What’s the right decision here?

[Inky]

Hey all , I remember seeing a thread related to this sometime ago but just wanted some insight.

i walked into petco today to buy some horn worms they had a special on and every time I go in there I always check to see if they are carrying chameleons.

they had 3 precious little veileds and , two looked like males and one looked like a female but they all looked quite healthy! They had yellows and seems alert and active and the according to the clerk they had been brought in today. They dont look like they are even 2-3 months yet.

they are housing all 3 of these veileds in a little glass tank and im positive the husbandry is all the way shot out at petco.
So What I need insight on is
is it wrong if I bought them and cared for them?

I know I’m supporting the sorry cycle corporate pet stores have when it comes to chameleons but I just know I can give them a better life and I have the space available. It kills me knowing these chameleons will deteriorate in petco tanks and if they are sold the chameleon will (most of the time) be sold to an inexperienced keeper.

such a conflicted feeling.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Hey all , I remember seeing a thread related to this sometime ago but just wanted some insight.

i walked into petco today to buy some horn worms they had a special on and every time I go in there I always check to see if they are carrying chameleons.

they had 3 precious little veileds and , two looked like males and one looked like a female but they all looked quite healthy! They had yellows and seems alert and active and the according to the clerk they had been brought in today. They dont look like they are even 2-3 months yet.

they are housing all 3 of these veileds in a little glass tank and im positive the husbandry is all the way shot out at petco.
So What I need insight on is
is it wrong if I bought them and cared for them?

I know I’m supporting the sorry cycle corporate pet stores have when it comes to chameleons but I just know I can give them a better life and I have the space available. It kills me knowing these chameleons will deteriorate in petco tanks and if they are sold the chameleon will (most of the time) be sold to an inexperienced keeper.

such a conflicted feeling.

IMO I would buy them bc they are most likely going to die and petco will replace them and so on or someone will buy them and petco will replace with new ones if someone buys them most likely they will be a newb but when you are buying them you are giving them a chance. This is just my opinion and the other side has a great opinion and great reasons!

 

[Lindasjackson]

I know how you feel because I had the same reaction when I saw Eustis sitting in that small glass aquarium in petco with a plastic plant and that’s it. He was sitting in dirt at the bottom and I felt so sad and I knew he would die if I didn’t do anything. I think it’s a decision only you can make. We all know we can’t save every Cham we find at petco but we can save one or two or maybe three. I don’t know what to tell you except it’s your decision. Good luck and God bless you and give you wisdom.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

I know how you feel because I had the same reaction when I saw Eustis sitting in that small glass aquarium in petco with a plastic plant and that’s it. He was sitting in dirt at the bottom and I felt so sad and I knew he would die if I didn’t do anything. I think it’s a decision only you can make. We all know we can’t save every Cham we find at petco but we can save one or two or maybe three. I don’t know what to tell you except it’s your decision. Good luck and God bless you and give you wisdom.

Great words!

 

[Beman]

So here is the thing. Yes they will get more to replace the ones you buy. So yes the cycle repeats.

With the babies do you have the means to individually house them with all the correct stuff?

They would never be able to be bred to one another due to the high possibility of being related.

Big thing though. Do you have experience with Veileds? Most act like moody toddlers. Their personality is very different from a gentle Panther. Don't get me wrong I adore my boy and adore this species but it can be a shocker for those less familiar with their feisty personality and mood swings.

I bought two of mine from Petco within the first week they had gotten them in. Both were parasite free and very healthy. Key is getting them before they have had time to hurt them. I would still recommend a fecal though before introducing them to any area you have other chameleons in just to be safe.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

So here is the thing. Yes they will get more to replace the ones you buy. So yes the cycle repeats.

With the babies do you have the means to individually house them with all the correct stuff?

They would never be able to be bred to one another due to the high possibility of being related.

Big thing though. Do you have experience with Veileds? Most act like moody toddlers. Their personality is very different from a gentle Panther. Don't get me wrong I adore my boy and adore this species but it can be a shocker for those less familiar with their feisty personality and mood swings.

I bought two of mine from Petco within the first week they had gotten them in. Both were parasite free and very healthy. Key is getting them before they have had time to hurt them. I would still recommend a fecal though before introducing them to any area you have other chameleons in just to be safe.

Moody toddlers is a perfect way of describing them

 

[Inky]

So here is the thing. Yes they will get more to replace the ones you buy. So yes the cycle repeats.

With the babies do you have the means to individually house them with all the correct stuff?

They would never be able to be bred to one another due to the high possibility of being related.

Big thing though. Do you have experience with Veileds? Most act like moody toddlers. Their personality is very different from a gentle Panther. Don't get me wrong I adore my boy and adore this species but it can be a shocker for those less familiar with their feisty personality and mood swings.

I bought two of mine from Petco within the first week they had gotten them in. Both were parasite free and very healthy. Key is getting them before they have had time to hurt them. I would still recommend a fecal though before introducing them to any area you have other chameleons in just to be safe.

