PandoraChams
New Member
I have an amazing story to share...
Granted I am not a long time Cham owner..but I have years of experience with animals..both as a 30 yr long dog breeder/show person and commercial kennel owner.
I had my first batch of Veiled eggs coming to term from a May 8th laying. The set up I had the eggs in was in my closet and maintained the temps in the high 70's which worked well while the weather was warm, but when it turned cold the closet got too cold..so in a emergency situation, I moved the containers to a new area and added different heat..( I finally went out and got an incubator)
So after the move, I had several eggs break open and I could tell that the babies were too young to survive and were obviously stillborn. Then I had a live one born and he is doing well..but there are still 20 some eggs still left..day after day, nothing..no more hatchlings..after a week... So I wondered, "Are they alive or dead? The eggs look alive, big white and plump..while the ones the dead babies came out of were shriveling and turning yellow.
I don't know why the one came out great and the rest have not..but over the weekend, I had another shell break open..not like a pip..but a break in the middle.
This baby looked full term and had color where the others did not..but he was not moving, not breathing that I could see and after checking him thoroughly, finding no movement, I just figured he was just another dead one.
So I laid him on a paper towel and set it on my laptop keyboard which was mildly warm, with my intention of wrapping him up and disposing of him..I was busy with cleaning up the damaged egg, checking the remaining eggs and catching a phone call I believe,
As I am sitting by my laptoptalking on the phone, I noticed a very slight twitch in one of the legs..still no other movement. Could it be just a death knell, muscle jerk? I picked him up, turned him over and looked very carefully for any signs of life..still nothing that convinced me that he was alive. Still he was green and not black or colorless.
So I was not going to toss this one out until he was stiff..just in case.
I got a magnifying glass and looked again..and to my incredible surprise I could see slight respiration's that you could not see with the naked eye..he remained curled up in a ball, with no obvious movement.
The fact that he was still breathing, gave me hope that maybe he was a few days early and needed time to mature out..he was tiny, but only slightly more than the one born wiggling out of his shell.
I put him in a cloth lined cup in an incubator and watched him..checking on his every few minutes..suffice to say I did not get much done this weekend.
I knew that he would have some residual protein from the shell but eventually if he did not get up and start looking for food, he would die..so I gathered up some pedialyte and some "Canivoire Care, which my Vet had given me when one of my females went down this summer. I also had kept a long thin needle with a slight ball on the end of it which connects to a 1cc syringe..
After 24 hours, still no movement but I could see respiration's. I took a tooth pick and pried open his mouth (another clue he was still alive) in order to get the feeding tube in his mouth..I gave him 3 drops of fluid..and tucked him away..I stayed up to 4am watching him and monitoring his heat and humidity..but eventually I had to get to sleep. I awoke at 830am and checked him..he did not look good..so I fed him again..and within an half hour he was moving his legs ever so slightly. Still curled into a ball, not moving.. he remained curled up in a ball laying on his back unless I moved him to turn him.
I became obsessed..until he either died or lived I was not going to give up..and it was not about the "worth" or value..it was just about his life..
I waited another 6 hours and forced fluid again..I was not sure if I was hurting him or helping him..trying to hold this tiny thing, get his mouth open, was very stressful to him..he would turn dark or black after handling him and I would convince myself that he was dying again....then if left alone he would lighten back up to a green color again..He would even darken when I shined the flashlight over him..to check on him, even though he had never opened his eyes.
Finally after 48 hours of being catatonic, he finally flipped over and got up on his legs..attempting to crawl out of the cup I had him in.
I was amazed and thrilled but we are far from a successful ending to this story..when I woke up this morning he had gone down hill again. Forced fluids and put him back into the incubator..and after awhile he came to life once again..he is still very thin and while I have plenty of fruit flies, he did not seem interested in eating..so I forced fluids again..and he is crawling around..and looks like he may have a fatter stomach.This is the end of day 3 and I can only hope he will make it..
So the gist of this story is not to be too quick to toss out the stillborn's especially if they are born with color.
During this whole process I did not have a mentor to help me or pass my ideas to..but I did visit and read the Chameleons Forums for potential help and was able to get some information which helped me with temps and humidity of newborns.
I am hopeful that I will be able to attach the photos I took during this event perhaps it will help others.
I didn't get into details but if anyone is interested, contact me and I can give you more information.
