Why

[ColorCham427]

Once you see a true screaming panther in person you will know why. Rarely crazy screamers are produced, but when you see one in person you will be oooooooooh that's why! lol..

plus you can hatch Veiled eggs even if you incubate them in dry oat meal mixed with rusty metal shavings lightly mixed with some apple sauce... lol just exaggerating a little


There are lots of breeders out there that sell panthers at much lower costs than the top breeders that also provide good care sheets and nice communication a long with a very reasonable health and satisfaction guarantee.

If I were you, I would get a panther or Veiled from a known dealer on this forum. Kingsnake and faunaclassifieds often have some unknown people selling them for a quick buck, or even wild caughts claiming they are captive bred.

The top breeders charge more money because they work on a level of many many more animals. Some people sell chameleons for a living with a side job, most people are the other way around.

These top breeders with nice fancy websites not only offer unrelated pairs for smaller breeders to buy and work with, but they also have a serious customer service with phone calls allowed and they'll also hook you up with set-ups.


Edit: And these couple businesses are the only businesses from what I know of that offer a month or longer health and satisfaction guarantee when you agree to use their method of care. Most people can't beat that sort of customer commitment.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

When i bought my first veiled in '96 I think i paid around the same price 129-149 something like that. People need to realize if they want cb the costs assoc with raising these guys/gals. Everyone wants a flashy healthy cham but then they want it for next to nothing. As a small breeder thats my pet peeve.

 

[jannb]

Jannb! Your veileds are not the norm color wise. You just happen to have two of the most gorgeous veileds out there (you lucky dog!) AND you have ones with lots of personality! Pan gets so stressed out by everything that I feel bad about even being in the room with him sometimes... He's got true aggression and a leave-me-the-heck-alone personality. He's never been friendly, not even as a baby. He was always aggressive from day one! The only 'personality' Pan tends to show is stress and dislike.

Sometimes I wish I could just put him back in the wild where he wouldn't have to see people ever again. I love the "veiled" attitude, but not when everything that I do stresses out the poor animal...

Kara, Luie & Camille are not the only bright veileds…..other people out there have them and all 27 of their babies are turning out bright and very friendly.

Have you tried to free range Pan? Usually after they are out of the cage for awhile they are much nicer. You should send me Pan for a couple of months and let me sweetening him up for you.

 

[eisentrauti]

When i bought my first veiled in '96 I think i paid around the same price 129-149 something like that. People need to realize if they want cb the costs assoc with raising these guys/gals. Everyone wants a flashy healthy cham but then they want it for next to nothing. As a small breeder thats my pet peeve.

Exactly ! Most of the people couldn't even imagine how much work it is to raise chameleons and what it cost, food, electricty etc.

 

[Chuck67]

Way back when my first WC adult Panthers were 69.99 for the male and 49.99 for a female. Parsons were 129.99 (had 14 of them). My first pair of veileds were 700.00 for the pair. Things have changed. My first pancake tortoise was 39.99 and they went up to 400-500 each. Again things have changed.

Chuck

 

[jannb]

Exactly ! Most of the people couldn't even imagine how much work it is to raise chameleons and what it cost, food, electricty etc.

I raised a small clutch of 27 veiled babies earlier this year and I was going to make a post about the cost but only got through the first months charge card statement and I spent over $1000.00 the first month and I didn't even thing about electricity. I'm not complaining because I enjoyed every minute of it. I just think it's sad to see these new members get on hear and they just got their first cham and they can’t afford a vet visit when it's eyes are shut, they can't afford the proper cage, lights and supplements and then the next thing you know they have bought a female and breed their chams. I am an older, responsible adult and it was hard for me and took allot of time to do things correctly but it was so worth it to me because I raised 27 healthy happy babies and found all of them good homes.

 

[Trace]

I love these price discussions.

I've asked this before but can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300 or more?

Yes, they do have smaller clutches than Veileds but Panthers are being produced in greater numbers every year by big breeders and small hobbiests alike. The costs are the same to raise a baby to selling age and it's not any more difficult to breed Panthers over Veileds. It isn't. As PSI mentioned, the prices of other mass produced reptiles (cresties, leos, beardies, corns) have dropped considerably over the years, why not Panthers?

