What chameleons are best to start breeding?

[KobaOregonherper]

where did you get 600? Just did some calculations and it would be like 1,300 for 1 month on federal income tax

Lol from a guy who works retail in a state where the minimum wage is 12$ and my part timers get around 600. Youre automatically assuming your going to get all the hours you hope and dream for, thats now how part time works.

 

[KobaOregonherper]

Roughly 20 hours a week is the average part time, and tbh that's if you're lucky. It's probably more around 15 but we will round up to 20. You'll be lucky if you get paid more than $10. Tbh 10 is nice. I started at 8.25 when I was 21 years old. So 80 hours a month at $10 an hour, then you have to account for any taxes that get taken out.

Thank you for spelling that out for him

 

[Big E]

NO

 

[Chameleon Mike]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...erSLg1uZinJOqimXF_8uVwDdLx1zRn/pub?output=pdf
I think I am missing some thing because the ending price looks way too cheap I also might get more plants I will start with 40 dollars worth and if that is not enough I will get more

Along with the lighting and other items, as previously stated, you have $200 figured for a Male Panther. That is low. From a breeder you'll pay $275-$400 plus shipping costs.

 

[Daesie11]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...erSLg1uZinJOqimXF_8uVwDdLx1zRn/pub?output=pdf
I think I am missing some thing because the ending price looks way too cheap I also might get more plants I will start with 40 dollars worth and if that is not enough I will get more

Also $40 worth of plants wont really get you much coverage. You can either get like 1 really established plants or a bunch of small plants that need time to grow. I've spent 100s just on various plants (which is excessive but also my cham will never want for a place to hide or a place to tuck in for the night) and I know many others have as well.

 

[cyberlocc]

Also $40 worth of plants wont really get you much coverage. You can either get like 1 really established plants or a bunch of small plants that need time to grow. I've spent 100s just on various plants (which is excessive but also my cham will never want for a place to hide or a place to tuck in for the night) and I know many others have as well.

Shoot I just spent a $85 on a seedling .

Also, IDK why all you guys are saying that cage isn't okay for a baby, it is. However I still don't recommend he uses it without another cage already bought.

Dragonstrand sells that exact size cage for 3 month to Juvi Chan's. Also the Kammers use 20x16x30 for full grown Panthers (I think they use Atriums now, slightly bigger, but their old caging was that size(. Not that I would suggest OP or anyone does that, but it is done by one of the most reknowned breeders.

 

[Daesie11]

Shoot I just spent a $85 on a seedling .

Also, IDK why all you guys are saying that cage isn't okay for a baby, it is. However I still don't recommend he uses it without another cage already bought.

Dragonstrand sells that exact size cage for 3 month to Juvi Chan's. Also the Kammers use 20x16x30 for full grown Panthers (I think they use Atriums now, slightly bigger, but their old caging was that size(. Not that I would suggest OP or anyone does that, but it is done by one of the most reknowned breeders.

I think it's more that we dont want him to waste money on a small enclosure when he is going to need a bigger one in the future. It's better to go big now than start small and waste your money. I speak from experience, I have an 18x18x36 for my guy and he is quickly outgrowing it and I'll need to upgrade soon. I wish I had just started big so I wouldnt have to spend money and time on setting up another enclosure then getting him acclimated to a new one. It took him a month to be comfortable in his current one

 

[cyberlocc]

I think it's more that we dont want him to waste money on a small enclosure when he is going to need a bigger one in the future. It's better to go big now than start small and waste your money. I speak from experience, I have an 18x18x36 for my guy and he is quickly outgrowing it and I'll need to upgrade soon. I wish I had just started big so I wouldnt have to spend money and time on setting up another enclosure then getting him acclimated to a new one. It took him a month to be comfortable in his current one

Well right, I agree with that, but he already has the cage in question, he isn't buying it.

I was just saying, that is big enough for a baby to early Juvi Cham, which it's being said it's not.

 

[Daesie11]

Well right, I agree with that, but he already has the cage in question, he isn't buying it.

I was just saying, that is big enough for a baby to early Juvi Cham, which it's being said it's not.

Sorry, I forgot he even had a cage. Isnt it like 12x12x30 or something super small like that? It really depends on how big his cham is when he gets it, I know if I had my boy in an enclosure that small he would be very unhappy, and not only is he only 4 months but he is pretty small for his age. And the stress it could cause his cham to constantly be changing enclosures could be bad for his health. Like I said it took my guy a month before he was actually acclimated and eating well etc and if I had to move him to another enclosure just a few weeks after that I dont think it would be good for his help.
It's not to say it cant be done, i think it's just a matter of making things as easy and streamlined as possible for a new keeper, especially a young one. Yno?

