What did I do wrong?

[falconut]

My 2 year old Male Veiled Chameleon (Mylo) passed away this morning from MBD. I'm just glad he is no longer suffering. It seemed to happen pretty quickly. He didn't seem to like me anywhere near him, so I tried to put his food in and just leave him alone. He acted normal, or at least I thought he did. He stopped eating for several days, but was shedding and acting normal otherwise. I researched and it appeared to be normal behavior for a shedding chameleon. Then he started staying low in the cage, still not eating and he was still shedding. I figured it might be too hot, thermometer near the basking stick was around 90 degrees. I also started using a hand spray bottle and sprayed him directly, to assist in speeding up his shedding. I even turned off his heat lamp one night to see if he would go up. And note, he still would move away from me any time I tried to look at him. The next day, my son told me he fell. I started researching and some answers were MBD. He indeed did have it and it was pretty advanced and unable to recover. I probably would have seen it earlier if I was able to get near him, but he wanted nothing to do with that.

I would like to consider another chameleon, but won't rush into it as I'll be going on vacation in a month and want to determine what I was doing wrong. I don't want this to happen again. If you don't mind, I'll post the details of my setup and let me know if anything stands out.

Cage: DIY 4x2x2 screen enclosure.

Lighting: I have a basking bulb (75W Exo Terra - 100W in winter) in an 8" dome over rear left corner, a standard CFL in an 8" dome over the rear right corner (for the potho plant) and a 24" Retisun t5 HO fixture with a 22" Reptisun 5.0 (changed every 8 months) over the front. Zoo Med said these bulbs should be changed every 12 months, so I choose to change them every 8 months to be safe. All the lights come on at 10:30am and go off at 10:30pm.

Temps: The cage was around 75 - 80 in the middle and near 90 at the basking location.

Humidity: When the air was on, it would dip down to 40% daytime, but bounce back up to 50% nighttime. Without the air it was 50%-60% daytime.

Misting: I have an automatic misting system that sprays 4 times a day for a minute each time. He really hated the misting and would run from it but then come back to the area after it turned off.

Feeding: I would feed him gut loaded crickets, superworms and the occasional goliath worm. I dusted almost every feeding with ReptiCal calcium w/o D3. Twice a month I would use Reptive & Calcium w/D3. I gutloaded the crickets with hi level fish food, carrots, clear water crystals. The superworms were eatting potatoes and carrots. He was primarily eating crickets for the 1st year and a half, then decided he would only eat superworms and goliath worms. I would try here and there but he would just let the crickets run around without watting for days, so I pulled them and put in worms, which he immediately ate.

Decorations: Branches ranged from 1/4" to 1" in diameter, the one under the basking bulb was about 8" down from the screen and the UVB branch was about the same distance down from the screen. I had a gallon pothos hanging that he would eat the leaves off of, along with two areas of fake plastic vines.

From my knowledge of reptiles, MBD is from the inability to use calcium. Causes could be:

1. There isn't enough UVB, so they don't produce enough or any D3, which they need to absorb the calcium in their diet.
2. They're not getting enough calcium in their diet, so they don't have any to absorb.

I did a lot of research on this and believe I had his setup correct, but obviously I did something wrong. Recently while I was researching more on MBD, I came across posts claiming that 50% of the UVB from the bulbs are being filtered by the screen top and reptisun 5.0 bulbs were really being limited for screen top enclosures. So, this leads me to believe that I should have been using a reptisun 10.0, despite all the people that were successfully keeping theirs under 5.0 bulbs. I believe his feeding routine was good enough, unless I'm wrong. I tried some trout worms, but he wanted nothing to do with them, so I was kind of limited with variety.

I've heard of arcadia bulbs, but I place all my pet orders from Drs Foster, who don't carry them and the bulbs are twice the price with an added shipping cost. Plus, reptisun have a great reputation as a good bulb.

 

[jannb]

I'm very sorry to hear that you lost Milo. I remember when you got him.....it sure doesn't seem like it's been two years. I feel very strongly about being able to handle your chameleons and check them over, look in their mouth and weigh them. I check mine over and weigh them weekly. It's also a good idea to have a vet check them over every 6 months and do routine fecals. Again I am sorry for your loss. He is gone way to soon. Sleep tight little Milo.