The only good thing I can see about Panthers being priced the way they are is people will tend to care for that animal better than a Veiled they picked up on a whim at a reptile show for $20 and that is proven almost every day here on the forums. The cost of a proper UV light is more than the price of that poor Veiled.

While I don't want to see Panther Chameleons being sold for $20 I don't think that "fancy colours" is a valid reason for artificially high prices.

 

[Psi]

I've asked this before but can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300 or more?

Yes, they do have smaller clutches than Veileds but Panthers are being produced in greater numbers every year by big breeders and small hobbiests alike. The costs are the same to raise a baby to selling age and it's not any more difficult to breed Panthers over Veileds. It isn't. As PSI mentioned, the prices of other mass produced reptiles (cresties, leos, beardies, corns) have dropped considerably over the years, why not Panthers?

The only good thing I can see about Panthers being priced the way they are is people will tend to care for that animal better than a Veiled they picked up on a whim at a reptile show for $20 and that is proven almost every day here on the forums. The cost of a proper UV light is more than the price of that poor Veiled.

While I don't want to see Panther Chameleons being sold for $20 I don't think that "fancy colours" is a valid reason for artificially high prices.

Actually I think Colour is a decent part of the equation.
Panthers are in such high demand right now that I can't actually get my hands on any wholesale animals right now.

I think a lot of people are also being smart about Panthers (somewhat Ball Pythons too) that they're not allowing the prices to bottom out just to move animals.

I think 250-500 is fair for a male (depending on the local of Panther(in Canada Specifically)) and 200-400 for females.

 

[Olimpia]

You can still get panthers for less than $200 from good breeders. The only two panthers I've paid for were from the Chameleon Co and each was $150. That's more than decent for two gorgeous animals from a reputable breeder. I refuse to pay over $200 for a pet besides a dog, because there just isn't anything that makes it more worth it to me, just a pet owner. I can see how investing in great animals from great bloodlines for $300+ is worth it for a breeder, but not for me.

But I repeat what I said earlier, I don't think that panther prices should drop super low, but I don't think Veiled prices should be low too. Like it's been said, the cost of raising them is the same, so it seems unfair to breeders to sell them for so little.

 

[Trace]

Remember Canada has a much smaller herp keeping population and while it is growing it is nowhere near our neighbours to the south.

I don't think there has been a WC Madagascar shipment (or Tanzania, Cameroon et.al.for that matter) in ages up here. I don't necessarily hang out with the big names in reptile importing/selling/events anymore so correct me if I'm wrong. I highly doubt we will see any of these before the end of the year either as I think quotas have been used up for 2009. That may explain the lack of wholesale WC animals.

I too am surprised at the still high prices of BP's but realistically it's all about producing the latest expensive morph and by that proving you have a bigger errrr accoutrement than the next guy. Can you even sell a normal BP anymore or are they simply used as Drymarchon or Varanid food these days.

There are some gorgeous Panthers out there no doubt and I'm sure I'll own another one as a pet at some point because they are great little chameleons but I guess after seeing so many over the years, I don't feel that colour is a valid reason for them being the price they are.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

The reason panthers are worth $300 and veileds $50 is because that is what people are willing to pay for them. Demand sets the price. Supply and demand. Panthers are harder to breed than veileds. It's just that people are willing to pay a premium for some animals.

Part of it is marketing. Pure bloodlines from specific locales are a great marketing tool. People desire a pure locale. It is difficult to know what you're getting unless you buy from a reputable breeder - someone you can trust. People will pay more if they have a good chance at getting what they want. Pay less, and you risk getting a dull gray animal with a dubious genetic makeup!

It's the market. If people are willing to pay $300 for an animal, then the animal is worth $300.00.

 

[KingJulien]

There are some gorgeous Panthers out there no doubt and I'm sure I'll own another one as a pet at some point because they are great little chameleons but I guess after seeing so many over the years, I don't feel that colour is a valid reason for them being the price they are.

I've asked this before but can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300 or more?

Maybe you don't agree, but that doesn't mean the price point is invalid. As stated numerous times, it's all about supply and demand. There are many products on the market that are priced way higher than their actual cost, or priced higher than their direct competitiors despite very little to zero differentiation. One only needs to go to shoe shopping to see this.