 

[cyberlocc]

Sorry, I forgot he even had a cage. Isnt it like 12x12x30 or something super small like that? It really depends on how big his cham is when he gets it, I know if I had my boy in an enclosure that small he would be very unhappy, and not only is he only 4 months but he is pretty small for his age. And the stress it could cause his cham to constantly be changing enclosures could be bad for his health. Like I said it took my guy a month before he was actually acclimated and eating well etc and if I had to move him to another enclosure just a few weeks after that I dont think it would be good for his help.
It's not to say it cant be done, i think it's just a matter of making things as easy and streamlined as possible for a new keeper, especially a young one. Yno?

Most people always put their new chams in Quarantine cages. If you have 1 Cham in a non bio cage with no other animals, then ya, he can go straight to his forever home.

However, if you have a high dollar bioactive Viv for it, or other animals, than Chams (all reptiles) usually go to a smaller temporary "Quarantine" cage, ideally in a completely different room.

As to the 12x12x20 (it was 20) once again, that cage size is sold, by Dragonstrand for baby to Juvi Chams. It will work for a Cham up to 6-7 months, when they show color. He said if he could use it while he sets up the other one, and that would be fine. It would not be fine if he is not sure the time period he needs to use it ect however.

 

[Daesie11]

Most people always put their new chams in Quarantine cages. If you have 1 Cham in a non bio cage with no other animals, then ya, he can go straight to his forever home.

However, if you have a high dollar bioactive Viv for it, or other animals, than Chams (all reptiles) usually go to a smaller temporary "Quarantine" cage, ideally in a completely different room.

As to the 12x12x20 (it was 20) once again, that cage size is sold, by Dragonstrand for baby to Juvi Chams. It will work for a Cham up to 6-7 months, when they show color. He said if he could use it while he sets up the other one, and that would be fine. It would not be fine if he is not sure the time period he needs to use it ect however.

All of those things are true, but none of them apply to this situation. I think had we given him every situation that anyone ever has housed a cham in we would probably confuse the kid. Information was given to him for his specific circumstance.
I think saying he isnt sure the time period is fair here, considering he is a kid who is just planning to get a summer job that maybe will afford him enough cash to get what he needs. But if we tell him "yeah sure get a cham throw it in that small cage then upgrade when you have the money" -- what if something happens and he doesnt end up making the money he thought he would? And he cant get an upgrade cage but he still has the cham?
I'm not saying anything you're saying is wrong, it's not, it's just that this specific circumstance doesnt really pertain to what you're saying.

 

[AmandaS]

Lol, decide how much money you make after your first check.

 

[cyberlocc]

All of those things are true, but none of them apply to this situation. I think had we given him every situation that anyone ever has housed a cham in we would probably confuse the kid. Information was given to him for his specific circumstance.
I think saying he isnt sure the time period is fair here, considering he is a kid who is just planning to get a summer job that maybe will afford him enough cash to get what he needs. But if we tell him "yeah sure get a cham throw it in that small cage then upgrade when you have the money" -- what if something happens and he doesnt end up making the money he thought he would? And he cant get an upgrade cage but he still has the cham?
I'm not saying anything you're saying is wrong, it's not, it's just that this specific circumstance doesnt really pertain to what you're saying.

Right, well I'm not advocating him using that enclosure without having a full size on standby. Just saying, the generalization of "That's way to small for baby's" is a bad statement.

He did ask, if he could use it as long as he bought the other one, and wanted to use it for a short time to setup the big one. That would be fine.

 

[Beman]

As to the 12x12x20 (it was 20) once again, that cage size is sold, by Dragonstrand for baby to Juvi Chams. It will work for a Cham up to 6-7 months, when they show color. He said if he could use it while he sets up the other one, and that would be fine. It would not be fine if he is not sure the time period he needs to use it ect however.

I totally disagree with you here. A 12x12x20 would be much too small for a cham that is 6-7 months old. And dragon strand does not sell those. Their smallest is an 18x18x36 and their nursery cages are only for babies... He does not recommend any of his smaller sized options for anything other then smaller species of cham or young babies.

 

[Daesie11]

Right, well I'm not advocating him using that enclosure without having a full size on standby. Just saying, the generalization of "That's way to small for baby's" is a bad statement.

He did ask, if he could use it as long as he bought the other one, and wanted to use it for a short time to setup the big one. That would be fine.