 

[KrazyZen]

in all fairness not all chameleons even panthers who tolerates being handled and don't stress as easy as other types may never wanna be handled ever. also these animals should be treated more as a admire from a distance type pet. your husbandry for your pet looks right so i don't see how MBD could be an issue unless your bulbs were old, what i do to solve uvb issues is i allow my cold blooded pals 15-30 mins of real sunshine when possible preferably every day if permitted. i believe this does more then just give the animal whats needed to grow normal the brighter it's surroundings the more happier they seem to be but thats just my oppinion. but remember to provide a shaded cool area in case the day is a hot day it doesn't take long to kill them from over heating this is also a good idea for it's normal enclosure. as for keeping it hydrated just to be in the safe side i setup a cheap dripper system that they can go to if needed you don't need those fancy and expensive watering systems out there in the market if you wanna know how to build a cheap and simple dripper for your pet send me message and i will explain to you how to make one but if you wanna spend the money for the fancy manufactured watering systems go right ahead either one will benefit you regardless. as far as what killed your lizard i couldn't say i'm not a vet but what i do know from my experience with varies species of chameleons i've had as pets or to breed is the effects stress may have to a chameleon, not only can it effect there over all health but is a slow and sad way to have to see them die, thats why when i would talk to a interested customer at the store i would try and sell them as a pet not to be handled much but more to be admired from a distance and they may have to live with knowing the animal may never wanna be handled at all and shouldn't be if thats the case if you truly wanna do whats bests for that animal. and don't take this as me blaming you or saying you created stress to your animal i am just trying to share what i do know and hope it may help you figure out what went wrong and help you out on your next chameleon purchase if you decide to try again . anyone can make a mistake and being able to except that and learn from it will just make you a better pet owner.when i read threads in the forums about ppl with issues with there pet they sometimes say the same things... they provided everything that was needed for the pet and monitored it a lot so what went wrong? can't be something they are doing so it must be that they bought a bad one or something else but nothing they have done...sometimes i think ppl over do it with the attention .. one thing to remember, these are living animals not something mechanical they need to rest and have some peace and quiet also just like we do. And also if you may need a little advise on what to look for or the type of breeders i would try to avoid or so you don't make mistakes i have done and other ppl just like me has done in the past i'd be more then glad to help you and share what i know it's free and maybe helpful to you.

 

[Carlton]

My 2 year old Male Veiled Chameleon (Mylo) passed away this morning from MBD. I'm just glad he is no longer suffering. It seemed to happen pretty quickly. He didn't seem to like me anywhere near him, so I tried to put his food in and just leave him alone. He acted normal, or at least I thought he did. He stopped eating for several days, but was shedding and acting normal otherwise. I researched and it appeared to be normal behavior for a shedding chameleon. Then he started staying low in the cage, still not eating and he was still shedding. I figured it might be too hot, thermometer near the basking stick was around 90 degrees. I also started using a hand spray bottle and sprayed him directly, to assist in speeding up his shedding. I even turned off his heat lamp one night to see if he would go up. And note, he still would move away from me any time I tried to look at him. The next day, my son told me he fell. I started researching and some answers were MBD. He indeed did have it and it was pretty advanced and unable to recover. I probably would have seen it earlier if I was able to get near him, but he wanted nothing to do with that.

I would like to consider another chameleon, but won't rush into it as I'll be going on vacation in a month and want to determine what I was doing wrong. I don't want this to happen again. If you don't mind, I'll post the details of my setup and let me know if anything stands out.

Cage: DIY 4x2x2 screen enclosure.

Lighting: I have a basking bulb (75W Exo Terra - 100W in winter) in an 8" dome over rear left corner, a standard CFL in an 8" dome over the rear right corner (for the potho plant) and a 24" Retisun t5 HO fixture with a 22" Reptisun 5.0 (changed every 8 months) over the front. Zoo Med said these bulbs should be changed every 12 months, so I choose to change them every 8 months to be safe. All the lights come on at 10:30am and go off at 10:30pm.

Temps: The cage was around 75 - 80 in the middle and near 90 at the basking location.

Humidity: When the air was on, it would dip down to 40% daytime, but bounce back up to 50% nighttime. Without the air it was 50%-60% daytime.