Before I owned panthers I started with the bighead chameleons !
I’ve owned two and both are females. They are actually both still alive I just rehomed them a while back because i wanted males but i ended up getting male panthers instead. As a matter of fact it was folks on this website who broke the news that the chams are ladies !!

i have two cages at the ready. I oughta post em so y’all can flame me into making them perfect . I intended to fill them with panthers but I’ve got 2 panthers already and 3rd one preordered. I figured I could show the veiled some love. And I wouldn’t want to ever breed them . I can’t afford too many breeding projects so I’m gonna allocate what I can to my future panther clutch



and if theirs anything in the way of me caring for these chams I know I can come right on this website and find a solution

 

[Beman]

Before I owned panthers I started with the bighead chameleons !
I’ve owned two and both are females. They are actually both still alive I just rehomed them a while back because i wanted males but i ended up getting male panthers instead. As a matter of fact it was folks on this website who broke the news that the chams are ladies !!

i have two cages at the ready. I oughta post em so y’all can flame me into making them perfect . I intended to fill them with panthers but I’ve got 2 panthers already and 3rd one preordered. I figured I could show the veiled some love. And I wouldn’t want to ever breed them . I can’t afford too many breeding projects so I’m gonna allocate what I can to my future panther clutch



and if theirs anything in the way of me caring for these chams I know I can come right on this website and find a solution

Well with Veileds... Seems as though it is a shot in the dark vs personality from Male to Female. Honestly some have sweet ladies and some are pure evil. lol Same with the males. Veileds should not see one another or any other cham. They are very reactive.

I think in the end it is your choice so do what is best for you and your family. If it is something you want to make the commitment to then great. But having that many chams is a lot. lol

 

[Inky]

Well with Veileds... Seems as though it is a shot in the dark vs personality from Male to Female. Honestly some have sweet ladies and some are pure evil. lol Same with the males. Veileds should not see one another or any other cham. They are very reactive.

I think in the end it is your choice so do what is best for you and your family. If it is something you want to make the commitment to then great. But having that many chams is a lot. lol

yeah, I wouldn't buy all 3, would just be two. I never mentioned that I probably should have.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Hey all , I remember seeing a thread related to this sometime ago but just wanted some insight.

i walked into petco today to buy some horn worms they had a special on and every time I go in there I always check to see if they are carrying chameleons.

they had 3 precious little veileds and , two looked like males and one looked like a female but they all looked quite healthy! They had yellows and seems alert and active and the according to the clerk they had been brought in today. They dont look like they are even 2-3 months yet.

they are housing all 3 of these veileds in a little glass tank and im positive the husbandry is all the way shot out at petco.
So What I need insight on is
is it wrong if I bought them and cared for them?

I know I’m supporting the sorry cycle corporate pet stores have when it comes to chameleons but I just know I can give them a better life and I have the space available. It kills me knowing these chameleons will deteriorate in petco tanks and if they are sold the chameleon will (most of the time) be sold to an inexperienced keeper.

such a conflicted feeling.

I'm a little punchy today from lack of sleep. Don't know how cogent/coherent this will/won't be.
It's not intended as criticism; it's intended as introspection.

If you know the situation, and you know you're going to have these conflicted feelings, why do you look to see if they have chameleons and how they are—or aren't—being cared for every time?

A quote commonly misattributed to Albert Einstein is:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Are you looking for Insight or validation?

Has it occurred to anyone that these big-box pet stores know exactly what they're doing, and what they do or don't do is marketing—pulling at peoples' heart strings to incentivize them to "save" (i.e. buy) the poor little animals? They seem to know their market well.

The answer isn't to buy or not to buy—that's a lose-lose for the chameleons (or a win-win for the stores.)

The answer—as it is in many cases—is social activism and changing the LAW.

Whether you buy/rescue them or not, if you don't get involved to effect change, the practice will continue until the chameleons are gone—or replaced by the next fad exotic "pet".

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/poor-petco-chameleons.183507/#post-1678657

 

[Flick boy]

Do what you think personally the amount of times I've been in my local pet stores and seen similar animals/ situations and wanted to take them home for the same reasons I had to give myself shake and reliase that I had to think about my babies at home 2 dogs a turtle and a cham . I know how it feels. At one point years ago I had 30 dogs and I had to say no at the end more people looking me to take dogs that they couldn't look after ( sadly you can't save them all more laws need to be passed to stop it happening in the first place )

 

[kinyonga]

One question @Inky ...if you buy them, what are you going to do next time you go there and there are two more that need a good home? Buy them too?

 

[Lindasjackson]

This is why I hadn’t gone into pet stores in years. I don’t want to see them. I had to go into a pet store when I found Eustis because my mother needed a cat tree for her cats and I had to get it for her because she’s 86 years old and couldn’t get it herself.now that I have all that I need for Eustis I don’t plan on going into pet stores at all any more other than to pick up crickets and I don’t have to go near the reptiles to do it. They keep the crickets up front. All my other feeders I get online.