But again, assuming that he would be able to get a bigger enclosure in the future isnt smart. If he was an adult with a job then sure we can assume he will be able to, but he is a kid who is just hoping to get a summer job. He has no guarantee that he will be able to get a bigger one. You have to keep things like that in mind, which is why he was advised to not put his cham in that small cage.

 

[cyberlocc]

I totally disagree with you here. A 12x12x20 would be much too small for a cham that is 6-7 months old. And dragon strand does not sell those. Their smallest is an 18x18x36 and their nursery cages are only for babies... He does not recommend any of his smaller sized options for anything other then smaller species of cham or young babies.

Dragonstrand 100% does sell those. I'm sorry, they are 24 tall however.

https://dragonstrand.com/product/compact-cage-system/

That is a holdback cage, it is not for babies, it's for chameleons to live in till they color up as 6-7 month juviniles.

The Kammers as I stated use to keep male adult Panthers in cages smaller than your suggesting for babies.

It's just like snakes, breeders that need many specimens keep them in racks, whether the snake is happy like that or not is debatable, (I wouldn't think so) and small time keepers mainly keep in large Vivs/Aquariums.

Is that to say a Rack size cage is not adequate for a keeper? It could be, could not, depends how you fall in your opinion.


Also as far as sizing is concerned I am with the Kammers new rec. Of an Atrium, 2x2x4 is not ideal cage sizing, at all. It's easy to make takes up less space, but it's not Ideal. A 36x24ishx36ish elevated is superior.

 

[Beman]

Dragonstrand 100% does sell those. I'm sorry, they are 24 tall however.

https://dragonstrand.com/product/compact-cage-system/

That is a holdback cage, it is not for babies, it's for chameleons to live in till they color up as 6-7 month juviniles.

The Kammers as I stated use to keep male adult Panthers in cages smaller than your suggesting for babies.

Right but not 20 inches tall. And it is for smaller species or a holdback until it developes its colors. These are used by experienced breeders that know what they are doing. The OP is only 15 and wanting to get everything that will be correct for their cham long term. With them being younger and less experienced saying that a 12x12x20 cage is fine is not doing them any good.

 

[cyberlocc]

Right but not 20 inches tall. And it is for smaller species or a holdback until it developes its colors. These are used by experienced breeders that know what they are doing. The OP is only 15 and wanting to get everything that will be correct for their cham long term. With them being younger and less experienced saying that a 12x12x20 cage is fine is not doing them any good.

He stated, could he use the cage temporarily while setting up another cage, just so his dad would be happy he used it for a few weeks. If he already had the other cage. That would be fine, I also doubt it's 12x12x20. The only 2 I can think of that size would be the small reptibreeze which is 16x16x20, or the Zilla Atrium which is 18x12x20. Though maybe it's a custom or some oddball.

 

[Daesie11]

Dragonstrand 100% does sell those. I'm sorry, they are 24 tall however.

https://dragonstrand.com/product/compact-cage-system/

That is a holdback cage, it is not for babies, it's for chameleons to live in till they color up as 6-7 month juviniles.

The Kammers as I stated use to keep male adult Panthers in cages smaller than your suggesting for babies.

It's just like snakes, breeders that need many specimens keep them in racks, whether the snake is happy like that or not is debatable, (I wouldn't think so) and small time keepers mainly keep in large Vivs/Aquariums.

Is that to say a Rack size cage is not adequate for a keeper? It could be, could not, depends how you fall in your opinion.


Also as far as sizing is concerned I am with the Kammers new rec. Of an Atrium, 2x2x4 is not ideal cage sizing, at all. It's easy to make takes up less space, but it's not Ideal. A 36x24ishx36ish elevated is superior.

Ok but NONE of the information you are sharing about breeders and keepers who have rooms full of reptiles has anything to do with this post where the OP is not only a new keeper but a teenager. None of it helps him at all. At best he can ignore it but at worst you'll confuse him into getting something he shouldn't be using

 

[Daesie11]

He stated, could he use the cage temporarily while setting up another cage, just so his dad would be happy he used it for a few weeks. If he already had the other cage. That would be fine, I also doubt it's 12x12x20. The only 2 I can think of that size would be the small reptibreeze which is 16x16x20, or the Zilla Atrium which is 18x12x20. Though maybe it's a custom or some oddball.

How often do we tell new keepers to get the enclosure set before the getting the cham? What you're saying is pretty much the opposite.
Why do we keep ignoring the very important factor that this 15 year old kid has no stable form of income?? This is like the most important thing when it comes to what we recommend for him.