NashansCamos
Chameleon Enthusiast
actually above i said that it never gets below 60 but i might be wrong I think it can range from 55-70
Why are all my BSFL dead????!!!!
- Thread starter NashansCamos
- Start date
Pearl Fields
Avid Member
does anyone know if the BSFL will grow without food? And why should I not feed them? I am confused because if they are a staple feeder than I can’t gutload them??
We use them as feeders because of their calcium levels. Yes you can give them food if you want but it makes them smell like pure ammonia and is one of the worst smells. To my knowledge they do not exactly gut load the way a roach or cricket will. They will pupate into flies without feeding. I use them in the maggot stage but mostly I like them as an enrichment feeder in fly stage. It allows the cham to chase and utilize his tongue.
coastal_chameleon
Avid Member
order the size you need , if you buy small ones you can feed them to grow but its going to smell really bad . then when you ready to feed them off take the food away and let them clear their system (poop) for a couple days then rinse them off .. they produce ammonia when they eat and that's no Bueno for you cham .
Pearl Fields
Avid Member
Ok thanks.
Ok I can leave them outside because if the smell, temps outside are ok. Wont they lose all the nutrients from gutloading if you wait for them to pass the poop or no??
Does this mean they can’t be a staple?? And that they won’t absorb nutrition from gutloading?
Ok I can leave them outside because if the smell, temps outside are ok. Wont they lose all the nutrients from gutloading if you wait for them to pass the poop or no??
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
Their claim to fame is their Calcium to phosphorus ratio which is 2-3 to 1. Similar to that found in a reptiles serum, and much better than basically everything else that is used for food, and also the reason why you don’t need to dust them with calcium
It seems they maintain this ratio throughout the larval stage, but likely reverses to less than 2:1 after shedding the pupal exoskeleton
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So they can be a staple. But when we talk about staple it includes variety. So my staple feeders right now for my boys are:
Dubia
Crickets
BSFL
Black soldier flies
hornworms
For my baby he gets a mixture... 6 dubia, 6 crickets, 3 bsfl, 1-2 small hornworms and then black soldier flies 2-5 depending on what hatches out...
Dubia and crickets are very well gutloaded. hornworms eat their food. BSFL and the flies are not gutloaded or supplemented.
Vs my adult on a diet 2-3 feeders total with 2 black soldier flies for enrichment.
1 dubia, 1 cricket, 1 small hornworm
2 crickets, 1 bsfl
each feeding his is mixed up... But always included are well gutloaded feeders as well.
So you would not want to feed a baby mostly bsfl and a few dubia. This is not giving a diverse diet. So yes it is a staple but it is never a main one. They are fed for the calcium to phosphorus ratio it is the only feeder besides Black soldier flies that I do not add supplements to.
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
Variety is definitely the key. If you haven’t listened to it, check out this episode of the chameleon breeder podcast.
https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/gutloading-chameleon-feeders/
Bill Strand speaks with John Courteney-Smith, the brains behind Arcadia, and he concedes even mealworms can serve a purpose in a highly varied diet as a source of fiber. The message is variety. Feed as many different food sources as possible
https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/gutloading-chameleon-feeders/
Bill Strand speaks with John Courteney-Smith, the brains behind Arcadia, and he concedes even mealworms can serve a purpose in a highly varied diet as a source of fiber. The message is variety. Feed as many different food sources as possible
Pearl Fields
Avid Member
Ok thanks the variety part has not been the best lately so now we are really trying to expand it.
Mawtyplant
Chameleon Enthusiast
actually, bsfl small is also an antibiotic/antisceptic substance effective on the bacteria causing respiratory infection, its not nocive for our chameleon but.. they usually dont like the taste
The reason shy they died is probably because the addition of lack of food and relatively cold temperatures. What whas the substrate/media?
Pearl Fields
Avid Member
@NashansCamos said in the first post there was no substrate or anything. ?actually, bsfl small is also an antibiotic/antisceptic substance effective on the bacteria causing respiratory infection, its not nocive for our chameleon but.. they usually dont like the taste
The reason shy they died is probably because the addition of lack of food and relatively cold temperatures. What whas the substrate/media?
coastal_chameleon
Avid Member
I hear bsfl can help with parisites ! Is that true ?
actually, bsfl small is also an antibiotic/antisceptic substance effective on the bacteria causing respiratory infection, its not nocive for our chameleon but.. they usually dont like the taste
The reason shy they died is probably because the addition of lack of food and relatively cold temperatures. What whas the substrate/media?
[/QUOTe I heard it can treap pin worms ??!?! Is this true??
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
This studies suggest they are not anti-parasitic vs coccidian parasites Eimeria nieschulzi and Eimeria tenella IR ascaris nematodes
https://meridian.allenpress.com/jfp...ransmission-of-Animal?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
Did you find any little tiny Kool-Aid cups in the container? (Sorry—had to ask...
)My experiences with BSFL are limited; I'll explain below.
Would you mind sharing who that supplier was?
I ordered some from Symton (which has a really good FAQ section on their site), which had the best price & rep at the time. I think they didn't know I needed them live & kickin' for a fussy beardie, and what I received I believed to be "old stock" or something—80% were dead or pupated. I contacted the company and explained the situation, and they replaced the order—no questions asked.
Unfortunately, by the time the replacement order (100% white & wigglin') arrived, Ol' Stinkeye had outgrown that size BSFL, and he ate them in a few days instead of the 2 weeks I estimated with the original order. By this time I had switched to dubias & super worms, and I haven't bothered with BSFL again.
Both times, However, the BSFL came in some kind of substrate medium, and seemed to do fine in that.
If I find need to order some for my cham, I'll have no reservations ordering from Symton again.
EDIT: Answers to a lot of questions brought up in this thread can be found on the FAQ page linked above.
SourGrape4u
Avid Member
Not sure why people say not to feed them since that isnt true. I have brought up thousands to fly stage and had babies from those flies. I feed thin slices of sweet potatoes and baby carrots. First this keeps the soils moist in a closed container and second they eat the heck out of it and get 2x the plumpness which makes them easier to feed off being a tad bigger.
I put them in a big container with a 2x2 square cut out on top and screen hot glued to it. With about 4-5 in of lightly damp reptile block soil.
I put them in a big container with a 2x2 square cut out on top and screen hot glued to it. With about 4-5 in of lightly damp reptile block soil.
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’ve been getting my bsfl from site sponsor Calcigrubs and am pretty pleased with them. Not sure of the substrate that they send them in...looks almost like pulverized cork. I tried keeping them as they came but they were smelling like death so now I just move them to moist coco coir soil and they do great. I do give them bits of shaved carrot, squash or sweet potato maybe once a week.
Mawtyplant
Chameleon Enthusiast
hmm that will surprise me if its the case.. but nature always a bucket of surprise! (never ear about that sorry
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