Misting: I have an automatic misting system that sprays 4 times a day for a minute each time. He really hated the misting and would run from it but then come back to the area after it turned off.

Feeding: I would feed him gut loaded crickets, superworms and the occasional goliath worm. I dusted almost every feeding with ReptiCal calcium w/o D3. Twice a month I would use Reptive & Calcium w/D3. I gutloaded the crickets with hi level fish food, carrots, clear water crystals. The superworms were eatting potatoes and carrots. He was primarily eating crickets for the 1st year and a half, then decided he would only eat superworms and goliath worms. I would try here and there but he would just let the crickets run around without watting for days, so I pulled them and put in worms, which he immediately ate.

Decorations: Branches ranged from 1/4" to 1" in diameter, the one under the basking bulb was about 8" down from the screen and the UVB branch was about the same distance down from the screen. I had a gallon pothos hanging that he would eat the leaves off of, along with two areas of fake plastic vines.

From my knowledge of reptiles, MBD is from the inability to use calcium. Causes could be:

1. There isn't enough UVB, so they don't produce enough or any D3, which they need to absorb the calcium in their diet.
2. They're not getting enough calcium in their diet, so they don't have any to absorb.

I did a lot of research on this and believe I had his setup correct, but obviously I did something wrong. Recently while I was researching more on MBD, I came across posts claiming that 50% of the UVB from the bulbs are being filtered by the screen top and reptisun 5.0 bulbs were really being limited for screen top enclosures. So, this leads me to believe that I should have been using a reptisun 10.0, despite all the people that were successfully keeping theirs under 5.0 bulbs. I believe his feeding routine was good enough, unless I'm wrong. I tried some trout worms, but he wanted nothing to do with them, so I was kind of limited with variety.

I've heard of arcadia bulbs, but I place all my pet orders from Drs Foster, who don't carry them and the bulbs are twice the price with an added shipping cost. Plus, reptisun have a great reputation as a good bulb.

From your husbandry description I don't think you should be beating yourself up as much. We tend to forget that our chams are individual living creatures who can develop individual health problems despite our best care. What I do know is that there are hundreds of veiled chams kept as yours was who live long healthy lives. IMHO, there may have been a subtle underlying health problem or dietary sensitivity that went undetected for quite a while. It might not have involved MBD. It could have been some other deficiency or organ failure that showed symptoms similar to MBD in the late stages. Without a full necropsy unfortunately you won't know and that information can't help your heart heal. You were using accepted lighting, accepted supplements, and your cage parameters were also standard. The one thing that caught my eye was using fish food in your gutload...I don't know the protein concentration your particular one would have provided, but it might have been higher than desirable. There might have been some kidney issues going on, but again we don't know. Someone more experienced in this could weigh in...I'm not an expert on this.

You were not an irresponsible keeper at all. Sometimes things happen. I once got a fantastic cbb K. fischeri from the Kammers, a little cham who should have had every chance for a great life, and I lost him to kidney disease at 18 months old. I was shocked and taken completely off guard as I had kept fischeri and other montane species, veileds, panthers, verrucosus, and melleri before with some success. The necropsy showed the problems and also showed how little we could have done to save him.

 

[JaxyGirl]

My 2 year old Male Veiled Chameleon (Mylo) passed away this morning from MBD. I'm just glad he is no longer suffering. It seemed to happen pretty quickly. He didn't seem to like me anywhere near him, so I tried to put his food in and just leave him alone. He acted normal, or at least I thought he did. He stopped eating for several days, but was shedding and acting normal otherwise. I researched and it appeared to be normal behavior for a shedding chameleon. Then he started staying low in the cage, still not eating and he was still shedding. I figured it might be too hot, thermometer near the basking stick was around 90 degrees. I also started using a hand spray bottle and sprayed him directly, to assist in speeding up his shedding. I even turned off his heat lamp one night to see if he would go up. And note, he still would move away from me any time I tried to look at him. The next day, my son told me he fell. I started researching and some answers were MBD. He indeed did have it and it was pretty advanced and unable to recover. I probably would have seen it earlier if I was able to get near him, but he wanted nothing to do with that.

I would like to consider another chameleon, but won't rush into it as I'll be going on vacation in a month and want to determine what I was doing wrong. I don't want this to happen again. If you don't mind, I'll post the details of my setup and let me know if anything stands out.

