented on my many questions (no matter how dumb they may have sounded). You have all made my chameleon's life better and no doubt longer & healthier! I am sure I will continue to have questions as I know I still have a lot to learn! We are doing great so far!

 

[Jennyontheblock]

I'm curious about the resources you mentioned. I'd love to compare them to the other info I've been reading. Have any links?

Starting with our own caresheets...do you feel they are the best they can be?

I'm curious about the resources you mentioned. I'd love to compare them to the other info I've been reading. Have any links?

I dont have links handy...but Im sure they are probably the same you have found when google searching.

 

[Jennyontheblock]

One thing to remember is that being a moderator, whether it be on this site, or on the FB sites that you mention, is a volunteer position. No one is getting paid to do this, they do it out of love for these beautiful animals and after they have worked their "real" jobs for the day. The suggestion to get information from a variety of sources is a good one, and one that I still practice after over a decade of chameleon-keeping.

As one example, you will not find 1 solid line of advice on how and with what to supplement your chameleons, it has to be a bit of trial and error and figuring out what works best with your particular animal, in your particular cage, with the amount of natural sunlight you are able to provide, in your particular location. Believe me, all of these moderators are doing their best, and when you stop to think that this is a hobby for them as well you will be amazed at how much information has been collected.

My post should not offend any moderator or member of this group. Im thankful I found this forum as its been very helpful. I have personally recommended folks come here for answers on other forums. I simply have a hard time seeing pics of near death chams - and feel that improved caresheets could prevent some of these cases. If breeders, exporters, stores want to bring them to the hobby...there is some responsibility to provide the knowledge for them to thrive. I look at myself as either part of the solution or part of the problem. Id rather be part of the solution.

 

[Jennyontheblock]

I'm curious about the resources you mentioned. I'd love to compare them to the other info I've been reading. Have any links?

chameleon enthusiasts on facebook

 

[Jennyontheblock]

I think you can make a care sheet as detailed as you want but the reality is that there is no concrete rules when you have different climates that people are keeping these animals in. Im not arguing by any means so please don't take it as such. My parameters in southern CA will not be the same as someone in the UK. The truth is that you shouldn't be looking in one place for this type of information. What works for one person doesn't always work for the next. The chameleon breeder podcasts are a great example of this. Bill is often suprises by guests and how they do things but that does not mean they are not successful. There are people who have endless money and can buy all the best stuff. Then there are budget keepers. Either case doesn't mean one loves their pet more then the other. I spend hours looking at every care sheet I can find or have been sent, I listen to the podcasts and YouTubers, I search the archives here to see how people overcame problems and most importantly I talk to the pros and friends like @Matt Vanilla Gorilla or the other countless people here.

The point is I believe we should read everything we can and sort through the BS ourselves to find the real stuff that works for us.

Couldnt agree more! However, I firmly believe we need better care sheets to prevent the most common problems. Sure everyone lives in different climates, but the environment for our animals is the same.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I think you can make a care sheet as detailed as you want but the reality is that there is no concrete rules when you have different climates that people are keeping these animals in. Im not arguing by any means so please don't take it as such. My parameters in southern CA will not be the same as someone in the UK. The truth is that you shouldn't be looking in one place for this type of information. What works for one person doesn't always work for the next. The chameleon breeder podcasts are a great example of this. Bill is often suprises by guests and how they do things but that does not mean they are not successful. There are people who have endless money and can buy all the best stuff. Then there are budget keepers. Either case doesn't mean one loves their pet more then the other. I spend hours looking at every care sheet I can find or have been sent, I listen to the podcasts and YouTubers, I search the archives here to see how people overcame problems and most importantly I talk to the pros and friends like @Matt Vanilla Gorilla or the other countless people here.

The point is I believe we should read everything we can and sort through the BS ourselves to find the real stuff that works for us.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I'm curious about the resources you mentioned. I'd love to compare them to the other info I've been reading. Have any links?

Checkout ChameleonCentral on FB under the Files section.

Ours:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/

 

[Goose502]

The info is available, honestly. Yes it takes some research to find it all, but it’s all readily available. I feel people have forgotten how to look for answers, they think it should all be in one place. It takes effort to learn, the millennial attitude towards getting something without working for it drives me nuts. Could we improve our care sheets, sure. But as JoshD49 said, there are so many variables to proper husbandry. The forum itself is here to answer those questions. Ask in specifics, and you will receive appropriate answers. The knowledge is there, books have been written, articles published. You just need to look around.

 

[Quinnbys]

Starting with our own caresheets...do you feel they are the best they can be?

I don't have links handy...but Im sure they are probably the same you have found when google searching.

I do think the carehsheets here that I have seen were better than the ones I got at the Store (and surprisingly) the Vet. However I do think there is a TON of opaque information that seems to require a ton of research (to your point). In particular around UVB exposure values targets.

I am a relatively new keeper, so I honestly am very interested in the caresheets you have mentioned and was just hoping for a link to improve my own knowledge. I did some googling and I am already a member of Bill Strand's Chameleon Breeder facebook group and I haven't seen the docs you mentioned yet, though I did reach his "First Chameleon E Book" of his. I am curious about the mention of the bee pollen and more detail about the night-time misting. Was that info perhaps from his Episode on Naturalistic Chameleon Hydration?

I don't disagree about the required heavy lifting to find the best information, but I was also hoping you could help provide some of the tools to improve, if you think they're out there?

Thanks!

Checkout ChameleonCentral on FB under the Files section.

Ours:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/

Thanks I'll check that FB group out!