Wierd skin stains - problem ?

[panzner]

Hi guys,

i have a question abou my cham. Here is my chams info:

Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - Panther Chameleon - ambilobe, Male, about 22 months old, 18 months in my care
• Handling - Often - 4-5 times a week
• Feeding - He eats crickets, about 3-4 crickets a day, he eats from my hand (mostly), I give him crickets 6 days in a week, Crickets eat fresh vegetables, oatmeal, raw meat and also water gel for crickets
• Supplements - I gave him calcium and vitamins recommended by his parents breeder. He used them for many years without any problems. Almost every breeder in my coutry use the same vitamins and calcium combination. The week schedule - 2 x vitamins, 4 x calcium
• Watering - I have Exo terra Monsoon misting system, I also mist the cage extra 3-4 times a day. My cham drinks 1-2 times a week - I give him water drops (I haven´t seen him drinking alone for many weeks - he prefers to lick everything, but don´t drinking from leaves
• Fecal Description - Never been tested for parasites, he poo once in about 8-10 days, the poo is huge, but normal color and consistence.
• History - Nothing

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - I had Exo terra glass cage - 36x18x36
• Lighting - 2 x exo terra UVB 100 - 26W tropical bulb, 2 x 40 W spot light bulb, The lights turn on at 7 am, turn off at 6 pm - in winter
• Temperature - basking spot - about 86 F, middle - 77 F, floor - 73, at night - about 69-70 F
• Humidity - max about 75 - 80 after misting, min about 55 %
• Plants - I have only live plants - mostly hibiscus or some edible plants (don´t know names)
• Placement - The cage is in bedroom, nothing is near, the top of the cage is 4,9 feet high (1,5 meter)
• Location - Czech Republic, central Europe - that´s why I use glass cage - it will be hard to keep humidity and temperature in screen cage.


Current Problem
My cham has some wierd stains on skin on his back (see pics). He had it from December 2014, but now it looks different. I think, it should be some pigment problem but i wanted to ask here on forum what do you think about that.

 

[ChamMan7]

The last picture looks to be a burn of some kind.. idk if you mentioned but how far are your lights from the basking spot, also is there a chance your temps are wrong?

AND gut loading with raw meat is a HUGE issue... idk how long you have been doing this but you need to stop asap... raw meet contains amounts of animal protein that are not safe for chameleons. I don't know if there is some correlation with this and the discoloration, but if you have been gut loading with raw meat you should get a fecal done and get him to the vet. I don't see much chance of gout, but that is a risk when gut loading feeders with raw meat, as well..

 

[panzner]

Thanks for your reply.

You´re right with the raw meat issue, so I will stop to gut load crickets with raw meat.

I also think about the burning issue, but the lights in the cage (pic) are out of a cage, so he can´t be „direct“ burn by bulb or something. It´s interesting, that he has the wierd skin only on one side of his back (on his right side). The other side of his back is normally colored.

I think, that it should be some pigment/color „problem“, because when he was younger, he was more red, orange ect. Now, when he´s older, he´s more blue and green.

Sorry, but I don´t understand the thing: „is there a chance your temps are wrong?“ I don´t know exactly how far are the lights from basking spot, but it´s true, that he stays for example 5-6 hours a day on basking spot - he´s old and little bit lazy, but I think, that if he would be in too warm place, he would move away...

I can try to move the warming bulb little bit away and we´ll see...

 

[panzner]

I found some similar issue:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/discolored-spot-side-35565/

I hope that´s the same thing as in the post up - just some pigment issue, not some f..... tumor or something

 

[Carlton]

I also think about the burning issue, but the lights in the cage (pic) are out of a cage, so he can´t be „direct“ burn by bulb or something. It´s interesting, that he has the wierd skin only on one side of his back (on his right side). The other side of his back is normally colored.

I think, that it should be some pigment/color „problem“, because when he was younger, he was more red, orange ect. Now, when he´s older, he´s more blue and green.

Sorry, but I don´t understand the thing: „is there a chance your temps are wrong?“ I don´t know exactly how far are the lights from basking spot, but it´s true, that he stays for example 5-6 hours a day on basking spot - he´s old and little bit lazy, but I think, that if he would be in too warm place, he would move away...

I can try to move the warming bulb little bit away and we´ll see...

A cham can get a thermal burn even though it doesn't actually come in direct contact with a heat bulb. I also suspect this is a burn, as there seems to be a change in the coloration in your last pic. Part of the affected tissue is turning darker which may be a sign it has died. This is a very common place for a burn and we see it a lot.

Why do chams get burned under artificial lights? Well, a combination of reasons. We provide basking heat typically with an incandescent light bulb, but the problem is, this produces a rather narrowly-focused beam of intense heat as compared to outdoors in the sun. Ironically, chams don't have a lot of temp sensors in the upper parts of their body, so they often don't realize their skin is overheated until the damage is already done. They are basking to raise the temp of their internal organs, not their skin, and this takes a bit longer. In this warm up their skin can overheat before their body sensors tell them they have reached "operating temp", and they move out of the heat. And, especially in our winters when the rest of the cage or the room is significantly cooler than the basking spot, they may tend to sit directly in the heat longer. Burns happen not just because of the temperature, but the amount of time the skin is exposed to it.

Move the basking spot farther from the cage top and check the temp right at the basking perch. What type of basking bulb do you use? One option is to look for a halogen outdoor flood light type bulb which has a less-focused beam and it will create a larger more diffused basking area.