Cage: DIY 4x2x2 screen enclosure.

Lighting: I have a basking bulb (75W Exo Terra - 100W in winter) in an 8" dome over rear left corner, a standard CFL in an 8" dome over the rear right corner (for the potho plant) and a 24" Retisun t5 HO fixture with a 22" Reptisun 5.0 (changed every 8 months) over the front. Zoo Med said these bulbs should be changed every 12 months, so I choose to change them every 8 months to be safe. All the lights come on at 10:30am and go off at 10:30pm.

Temps: The cage was around 75 - 80 in the middle and near 90 at the basking location.

Humidity: When the air was on, it would dip down to 40% daytime, but bounce back up to 50% nighttime. Without the air it was 50%-60% daytime.

Misting: I have an automatic misting system that sprays 4 times a day for a minute each time. He really hated the misting and would run from it but then come back to the area after it turned off.

Feeding: I would feed him gut loaded crickets, superworms and the occasional goliath worm. I dusted almost every feeding with ReptiCal calcium w/o D3. Twice a month I would use Reptive & Calcium w/D3. I gutloaded the crickets with hi level fish food, carrots, clear water crystals. The superworms were eatting potatoes and carrots. He was primarily eating crickets for the 1st year and a half, then decided he would only eat superworms and goliath worms. I would try here and there but he would just let the crickets run around without watting for days, so I pulled them and put in worms, which he immediately ate.

Decorations: Branches ranged from 1/4" to 1" in diameter, the one under the basking bulb was about 8" down from the screen and the UVB branch was about the same distance down from the screen. I had a gallon pothos hanging that he would eat the leaves off of, along with two areas of fake plastic vines.

From my knowledge of reptiles, MBD is from the inability to use calcium. Causes could be:

1. There isn't enough UVB, so they don't produce enough or any D3, which they need to absorb the calcium in their diet.
2. They're not getting enough calcium in their diet, so they don't have any to absorb.

I did a lot of research on this and believe I had his setup correct, but obviously I did something wrong. Recently while I was researching more on MBD, I came across posts claiming that 50% of the UVB from the bulbs are being filtered by the screen top and reptisun 5.0 bulbs were really being limited for screen top enclosures. So, this leads me to believe that I should have been using a reptisun 10.0, despite all the people that were successfully keeping theirs under 5.0 bulbs. I believe his feeding routine was good enough, unless I'm wrong. I tried some trout worms, but he wanted nothing to do with them, so I was kind of limited with variety.

I've heard of arcadia bulbs, but I place all my pet orders from Drs Foster, who don't carry them and the bulbs are twice the price with an added shipping cost. Plus, reptisun have a great reputation as a good bulb.

I'm so sorry to hear about Milo also I also remember when you got him.
But as said above sometimes you do your best and they have an underlying condition that there is no way you could have anticipated just like in people. Things just happen and there is nothing you can do about it. It sounds like you gave him a good life. RIP little Milo.

 

[guanagator]

So sorry for you loss. Really seems like you had it all right though, no big issues apparent in that set up. The only thing I would change if you do get another chameleon is your gut load, more leafy green vegetables. It's hard to lose one unexpectedly I hope it doesn't deter you from another try.

 

[JaxyGirl]

