Wet smelly poop...

[Lunatuck]

Chameleon Info:


Your Chameleon - Panther, Male, 2mo 3 weeks. In my care for 3 weeks.
Handling - Almost daily I put him in his tree for a couple of hours. Also clean cage at the same time. He's been running onto my hand when I put his feeding cup in there.
Feeding - Staple food is crickets(gutloaded with Flukers cal, carrots, Romaine). He eats about 15 medium a day. I also gave him silkworms and superworms.
Supplements - Cal daily, D3 2x a month. Vitamins once a week. (I think) Schedule from breeder. (Rep Cal, Rep Cal w/D3, Reptivite no D3, Minerall no D3)
Watering - Dripper running 24/7, mister running 4x a day for 1m, hand spraying whenever cage looks dry.
Fecal Description - This morning's poop was very wet. Not solid at all and smelled a bit. The past few days it was more solid. Last week it was also wet. I thought it was the silkworms, so I stopped feeding them for a bit. Yesterday he ate superworms. I don't know if that can cause wet stools. Never did a fecal float.
History - MY concern is a parasite or something, but it seems like his stool gets loose when I give him either silkworms or superworms. I'm going to only give him crickets for the next day and test it out.


Cage Info:


Cage Type - Screen cage 24x18x36
Lighting - Basking bulb and linear UVB
Temperature - Basking temp is around 90F, lowest temp in cage is 72F. Nighttime temp is around 72. Tested with thermometer and temp gun.
Humidity - Humidity stays between 50 and 60%.
Plants - Yes. Pothos, Rabbits foot fern, Croton, Schefflera
Placement - Cage is on a chest. 30" high. No drafts.
Location - Northeast PA.


Current Problem - Cosmic's poop was very runny this morning and may have had a smell. I've been watching his poop because it was runny last week after I fed him silkworms. I cut back on the silkworms and it got more firm. Last night, I was feeding him superworms as a treat. He ate 3 larger ones. Yesterdays poop (before eating the superworms)was mostly normal if not a little bit wet. Todays was very runny. Would superworms cause this? Maybe the additional hydration? He is still eating and growing well. Yesterday, after I put him back in his enclosure, he did turn pure black. I thought it was in respnse to me putting a superworm in his cage. He seems scared of them sometimes.

If it's not cleared up by tomorrow, I figure I should try to get a fecal float from my vet. Sound about right?

 

[Syreptyon]

Never had this before, but your gutload could use some serious improvement. Fluker's products are useless for chameleons, just nutrient-less filler. Romaine is a very poor gutload choice, too. And carrots aren't honestly much better; fine in combination with healthier options, but definitely not by itself. Your cham is probably nutritionally deficient and, if they're like humans, the low quality food might lead to nasty results.

You should use a combination of these ingredients instead:

"Best - These gutloading ingredients are best because they are highest in calcium, low in phosphorus, oxalates and goitrogens. They should be the primary components of your gutload: mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress and alfalfa.


Good - These gutloading ingredients are good because they are moderately high in calcium and other vitamins/minerals. They should be used in addition to those from the previous category: sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy and green beans."

Also multivitamin is better to use 2x a month like the Cal+D3

 

[Beman]

Hi there.

Gutload needs to be improved on. Either do a variety of the items from the graphic and mix up what you are using week over week or buy something like Repashy bug burger.

Vitamins should be given only 2 times a month as well. So you want to do calcium without d3 at every feeding except when you do calcium with d3 2 times a month and multivitamin 2 times a month. These two should alternate each week.

Make sure the cage is drying out completely in between mistings. You don't want anything growing from being consistently wet and causing a foot infection.

Temperature is way too hot for his age. You do not want the basking temp to be any hotter then 80-82 degrees. Once he is 9 months old you can kick it up to 85-90 degrees. Night time temp is due to house temp correct? You are not providing any additional heat source at night?


I am a firm believer in getting fecals done. Crickets can carry parasites. I know when I feed silks they cause a softer stool but not runny. Superworms should not do that though because they do have a higher chitin content then Silks or hornworms.

 

[Lunatuck]

I have given him cauliflower leaves as well, but I’m updating my grocery list. I was overestimating the effectiveness of the flukers.

Do you think the gutload could cause this?