 

[Inky]

Trying to reply to everyone,

I guess in reality I came and asked seeking validation.

seeing what you guys would do in cases like these since most if not all of you are passionate about chameleons. It isn't even about money at that point. for me its just being upset because something that has the potential to be one of the most beautiful animals on the planet may not ever even get the opportunity to become that.


and that's a great point @kinyonga
I definitely cant take every chameleon I see but at least I can make a difference even if its 1 or 2 chameleons.

you can only do all you can

I go back to the pet store tomorrow, I've decided I'm going to purchase a 1 or 2 of them. The cycle may never end but I sure as heck want to be able to say I made a difference in a chameleons life or two..

will post pictures of the cuties they look so adorable when i had seen them.

thank you all for your perspectives on this. it has changed mine a lot.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Moody toddlers is a perfect way of describing them

This is absolutely true. My Maynard (rest his soul) was, uh, sassy on a GOOD day. He taught me the meaning of investing in a nice, thick pair of garden gloves. He was sweet as pie outside of his cage, however

 

[PlanetRemulak]

This is why I hadn’t gone into pet stores in years. I don’t want to see them. I had to go into a pet store when I found Eustis because my mother needed a cat tree for her cats and I had to get it for her because she’s 86 years old and couldn’t get it herself.now that I have all that I need for Eustis I don’t plan on going into pet stores at all any more other than to pick up crickets and I don’t have to go near the reptiles to do it. They keep the crickets up front. All my other feeders I get online.

I totally get where you’re coming from on this one, @Lindasjackson! I refuse to buy feeders in stores. I don’t even want to see the reptiles, or any of the animals for that matter.

Trying to reply to everyone,

I guess in reality I came and asked seeking validation.

seeing what you guys would do in cases like these since most if not all of you are passionate about chameleons. It isn't even about money at that point. for me its just being upset because something that has the potential to be one of the most beautiful animals on the planet may not ever even get the opportunity to become that.


and that's a great point @kinyonga
I definitely cant take every chameleon I see but at least I can make a difference even if its 1 or 2 chameleons.

you can only do all you can

I go back to the pet store tomorrow, I've decided I'm going to purchase a 1 or 2 of them. The cycle may never end but I sure as heck want to be able to say I made a difference in a chameleons life or two..

will post pictures of the cuties they look so adorable when i had seen them.

thank you all for your perspectives on this. it has changed mine a lot.

You definitely have the best of intentions. I can relate entirely to how seeing those chams in that ridiculous glass tank made you feel (the Petco where I live keeps them the same way). My fiancé’s brother actually just started working at Petco, knew I had an interest in chameleons and let my fiancé know they have a Jackson’s that isn’t selling. Apparently, they also have a sick female panther chameleon they‘re keeping in the back to see if she recovers. My fiancé relayed this news to me on Sunday, and I’m still bothered about it. I’ve been going through all kinds of guilt for buying a chameleon from a breeder instead of offering to take one of these sad Petco chams, especially the sick panther girl. Assuming she recovers enough to be sold, we all know she’ll be sold to someone that has no idea she‘ll need a lay bin.

I think your heart is most definitely in the right place. As was said earlier, assuming you have the space and resources to care for these chameleons, I think it’s wonderful that you are at least giving them a chance. For the sake of your sanity, try to avoid Petco after you bring them home. You‘d be running the risk of dying inside a little every time you went in, especially knowing you won‘t be able to help the next round of chams. :’(

 

[MissSkittles]

All of us can weigh in and give our opinions, but in the end all that matters is making the decision that you can live with.

 

[kinyonga]

It's a hard position to be in. It's good to save them and yet it won't end the way pet owners keeps them so there will always be more to feel sorry for and wish you could take home with you too.

What needs to be done is to find a way to make Petco accountable for the deaths so that they won't want to allow them to die.

 

[Sonny13]

The answer—as it is in many cases—is social activism and changing the LAW.

There you hit the nail right on its head!! This is the only solution to help these poor creatures, to get things legally regulated.

Let future keepers first mandatory do their homework and then sell them the supplies and when you take this serious, you can make more money as store, then they do now. Downside for them, is that truth in advance comes to play, and that´s that chameleons are pretty expensive when starting-up. However, once you invest correctly in the husbandry, it won´t cost that much any more. Point is, chameleons should be sold through reputable breeders only and stores let Petco should only sell supplies (bigger purchase orders, lower selling prices), next to not every single soul should breed them just for fun and some pocket change.

Sorry, this my honest opinion in this matter.

 

[jamest0o0]

People go so deep into discussing this. No amount of paragraphs will change the facts. It's the same stuff everytime, the emotional vs the logical(not an insult, just personality differences). From a logical standpoint, no you should not. There's no longterm benefit to chameleons when buying from Petco. Emotional, if it really helps you sleep and you'd really like 3 more veileds in your life, then buy them whatever. It isn't that significant overall. Not buying them goes back to the whole... if everyone does something, it will lead to a massive change. Letting them die is very utilitarian though and some people can't handle that.