in all fairness not all chameleons even panthers who tolerates being handled and don't stress as easy as other types may never wanna be handled ever. also these animals should be treated more as a admire from a distance type pet. your husbandry for your pet looks right so i don't see how MBD could be an issue unless your bulbs were old, what i do to solve uvb issues is i allow my cold blooded pals 15-30 mins of real sunshine when possible preferably every day if permitted. i believe this does more then just give the animal whats needed to grow normal the brighter it's surroundings the more happier they seem to be but thats just my oppinion. but remember to provide a shaded cool area in case the day is a hot day it doesn't take long to kill them from over heating this is also a good idea for it's normal enclosure. as for keeping it hydrated just to be in the safe side i setup a cheap dripper system that they can go to if needed you don't need those fancy and expensive watering systems out there in the market if you wanna know how to build a cheap and simple dripper for your pet send me message and i will explain to you how to make one but if you wanna spend the money for the fancy manufactured watering systems go right ahead either one will benefit you regardless. as far as what killed your lizard i couldn't say i'm not a vet but what i do know from my experience with varies species of chameleons i've had as pets or to breed is the effects stress may have to a chameleon, not only can it effect there over all health but is a slow and sad way to have to see them die, thats why when i would talk to a interested customer at the store i would try and sell them as a pet not to be handled much but more to be admired from a distance and they may have to live with knowing the animal may never wanna be handled at all and shouldn't be if thats the case if you truly wanna do whats bests for that animal. and don't take this as me blaming you or saying you created stress to your animal i am just trying to share what i do know and hope it may help you figure out what went wrong and help you out on your next chameleon purchase if you decide to try again . anyone can make a mistake and being able to except that and learn from it will just make you a better pet owner.when i read threads in the forums about ppl with issues with there pet they sometimes say the same things... they provided everything that was needed for the pet and monitored it a lot so what went wrong? can't be something they are doing so it must be that they bought a bad one or something else but nothing they have done...sometimes i think ppl over do it with the attention .. one thing to remember, these are living animals not something mechanical they need to rest and have some peace and quiet also just like we do. And also if you may need a little advise on what to look for or the type of breeders i would try to avoid or so you don't make mistakes i have done and other ppl just like me has done in the past i'd be more then glad to help you and share what i know it's free and maybe helpful to you.

Honestly, I agree with a lot that you say except about the hands off part of raising a Cham. There are so many arguments about it. Everybody is so afraid that their Cham is going to die of stress because they are touched and they see a little activity going on around their cages. I can understand if the Cham is a wild caught and has never seen a human or cage in their lives then they should be treated with kid gloves but the majority of chams are from captive lineages that are go on for generations. The chams that people have now have had contact with people since they were babies so a little handling isn't going to kill them!

I'm not saying to treat a Cham like a puppy dog or kitten. But, Chams aren't fish either! I don't think that they are meant to be placed in a small cage with zero stimulation only to be looked at and admired from afar for the rest of their lives. Chams dont get the exercise they need in a cage (even if it is 4ft a High) which can lead to weak muscles, obesity and other diseases etc that even inactive humans succumb to. Also sitting in the same small cage day after day leads to depression which in itself leads to stress. Chams are smarter then we think and because they are not stupid creatures they need stimulation and exercise (outside of their cage) for continued good health.

In my opinion it is important that a Cham can tolerate some handling even if they don't like it.
Chams need to be socialized enough so you can take them out of the cage without their dying of a panic attack. They might not like being handled but taking them out of their cage for any reason whether to bring them outside for some sun etc. (which is so beneficial) shouldnt be a battle. It is important to be able to hold your Cham (in your hand) and look them over closely to detect early symptoms of eye problems and skin conditions. Up close you can hear if they might be having breathing problems before you can see it. You can feel if their grip is strong or weak or if their legs are curved or bowing. You can look at their feet to make sure their feet and nails are ok etc. None of this can be done if your Cham is so afraid to be handled and so nasty you can get it out of the cage.

A Cham that has had very little handling will freak out and be completely stressed if all of a sudden they are being handled because they have to be taken to the vet or they need treatment which requires handling to give them meds. In a case such as this, the fact that they were never handled can cause even more stress which can be detrimental to their treatment.

Regarding chams never enjoying being handled or having a bond with their human in my opinion is false. I do believe some chams really enjoy being handled and getting out of their cages to explore. And as far as I'm concerned it's healthy for both the Cham and the owner. But whether the consensus is that chams should or shouldn't be handled or if they like it or not or if they can bond with their human or not doesn't matter.
It comes down to a matter of personal preference and I for one feel it's important to handle my chams so I can monitor their health and bring them out to exercise and explore. As I write this I'm sitting outside on my deck. My panthers are in the sun on their tree. My female doesn't like to be handled that much(and that is ok) but will tolerate me moving her around without any fuss which is good. My male is very active and likes to walk around on my deck railing and every once and a while I have to pick him up and put him back on his tree. When I do this I give him a little bit of squishing and lovin..he makes a face but he seems ok with it (do I know for sure? No) but he is a healthy well adjusted Cham and I feel it makes us both happy in our own way

 

[falconut]

Thanks all. It makes me feel a little better that it doesn't sounds like it was neglect from my care.

