With this budget, what setup would you get

[celeste_knitter]

You’re going to want roaches, besides silkworms, the’re the healthiest option, and there’s so many to choose from

I REALLY can't do roaches...like PUKE cannot do them. If I don't have to touch them, keep them, raise them...then maybe...but just the thought of them in my house...nope! I can any other feeder though.

 

[ERKleRose]

I REALLY can't do roaches...like PUKE cannot do them. If I don't have to touch them, keep them, raise them...then maybe...but just the thought of them in my house...nope! I can any other feeder though.

Use tweezers and keep them in a gasket sealed tall container, that’s what I do. Another trick is to call them by their common names but omit the roach part, it sounds so much better: red runners, dubias, etc.

 

[celeste_knitter]

Use tweezers and keep them in a gasket sealed tall container, that’s what I do. Another trick is to call them by their common names but omit the roach part, it sounds so much better: red runners, dubias, etc.

That's something to consider for the future - I will get started with what I know I can handle...then we will see.

 

[ERKleRose]

That's something to consider for the future - I will get started with what I know I can handle...then we will see.

I thought the same thing, but red runners don’t look like regular roaches, can’t climb or fly, and I hate to say it, but the nymphs are kind of cute...

 

[dshuld]

Awesome, you have no idea how much you've helped!

After realizing 7.5 inches is pretty small compared to the 24 inch cage I figured it would be much better overall if I were to go with the two 22's. This way I can get better coverage and deeper penetration.. right? Unless there's something I'm missing and there's a better option lol, in which case please let me know. (I'm still a little bit confused on whether the 6500k plant light is better or worse than the LED)

Once again, thank you so much!

Correct, two 22's will definitely get you better penetration with the additional bulb. Not to confuse you even more but, bulb selection can make a difference too though lol. The sunblaze comes with very blue heavy bulbs, not bad bulbs at all but last I looked them up not much info about them. For 6500k t5ho I prefer ge starcoats though ( F24W/T5/865/ECO for the 24" fixtures). They have crazy par numbers per the reefers despite lowish lumens and can be found insanely cheap online. However, before you buy two 22' let me read a bit more on the citizen cobs today/ tonight. From what I was seeing last night I think the 1818 is looking like a nice replacement. To put it in context, average output for a 2 ft 24w t5ho bulb is ~1750/ 2100 lumens, at 25w the 1818 cob is putting out double that and focusing it all generally speaking, down . http://ledgardener.com/comparison-lumen-output-common-wattages/#more-1412 So let me keep reading up on them as I have time to look at but I may rework all my cages with these too .

Hi there! So I would recommend the following:
-mistking misting system
-Dragonstrand keeper series enclosure with dragonledges and drainage pan (get an atrium if you want the biggest enclosure they’ve got lol but not necessary for a panther)
-a nice rack to set it all on
-Arcadia fixture and UVB bulb
-Solarmeter
-Temp Gun
-hygrometer

I agree with everything posted with the exception of the "arcadia" fixtures. Mistking will remain off my radar but that is for personal reasons and nothing that would cause me to not recommend them beyond it. As to the "arcadia" fixtures, singles, be it lyr or places like reptile basics, are rebranded sunblaze/ sun blaster products from everything I've seen and know of the lights themselves. Great products and worth it just not at lyr pricing for it. Sunblaze carries a 5 yr warranty, sun blaster carries a 1 yr warranty, both made by Sunlight Supply inc which is now part of Hawthorne Gardening. Biggest differences beyond warranty between the sun blaze supreme 21 and the sun blaster are reflector style and end caps to prevent the light spill the sun blaster suffers from on the supreme. The dual and quad tube fixtures as has been mentioned in the fb groups are rebranded odyssea fixtures that are not efficient at transferring light with the single reflector for all tubes. Todd has even posted the proof himself as to why those fixtures aren't worth the money for them on top of horribly short warranty period.

Coming from planted tanks, I've seen threads with issues from those fixtures that surprisingly isn't really mentioned in this hobby much. Early versions catching on fire, ballasts and timers going out to quickly... Sadly with the short warranty you're left buying more parts to fix it or scraping it and going with a better fixture afterwards. With as expensive as this hobby already is it just doesn't make sense to me to cheap out on the fixture when a better one can be had, in some cases for less, then the odyssea depending on where you get it. I do love the arcadia uvb bulbs though and whole heartedly agree with you on using them.

 

[celeste_knitter]

I agree with everything posted with the exception of the "arcadia" fixtures..

Translation, unless you REALLY know a lot about lighting, gardening, saltwater reefs...just do what @dshuld tells you to do regarding lights!