Granted I am not a long time Cham owner..but I have years of experience with animals..both as a 30 yr long dog breeder/show person and commercial kennel owner.
I had my first batch of Veiled eggs coming to term from a May 8th laying. The set up I had the eggs in was in my closet and maintained the temps in the high 70's which worked well while the weather was warm, but when it turned cold the closet got too cold..so in a emergency situation, I moved the containers to a new area and added different heat..( I finally went out and got an incubator)
So after the move, I had several eggs break open and I could tell that the babies were too young to survive and were obviously stillborn. Then I had a live one born and he is doing well..but there are still 20 some eggs still left..day after day, nothing..no more hatchlings..after a week... So I wondered, "Are they alive or dead? The eggs look alive, big white and plump..while the ones the dead babies came out of were shriveling and turning yellow.
I don't know why the one came out great and the rest have not..but over the weekend, I had another shell break open..not like a pip..but a break in the middle.
This baby looked full term and had color where the others did not..but he was not moving, not breathing that I could see and after checking him thoroughly, finding no movement, I just figured he was just another dead one.
So I laid him on a paper towel and set it on my laptop keyboard which was mildly warm, with my intention of wrapping him up and disposing of him..I was busy with cleaning up the damaged egg, checking the remaining eggs and catching a phone call I believe,
As I am sitting by my laptoptalking on the phone, I noticed a very slight twitch in one of the legs..still no other movement. Could it be just a death knell, muscle jerk? I picked him up, turned him over and looked very carefully for any signs of life..still nothing that convinced me that he was alive. Still he was green and not black or colorless.
So I was not going to toss this one out until he was stiff..just in case.
I got a magnifying glass and looked again..and to my incredible surprise I could see slight respiration's that you could not see with the naked eye..he remained curled up in a ball, with no obvious movement.
The fact that he was still breathing, gave me hope that maybe he was a few days early and needed time to mature out..he was tiny, but only slightly more than the one born wiggling out of his shell.
I put him in a cloth lined cup in an incubator and watched him..checking on his every few minutes..suffice to say I did not get much done this weekend.
I knew that he would have some residual protein from the shell but eventually if he did not get up and start looking for food, he would die..so I gathered up some pedialyte and some "Canivoire Care, which my Vet had given me when one of my females went down this summer. I also had kept a long thin needle with a slight ball on the end of it which connects to a 1cc syringe..
After 24 hours, still no movement but I could see respiration's. I took a tooth pick and pried open his mouth (another clue he was still alive) in order to get the feeding tube in his mouth..I gave him 3 drops of fluid..and tucked him away..I stayed up to 4am watching him and monitoring his heat and humidity..but eventually I had to get to sleep. I awoke at 830am and checked him..he did not look good..so I fed him again..and within an half hour he was moving his legs ever so slightly. Still curled into a ball, not moving.. he remained curled up in a ball laying on his back unless I moved him to turn him.
I became obsessed..until he either died or lived I was not going to give up..and it was not about the "worth" or value..it was just about his life..
I waited another 6 hours and forced fluid again..I was not sure if I was hurting him or helping him..trying to hold this tiny thing, get his mouth open, was very stressful to him..he would turn dark or black after handling him and I would convince myself that he was dying again....then if left alone he would lighten back up to a green color again..He would even darken when I shined the flashlight over him..to check on him, even though he had never opened his eyes.
Finally after 48 hours of being catatonic, he finally flipped over and got up on his legs..attempting to crawl out of the cup I had him in.
I was amazed and thrilled but we are far from a successful ending to this story..when I woke up this morning he had gone down hill again. Forced fluids and put him back into the incubator..and after awhile he came to life once again..he is still very thin and while I have plenty of fruit flies, he did not seem interested in eating..so I forced fluids again..and he is crawling around..and looks like he may have a fatter stomach.This is the end of day 3 and I can only hope he will make it..
So the gist of this story is not to be too quick to toss out the stillborn's especially if they are born with color.
During this whole process I did not have a mentor to help me or pass my ideas to..but I did visit and read the Chameleons Forums for potential help and was able to get some information which helped me with temps and humidity of newborns.
I am hopeful that I will be able to attach the photos I took during this event perhaps it will help others.
I didn't get into details but if anyone is interested, contact me and I can give you more information.
