Wild Caught Experiences

[griddle]

2 months ago I received 1 male and 1 female diego suarez. The male is thriving, the female I received was sickly from the start. I waited for them to accumulate then treated them both. The female was eating, drinking, but never looked healthy. I came home for lunch she looked fine, then came home after work she was hanging by her tail. I tried everything in my power to revive her, but she passed. I have never had wild caught's before, this experience is making me think twice since not only did I loose a chameleon which was the first for me, I also spent $300 which takes me awhile to earn. I want to know what others experience's are with WC's. Are they more likely to die? I really want to get a colony of Diego Suarez's going but they are not only hard to acquire, but most likely all I will be able to acquire will be WC. I would prefer to only work with captive bred. New to this forum, I learning so much from all of you. Just wanted to hear your experiences with WC and any recommendations.

 

[okiroo]

Wc's. esp females are likely to die. even if you do your best and try hard. i've lost 3 wc female spectrum and 1 male (he lived for a while and mabey died from old age. they dont live long anyways).


sadly this is how it will be most of the time. i put them in their own cages and fed. didnt look at them ect. still evenually died. one female even looked gr8.

 

[griddle]

The thing that get's me is that I have a partner that I breed chameleons with, he seems to hate me since I lost her. I have been killing myself thinking I should have done something more. I have CB sambavas, amilobes, ambanjas, and nose be's with no problems for three years.

 

[Montium]

If you are going to deal with wild caught, you will need to spend the money on vet visits/inspections. The big problem with them vs captive is stress and stress kills chams faster than anything short of euthanizing them. There is so much stress involved in exporting them that the heavily parasite loaded ones generally don't even make the trip. Then the ones with a lighter load slowly fail due to stress and their load exploding because of the failing health.

If you want fresh blood for breeding it's one way to go but you are much better off with CBB animals. Again imo

 

[griddle]

The only reason I even purchased the WC is that they were both available at a reptile store. I did all the treatments, worked with a reptile specialist vet and spoke with numerous breeders. Animals and reptiles are my life so loosing one no matter how long they have been a part of my family loosing one is still heartbreaking. Thanks for all your input.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I dont think hes disputing the benefits of going cb. Hes asking for other ppls experiences dealing with the wc issues.

In my personal experience I havent lost any wc males Ive purchased. They have all been fairly easy to clean up and get acclimatted to a caged existence. The only losses Ive had have been females. Of the wc females Ive bought I have lost 2 out of 5. So basically its a 50/50 chance of losing them during the acclimation & clean up period. One of the two a mitsio female I lost I had for at least 6 mos in my care and she cleaned up and was growing and almost of breeding age and then she just crashed on me in a matter of days. The other I lost shortly after treatment.

I advocate going cb whenever possible its so much easier on the keeper and your not taking a cham from nature. With some rare locales its not possible to go cb so you have to go wc if you want to work with them. You have to accept that going into a project your prob going to sustain losses and hopefully you will successfully acclimatte more than you lose.

As far as your friend being ticked you lost her. If he has any cham keeping exp then he's lost a cham or two. I dont care who you are, even the best most exp keepers have lost chams its the unfortunate part of the hobby. He needs to relax and understand that it sucks but its the chance you take when you buy wc chams.

Good luck finding another diego. They used to be a very popular locale and easy to acquire, but I havent seen very many in the last 5 yrs here in the US.
I dont know why that is?

 

[ISA my Veiled]

The only thing I really don't like about WC is that you don't know there age, it really makes it a risk considering you could be getting a 4 year old chameleon that could die of old age. Not to mention the disease or parasites that could be destroying them from the inside.

 

[griddle]

I dont think hes disputing the benefits of going cb. Hes asking for other ppls experiences dealing with the wc issues.