The nighttime temp is due to house temp. No additional heat source. I will raise the basking lamp another inch.

Also looks like I could let it dry a bit more between mistings.

Breeders instructions say vitamins every 10days.

 

[Beman]

I have given him cauliflower leaves as well, but I’m updating my grocery list. I was overestimating the effectiveness of the flukers.

Do you think the gutload could cause this?

The nighttime temp is due to house temp. No additional heat source. I will raise the basking lamp another inch.

Also looks like I could let it dry a bit more between mistings.

Breeders instructions say vitamins every 10days.

Ok so the uvb light fixture is sitting directly on the screen top correct?

What wattage are you using for the heat bulb? You can simply use a lower wattage to get the correct temp. A 1 inch raise is not going to get the temp down far enough for him.

No, I do not think the gutload could cause this. It would just cause the feeders to be nutritionally inadequate.

 

[Lunatuck]

Ok so the uvb light fixture is sitting directly on the screen top correct?

What wattage are you using for the heat bulb? You can simply use a lower wattage to get the correct temp. A 1 inch raise is not going to get the temp down far enough for him.

No, I do not think the gutload could cause this. It would just cause the feeders to be nutritionally inadequate.

Yes. UVB directly on top.

Bulb is 70w. The dome is 7” above his basking spot. Ill still use the temp gun to figure out proper height.

Probably gonna call the vet and see if I can drop off a sample.

 

[Syreptyon]

I have given him cauliflower leaves as well, but I’m updating my grocery list. I was overestimating the effectiveness of the flukers.

Do you think the gutload could cause this?

The nighttime temp is due to house temp. No additional heat source. I will raise the basking lamp another inch.

Also looks like I could let it dry a bit more between mistings.

Breeders instructions say vitamins every 10days.

I actually disagree with your thoughts on misting and I think your chameleon needs more. 60 seconds is not long enough in a screen enclosure to adequately initiate the drinking response. Each misting session should be no less than 2 minutes. And the watery feces means that your chameleon is dehydrated because their kidneys aren't absorbing as much water as they need to be (equate it to diarrhea in humans - losing too much water and not retaining enough)

 

[Lunatuck]

I actually disagree with your thoughts on misting and I think your chameleon needs more. 60 seconds is not long enough in a screen enclosure to adequately initiate the drinking response. Each misting session should be no less than 2 minutes. And the watery feces means that your chameleon is dehydrated because their kidneys aren't absorbing as much water as they need to be (equate it to diarrhea in humans - losing too much water and not retaining enough)

I will be upgrading my mister (and cage) in the next couple of weeks, but it currently only allows a max of 1m mist time. I am usually around for the first and last mist of the day, so I manually run it 2x at those times.

I do see him drinking. The dripper drops on a branch, and he licks the bottom of the branch. It seems to be part of his morning routine.

His urites has been white.

 

[GeoCham]

I had a similar problem. Turned out to be parasites. You can check out the feedback I got. I think the thread was “wet poop sometimes “

I’d get a fecal done.

 

[jamest0o0]

Definitely get a fecal. Juicy worms like hornworms have been known to cause runs, but runny+smelly is often a sign of parasites if it's continuous. Coccidia comes to mind as the main culprit.

 

[Lunatuck]

Vet wants to see the chameleon before they’ll do a fecal. I can appreciate that, but was hoping to just drop it off and bring him in for the results. Worse then that, they cant see him for 2 weeks.

Gonna see how his next poop looks and decide whether to go out of town.

 

[jamest0o0]

Usually they'll want to do an exam, but any vet I ever knew was fine with doing the fecal. It makes sense to not unnecessarily stress the animal. Often people with little cham experience don't understand this.

 

[JoXie411]

How does your chameleon smell? I know this is weird but when my little guy had coccidia he smelled of fish. I often smell check now.

 

[Lunatuck]

How does your chameleon smell? I know this is weird but when my little guy had coccidia he smelled of fish. I often smell check now.

I didn't notice any smell from him. I will check later.

What I find odd is it's inconsistent. I'm wondering if it isn't associated with the supplements. I very well could be over dusting. And he's eating a ton!

Hopefully I'll be home to see him poop tonight. Thinking I'll schedule with the vet and wait the couple of weeks.