Why is the burn just on one side? Maybe he happened to spent more time with that side leaned toward the heat before moving away.

If you notice the skin peeling, the tissue turning darker grey or black, that will show the extent of the damage. It won't spread beyond the burn's border, but will self delineate and may eventually scab and fall off. He may lose some spikes. Hard to say how deep the damage went. To protect from secondary infection and help it heal, get some Silvadene burn ointment from a vet.

 

[panzner]

Thank you guys for reply.

Your post sounds logical...I will try what you say.

Can you please help me to find the good bulb? Is this what you mean :
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/halogen_basking_spot.php
or can you post me any bulb which will be better for my boy?

The other thing is, that I´m afraid, that I can´t get the silvadene in my country. Can I try something different, which is also used for burned skin - for example :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povidone-iodine
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthenol
or
something...

Thanks a lot

 

[panzner]

by the way whats the differences between halogen neodymium lamp and halogen lamp? Whats better neodymium or not?

 

[Carlton]

by the way whats the differences between halogen neodymium lamp and halogen lamp? Whats better neodymium or not?

I don't know if it matters that much. All your basking bulb needs to do is provide heat, so any incandescent general use light bulb will do that. I suggested a halogen bulb because the design of that type of outdoor floodlight will produce a wider less focused pattern of heat. The mineral inside the bulb may not matter at all.

Sorry I didn't realize you are not in the USA, so my brand suggestions wouldn't help all that much. The generic formulation for the burn ointment is silver sulfadiazine. I bet your vet has something very close.

 

[panzner]

Thanks for reply man,

Thats what I love on this forum - everyone helps as much as can...

I find the cream which is based on sulfadiazin silver - called ialugen plus in my county (1% cream so I think thats the same as recommended Silvadene.)

I also buy some 30w normal halogen bulb so I will do some experiment and try to find ideal combination. By the way - with 2 x 30w halogen bulbs I had about 86 F (30,3 Celsius) on heatest spot, about 75 -77 F (25 Celsius) in the middle. Is that enough high temperature?

Hope I'll finally get the sulfadiazin cream tomorrow so I'd like to ask how can I aplicate the cream on chams back? I mean may I do something with the dead skin or can you tell me some instructions?

Thanks a lot

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

would aim for 85-87 at the basking spot, 70 degrees at the bottom and 75ish in the middle.

 

[Carlton]

Thanks for reply man,

Thats what I love on this forum - everyone helps as much as can...

I find the cream which is based on sulfadiazin silver - called ialugen plus in my county (1% cream so I think thats the same as recommended Silvadene.)

I also buy some 30w normal halogen bulb so I will do some experiment and try to find ideal combination. By the way - with 2 x 30w halogen bulbs I had about 86 F (30,3 Celsius) on heatest spot, about 75 -77 F (25 Celsius) in the middle. Is that enough high temperature?

Hope I'll finally get the sulfadiazin cream tomorrow so I'd like to ask how can I aplicate the cream on chams back? I mean may I do something with the dead skin or can you tell me some instructions?

Thanks a lot

Putting cream on dead tissue won't do any good. But, its hard to tell which parts of the skin are dead until they scab over and turn dark grey or black. I think I would put a light coating of the cream all over the burned area at first. When you see dry black areas they may start peeling away on their own. Put the cream on newly exposed healthy pink tissue to protect it until it heals over. If you start seeing swelling or discharge on live tissue you may need to have a vet check for infection.

 

[panzner]

Hi guys,

I have a little update and also another question. Randy (thats my chams name) i doing well. He´s eating more then usually (about 6 crickets a day). I also switched the heating bulbs for 48 W halogen bulbs, which have wider heating area, but they aren´t that much heat as bulbs I used before.

I finally had a cream based on sulfadiazine silver and I apply it once a day on the „burned“ skin. And here is my question. For how long can I use the sulfadiazine silver cream (how many days?). Is there any danger connected with overdose with the silver which is a part of the cream?

The burned skin looks similar (I see very small orange spots on it, but I dont remember if they were there before I use the cream or not) - I have used the cream only 3 times yet and I know it´s gona be a long way to recover it.

Thanks for reply

 

[Carlton]

Hi guys,

I have a little update and also another question. Randy (thats my chams name) i doing well. He´s eating more then usually (about 6 crickets a day). I also switched the heating bulbs for 48 W halogen bulbs, which have wider heating area, but they aren´t that much heat as bulbs I used before.

I finally had a cream based on sulfadiazine silver and I apply it once a day on the „burned“ skin. And here is my question. For how long can I use the sulfadiazine silver cream (how many days?). Is there any danger connected with overdose with the silver which is a part of the cream?

The burned skin looks similar (I see very small orange spots on it, but I dont remember if they were there before I use the cream or not) - I have used the cream only 3 times yet and I know it´s gona be a long way to recover it.

Thanks for reply

I don't think you can overdose it if you put a small amount on once a day. You just want a thin layer for protection, not a thick coating. I think all you really can do is watch the discolored area for good scab formation that is a sign of healing. If any of it turns dark grey or black that part will eventually peel off and expose new pink tissue underneath. This is where you will want to use the cream too. I don't know how long to use it, but probably until you see a healthy scab that covers the burned area.

 

[NCrosby7]

Any suggestions on handling a Veild Cham.. Had him a week today and constantly hisses & puffs up when I go near him [emoji17]