In my personal experience I havent lost any wc males Ive purchased. They have all been fairly easy to clean up and get acclimatted to a caged existence. The only losses Ive had have been females. Of the wc females Ive bought I have lost 2 out of 5. So basically its a 50/50 chance of losing them during the acclimation & clean up period. One of the two a mitsio female I lost I had for at least 6 mos in my care and she cleaned up and was growing and almost of breeding age and then she just crashed on me in a matter of days. The other I lost shortly after treatment.

I advocate going cb whenever possible its so much easier on the keeper and your not taking a cham from nature. With some rare locales its not possible to go cb so you have to go wc if you want to work with them. You have to accept that going into a project your prob going to sustain losses and hopefully you will successfully acclimatte more than you lose.

As far as your friend being ticked you lost her. If he has any cham keeping exp then he's lost a cham or two. I dont care who you are, even the best most exp keepers have lost chams its the unfortunate part of the hobby. He needs to relax and understand that it sucks but its the chance you take when you buy wc chams.

Good luck finding another diego. They used to be a very popular locale and easy to acquire, but I havent seen very many in the last 5 yrs here in the US.
I dont know why that is?

He's lost 2, they devastated him. I've had no problems with mine, until the WC. They are my babies, especially my red bar and sambava All healthy. To answer your question about why Diego's are so hard to find, from my extensive search to find them is pretty much desirability. I spoke with many breeders in the US and they all said they used to carry them but people were more interested in Amilobes and more colorful locales so they thought maintaining a colony was not worth the cost. In the UK you can still find them but the importing cost is to pricey for my pockets. I want to start a diego colony more for the preservation as well as an art project my fiance and I are working on. We are going to start a collection of paintings and drawing of different locales. I want to say thanks again everyone for their replies

 

[Trillian]

I'm so sorry you lost her, everyone here who has lost a chameleon understands how hard it is, however long they have been with you. You sought veterinary treatment and did all you could to get her through this.

I'm also sorry your fiance is having a tough time with this too. My other half does nothing towards looking after our animals, which some people might find unfair, but I know it's because he wouldn't be able to cope if something went wrong.

Whatever your next steps, this experience will make you a better chameleon keeper.

 

[griddle]

I'm so sorry you lost her, everyone here who has lost a chameleon understands how hard it is, however long they have been with you. You sought veterinary treatment and did all you could to get her through this.

I'm also sorry your fiance is having a tough time with this too. My other half does nothing towards looking after our animals, which some people might find unfair, but I know it's because he wouldn't be able to cope if something went wrong.

Whatever your next steps, this experience will make you a better chameleon keeper.

My fiance knows this was not my fault, she sees the hours, the devotion, and the research I do (I'm sure we all have spouses that see this). My partner whom I breed with was just counting on the Diego's. I am on a mission to get another diego, if WC I am going straight to a vet, and learning from this experience to do more.

 

[Supergirl]

We lost our WC Ambilobe female a few weeks ago after she laid 15 eggs. It was really sad because she was such a sweet girl... but I really feel that she was not happy in her indoor enclosure. Seemed to light up and come to life when she was outside, and I felt horribly guilty about it. She was an adult WC so it may have just been her time to go, we will never know. But I don't think we will ever get another WC female, too much heartache =\

 

[slim pik]

I have a W.C. pair,the male is doing fine,the female has laid a clutch for me but she's a reluctant breeder and a little thin despite my best efforts.Seems like the general consensus is females are more problematic than the males.

 

[ataraxia]

Some will disagree with the method but from my experiences. To give an animal that you receive that is in decent shape a chance. Is to treat and ask questions later. I think many fail within months due to thinking since there animal is eating and drinking... all is well. Treating the underlying issues we cant see is first along with proper care results in a higher success rate.

I can say i have had more wild caughts than i want to even admit. My next statement is based off of wild caughts we eventually get here in indiana. I am not fortunate enough to see animals directly off the boat to see the results from them but from the wild caughts i see regularly this is my experiences. With animals in decent health. My success rate with the method of giving just flat out great care without treatment is about 20% for keeping over 1-2 years. Treating first and giving great care brings that number up to 50-75%. My personal experiences and results lead me to say a wild caught should see a vet first before anything. If you play the safe card of thinking meds will push the animal into illness your playing with fire.