As far as handling, we would occasionally take him out when he was small. Didn't like it, but we could get him out without him freaking out. Once he got about a year old, he wanted no part in it. He would dive for branches just to get away. from me. He was located in the corner of our family room. During the day most of the time he had the room to himself, then most nights after diner would be sitting in there until bedtime. I believe he liked my daughter, cause he would climb down to the bottom corner a lot when she was sitting on the couch next to his cage. Never did he do this if anybody else sat there. She never tried to pick him up cause she was always nervous he would bite her.

The current bulb was only 4 months old. Any thoughts on switching to a Reptisun 10.0, if I decide to get another chameleon?

 

[Andee]

I would change your gutloaded, it was probably the most likely culprit if it actually was mbd. Carrots and potatoes are not the best wet gutloaded available and fish food is definitely not good for feeders or the chameleon being fed.

 

[guanagator]

I wouldn't use a 10.0 unless your sure you can provide the proper gradients for the cham to regulate its own UVB exposure. That's double the UVB output and isn't really necessary unless you have a big viv that's very densely planted.

 

[falconut]

I wouldn't use a 10.0 unless your sure you can provide the proper gradients for the cham to regulate its own UVB exposure. That's double the UVB output and isn't really necessary unless you have a big viv that's very densely planted.

Yeah, but with 50% of the UVB being filtered out by the screen, wouldn't a 10.0 on top of the screen be equivalent to a 5.0 not going through the screen? The cage is 4' tall, so I think he/she would be able to go lower to get lower levels. Wouldn't this be true? Or do they have no idea they're getting too much.

I tried using romaine lettuce, but the crickets wouldn't eat it. When I tried some premium tropical flakes I had, they were eating it so fast. I figured if fish can survive soley on it, then it maybe it's okay. I tried carrots and they would eat that, so I also added that. The superworms get potatoes and carrots, but they mainly eat the potatoes. I had some flukers gut load, but I read that it really isn't good, so that's why I wasn't using it. What are good types of foods for gut loading crickets and superworms?[/QUOTE]

 

[guanagator]

The screen filters between 20-30% from what I've heard/ read and the T5 5.0 is already stronger than the t8 5.0 that many keepers have used for years successfully. That said exceptions exist and I personally use a few 12% T5s but they are in heavily planted vivs and the chameleon can always get away form the UVB. The gutloading advice I've followed with success was from @sandrachameleon in this blog, for easier option repashy bug burger as an all around or cricket crack as a dry gutload with fresh greens and fruit for the wet portion.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/entry/feeder-nutrition-amp-gutloading.75/

 

[OldChamKeeper]

"The simplest answer tends to be the correct one."


Your husbandry looks ok. Better than the average Veiled keeper.

1- Did it really have MBD? Maybe not.
2- Could the individual animal just have had bad luck and been sick despite the correct environment?
3- For a 4' tall cage with decent plant cover a 10.0 is ok as long as the animal is not a baby. I'd still say you need a good hour or two a week outside however and that's just a minimum.
4- Crap happens. It happens to every single keeper regardless of their skill, experience, and access to real Herp vets. I've seen people with all the money in the world fail despite a badass set up while seeing a 9 year old kid get some to breed using nothing but stuff he salvaged from a pet store dumpster and the books he was loaned.

Try again, get a fresh bulb. Change up the diet and used the Repashy Calcium /w medium D3 once a week. Rest of the week use the straight calcium. Once a month use a multivitamin. Normally I use the med D3 once a month but everybody's set ups are different. If your animal really did have MBD, you need to tweak things a little with D3. Just a little.

 

[Chachi]