 

[summoner12]

One only needs to go to shoe shopping to see this.

Or hand bag shopping....


yeah... pay $400 for a small wallet made of canvas with some letters on it...

I'll keep the wallet my GF got me from the duty-free store on her trip back home to Chicago 5 years ago.

 

[Chuck67]

I've asked this before but can anyone tell me a valid reason why F. pardalis are worth $300 or more?

They COST that much because people pay it!


Look at the recent post on here about XXX babies they started at 40 no one bit and now they are 30.

If no one paid the high prices then the prices would drop.

Plain and simple.

Chuck

 

[chdwckvnstrsslhm]

Veileds used to have value, I remember buying one as a kid (10-15 years ago) and I believe the retail sticker on him at the time was 129.99.
The problem was that they began getting over bred and the demand for them wasn't present so they bottomed out (still today they're extremely hard for most breeders to make a good amount from strictly breeder veileds).
It's happened in most markets though.
The Corn Snake market got the crap bred out of it, and again everything plummets to the ground.
I'm slightly shocked that the Ball Python market is managing to hold on as well as it is for as many new people getting into breeding (me included).
People are starting to sell Crested Geckos for 20$ a piece here, though their feeding requirements are different and extremely cheap compared to Chameleons, at 20$ is it even really worth breeding?

It's a vicious cycle that hits almost everything in the world, but that's what happens in a Capitalist society.

lol I got MY first pair of veileds for $150 each.

 

[pssh]

Kara, Luie & Camille are not the only bright veileds…..other people out there have them and all 27 of their babies are turning out bright and very friendly.

Have you tried to free range Pan? Usually after they are out of the cage for awhile they are much nicer. You should send me Pan for a couple of months and let me sweetening him up for you.

I wish you would! I've tried free ranging Pan 24/7 before and he never turned any color but dark dark green/brown. He even climbed out of the free range in my bathroom and walked back to his cage and hung out on top one day. I have no idea what's with him, but he's just a stinky pants. He doesn't even like being outside unless Hyperion is there with him. (That's a whole different story. He tries to mate with Hyperion if he even catches the smallest glimpse of him! They no longer receive sunlight outside together on different bushes/trees.) Maybe a lady would cheer him up? I feel like they would have to be housed together in the free-range to make him like it though, and that's not something I particularly want to take on...

 

[jackscham]

Btw, I didn't mean any disrespect to veileds when I used the pickup truck analogy--I have a veiled and she's amazing. I was just comparing the colour spectrums of veileds and panthers.
Whats wrong with pickup trucks anyway? The new F150 is gorgeous!

 

[laurie]

Btw, I didn't mean any disrespect to veileds when I used the pickup truck analogy--I have a veiled and she's amazing. I was just comparing the colour spectrums of veileds and panthers.
Whats wrong with pickup trucks anyway? The new F150 is gorgeous!

I all I can say is I bought my hubby a new Cheve Silverado for his birthday and the dumb thing cost a bloody mint! Now if velds were priced like trucks it would be great, cars do not cost any more that pick ups unless you want porsche.

Also amy one who has actually seen Luie & Chamille you tell you they are super colorful. They have brighter colors than a lot of panthers I have seen!!!!!

 

[jackscham]

I all I can say is I bought my hubby a new Cheve Silverado for his birthday and the dumb thing cost a bloody mint! Now if velds were priced like trucks it would be great, cars do not cost any more that pick ups unless you want porsche.

Also amy one who has actually seen Luie & Chamille you tell you they are super colorful. They have brighter colors than a lot of panthers I have seen!!!!!

You bought your husband a Silverado for his birthday!? Nice! Yes I"ve seen the pics of Luie and Chamille. They are nothing short of stunning. Truly gorgeous specimens.

 

[sandrachameleon]

The reason panthers are worth $300 and veileds $50 is because that is what people are willing to pay for them. Demand sets the price.....

and there has been far more supply of veileds than panthers.

I think soon panthers will start selling for less, because there will be more supply. Except for those with the best looking bloodlines, or less available colours - those will remain higher priced longer.

I think BOTH types are worth $300. But that's not relevant, cuz im not representative of the general market.