My experiences also with male to female being hardier than the other is the same. it is completely mixed. Some species ill end up with all females and other i will end up with all males.

Another thing we dont put in perspective is the age of the animal we receive. These could have been farmed animals used to breed and at the end of there life expectancy.

 

[djfishygillz]

my wc experience

I had one wc female that laid some beautiful eggs. She was first in someone else's care before me and they studded her and then sold her to me pregnant. I believe she was treated with panicure and that was it. She lived over two years with me but only laid two clutches. After the first two layings she never completely bounced back so I took it easy on her and made her just a cute little pet.

 

[Carlton]

There can be something wrong with a wc female that our usual parasite treatments just won't resolve. She could have had some other health problem that was magnified by a parasite load. Without a full necropsy with tissue analysis you'll never know. For example:

Being gravid when first caught, and the stress of capture and shipping caused death of ova followed by internal damage to ovaries or peritonitis.

Having some other pre-existing problem which made her more likely to be captured in the first place.

Simple age.

Refusing to adapt to captivity...hard to pin down the exact reason for decline.

Internal injury from rough handling by captors/shippers.

A load of maturing parasites that had already migrated into other organs and caused damage. Anti-parasitics may or may not be able to reach them if outside the gut, or the drugs killed off too many at once. Again, infection or peritonitis.

Some parasites are blood borne and not reachable or sensitive to the same meds.

 

[DanSB]

So when is it appropriate to go to the Vet? Let them hydrate and settle in for a week then take the trip or would it be advisable to go directly from the Fed Ex hub to the vet's office?

 

[ChamBust]

I have a wild caught female Jackson, had her for a solid 6 months now. A little over a month ago she gave birth to 21 babies! She's since recovered and is doing just fine. Lots of misting and feedings is key.

 

[cricketkilla]

The thing that get's me is that I have a partner that I breed chameleons with, he seems to hate me since I lost her. I have been killing myself thinking I should have done something more. I have CB sambavas, amilobes, ambanjas, and nose be's with no problems for three years.

Don't beat yourself up these things happen, especially with WC's. Good luck with your Diego Suarez group, exciting stuff man.

 

[griddle]

Sorry for not following to closely to this thread, I got laid off. Luckily I have a new job on monday but it was a panic attack. I have plans for my colony and the fear of loss off income took me away from the forums.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Some will disagree with the method but from my experiences. To give an animal that you receive that is in decent shape a chance. Is to treat and ask questions later. I think many fail within months due to thinking since there animal is eating and drinking... all is well. Treating the underlying issues we cant see is first along with proper care results in a higher success rate.

I can say i have had more wild caughts than i want to even admit. My next statement is based off of wild caughts we eventually get here in indiana. I am not fortunate enough to see animals directly off the boat to see the results from them but from the wild caughts i see regularly this is my experiences. With animals in decent health. My success rate with the method of giving just flat out great care without treatment is about 20% for keeping over 1-2 years. Treating first and giving great care brings that number up to 50-75%. My personal experiences and results lead me to say a wild caught should see a vet first before anything. If you play the safe card of thinking meds will push the animal into illness your playing with fire.

My experiences also with male to female being hardier than the other is the same. it is completely mixed. Some species ill end up with all females and other i will end up with all males.

Another thing we dont put in perspective is the age of the animal we receive. These could have been farmed animals used to breed and at the end of there life expectancy.

I concur. My best success with WC is go to the vets ASAP and treat for parasites immediately. Then place your WC animals in least stress filled environment as possible. Which includes for me while they settle in with being deparasitized and being in captivity (for panthers) to hydrate them and feed them thoroughly until they reach optimum conditions. With watering though some species respond negatively (humidity, temperatures etc.. should be kept in mind) if they are from arid regions (Fucifer pardalis compared to Fucifer oustaleti)to the extra water. Which when keepers are restoring their WC chameleons to optimum conditions should keep in mind.