in all fairness not all chameleons even panthers who tolerates being handled and don't stress as easy as other types may never wanna be handled ever. also these animals should be treated more as a admire from a distance type pet. your husbandry for your pet looks right so i don't see how MBD could be an issue unless your bulbs were old, what i do to solve uvb issues is i allow my cold blooded pals 15-30 mins of real sunshine when possible preferably every day if permitted. i believe this does more then just give the animal whats needed to grow normal the brighter it's surroundings the more happier they seem to be but thats just my oppinion. but remember to provide a shaded cool area in case the day is a hot day it doesn't take long to kill them from over heating this is also a good idea for it's normal enclosure. as for keeping it hydrated just to be in the safe side i setup a cheap dripper system that they can go to if needed you don't need those fancy and expensive watering systems out there in the market if you wanna know how to build a cheap and simple dripper for your pet send me message and i will explain to you how to make one but if you wanna spend the money for the fancy manufactured watering systems go right ahead either one will benefit you regardless. as far as what killed your lizard i couldn't say i'm not a vet but what i do know from my experience with varies species of chameleons i've had as pets or to breed is the effects stress may have to a chameleon, not only can it effect there over all health but is a slow and sad way to have to see them die, thats why when i would talk to a interested customer at the store i would try and sell them as a pet not to be handled much but more to be admired from a distance and they may have to live with knowing the animal may never wanna be handled at all and shouldn't be if thats the case if you truly wanna do whats bests for that animal. and don't take this as me blaming you or saying you created stress to your animal i am just trying to share what i do know and hope it may help you figure out what went wrong and help you out on your next chameleon purchase if you decide to try again . anyone can make a mistake and being able to except that and learn from it will just make you a better pet owner.when i read threads in the forums about ppl with issues with there pet they sometimes say the same things... they provided everything that was needed for the pet and monitored it a lot so what went wrong? can't be something they are doing so it must be that they bought a bad one or something else but nothing they have done...sometimes i think ppl over do it with the attention .. one thing to remember, these are living animals not something mechanical they need to rest and have some peace and quiet also just like we do. And also if you may need a little advise on what to look for or the type of breeders i would try to avoid or so you don't make mistakes i have done and other ppl just like me has done in the past i'd be more then glad to help you and share what i know it's free and maybe helpful to you.

 

[Chachi]

I have no idea. If it was mbd, i dont know how the heck he got it. I was reading your stuff and you use what i use. Im gonna change brands of calcium. I also let all my chams have some real sun. I have a couple of cages nesr windows and i le them all sit on my plants that sit on my kitchen table by the sun. I live in Denver. Its sunshiney almost every day. But im doing what you did. Im scared now. Please note my name and try to let me know whatever you decide cause your info looks like it came from me.

 

[alphakenc]

Stop eating can be a parasite problem,unless u have a fresh fecal test ,its hard to tell if the cham are infested with parasite.
Also the superworm can be very addictive when feeding regularly,it should always use as a treat.
R.I.P Mylo

 

[falconut]

I have no idea. If it was mbd, i dont know how the heck he got it. I was reading your stuff and you use what i use. Im gonna change brands of calcium. I also let all my chams have some real sun. I have a couple of cages nesr windows and i le them all sit on my plants that sit on my kitchen table by the sun. I live in Denver. Its sunshiney almost every day. But im doing what you did. Im scared now. Please note my name and try to let me know whatever you decide cause your info looks like it came from me.

Do you have the windows open when the chameleons are near the windows or on the table? If not, most likely the window glass would be blocking the UVB. In NJ I can take my lizards outside, but winter it's too cold. But, I'm sure Denver is the same.

I'll probably wind up getting another chameleon, not sure if I'll do a veiled or a different species. I may even get one local this time that way I can see the individuals personality. Even though he didn't really show attitude until he got bigger.

 

[Chachi]

Do you have the windows open when the chameleons are near the windows or on the table? If not, most likely the window glass would be blocking the UVB. In NJ I can take my lizards outside, but winter it's too cold. But, I'm sure Denver is the same.

I'll probably wind up getting another chameleon, not sure if I'll do a veiled or a different species. I may even get one local this time that way I can see the individuals personality. Even though he didn't really show attitude until he got bigger.

My windows have screens and they are open I dont have ac. The weather here is beautiful. A lot of winter days are 65 or so and blaring hot sun
Steam comes up off the streets
Its beautiful here. Im a little wastful with the heat and open windows when its beautiful and steamy like that. My jackson raises his back and slants himself to the sun. He loves the chill and sun warmth. I have 5. You should get another. Male Jacksons are great.

 

[falconut]

Sounds like a perfect setup you have there. I was looking at the Jacksons, my wife really doesn't like their look. She's not a big fan of the horns, I think they're unique looking.

 

[Andee]

I love my female Jackson's. However I must admit she is far less friendly than my panther. I suppose this is because I medicate her all the time. However she now very readily eats from my hand. I love her grumpiness, it makes her adorable, and she is getting much better these last few months when she started hand feeding.