 

[dshuld]

Thanks - I know this is a long thread with lots of detours, but I've already decided on the DS clearside atrium (Bigger is better with a male panther!) & already have a solarmeter and temp gun. I use digital hygrometers/thermometers with my reptiles already & will buy a 2 pack for the chameleon. As for lights, the wonderful @dshuld is working on an LED option for me, otherwise I will go with a 4 light HO T5 growlight & UVB system with built in timers. I'm going to use a wire shelving unit - 1/2 height to set it on & my dad & I are working on a nifty drainage system. I will probably use a tension rod with some home sewn curtains for aesthetics. I have many talents now - plumbing, electrical, multi-animal husbandry, home ec, etc! I have an extensive plant list & will get a mixture of manzanita, vines, and local (non-ash because of the emerald ash bore beetle epidemic) wood branches to make plenty of roadways with a variation of the "living wall" for a backdrop.

For feeders I plan on using what I use for my crested geckos: crickets, hornworms, superwoms - all gutloaded using crested gecko powder (might find another base gutloader as this is $$$)
, spirulina & bee pollen as well as fresh veggies & oranges for moisture.
New food sources: silkworms - might try hatching from eggs as I have an incubator from raising parrots; BSFL
NO DUBIA - I cannot do roaches of any kind!

It's nice to summarize where we are so far!


Ok - feel free to hijack away...I can always steer us back!

What bedding are you using for the supers? I've been using this for a while now https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/manna-pro-select-series-sho-formula-rabbit-food-50-lb. Cheap, nutritious and lasts a long time. With my worm counts it's hard to know if I've grabbed one that's eaten their veggies recently or not so at least with this I feel a tiny bit more confident they offer some nutritional value vs other beddings .

I REALLY can't do roaches...like PUKE cannot do them. If I don't have to touch them, keep them, raise them...then maybe...but just the thought of them in my house...nope! I can any other feeder though.

I felt the same way before ordering my discoids. I'm not a fan of roaches at all but strangely they have become like all my other adopted babies, except some get fed off . I will admit that when I open their tub I talk to them just like I talk to my actual "pets" or my wife . The usual, "hello my little ones how are you today?" like they understand or can reply . I have not really looked into it much since I have a live colony but there is a company now selling prepackaged dead dubia. Won't act like a live roach would but may be worth a try to see if your cham will eat them before investing in a colony .

 

[celeste_knitter]

What bedding are you using for the supers? I've been using this for a while now https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/manna-pro-select-series-sho-formula-rabbit-food-50-lb. Cheap, nutritious and lasts a long time. With my worm counts it's hard to know if I've grabbed one that's eaten their veggies recently or not so at least with this I feel a tiny bit more confident they offer some nutritional value vs other beddings .

there is a company now selling prepackaged dead dubia. Won't act like a live roach would but may be worth a try to see if your cham will eat them before investing in a colony .

Since I only have 2 crested geckos at the moment, I've been keeping them in the bedding they came in - only buying 25 at a time & not using all of them. I mix in the gecko food powder and add veggies to it. I will obviously be expanding my feeder keeping when my cham arrives. I might get a small container of dubia and see how I do with those before investing in a whole colony setup.

 

[ERKleRose]

Since I only have 2 crested geckos at the moment, I've been keeping them in the bedding they came in - only buying 25 at a time & not using all of them. I mix in the gecko food powder and add veggies to it. I will obviously be expanding my feeder keeping when my cham arrives. I might get a small container of dubia and see how I do with those before investing in a whole colony setup.

For one chameleon, you won't need a colony of anything, there'll be too many extra feeders, just buy as you go

 

[celeste_knitter]

For one chameleon, you won't need a colony of anything, there'll be too many extra feeders, just buy as you go

Would I store them in the same way - just smaller sized containers?

 

[dshuld]

Translation, unless you REALLY know a lot about lighting, gardening, saltwater reefs...just do what @dshuld tells you to do regarding lights!

I wouldn't go that far at all. Healthy debate is always welcome, especially since tech changes all the time. I hadn't even given diy led a second thought until cyberlocc brought it up in Lola's thread and then again in a couple of others. I've been looking into since then but the vero 29 selection currently available isn't going to give a nice crisp white light cage that I prefer . From the looking around I did on the citizen cobs they seem to out perform the vero 29, have spectrums available we'd be looking for and are a few $ less then the vero though. So it is a promising one so far but want to read more on them . I am how ever definitely not in favor of the dual or quad "arcadia"/ odyssea fixtures .

 

[ERKleRose]

Would I store them in the same way - just smaller sized containers?

yes

 

[dshuld]

The cresties would probably go after the dubia too. My sister keeps a small colony in a 20L for her 3 leopards. You can some what control breeding by space given and temps kept at. Less space and lower temps usually slows them down a bit from what I recall. That being said, my discoid colony is kept at room temp (68/ 70 for me) and they still keep me with plenty of them but they are in 45 gallon sterilite tub.

 

[celeste_knitter]

I am how ever definitely not in favor of the dual or quad "arcadia"/ odyssea fixtures .

What do you think of something like this: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/48-h...re-with-led-mounting-system-aquatic-life.html
I'm not sure if the COB's could be put in it, as I barely understand lights at all, but the arcadia UVB could go in there & there are individual reflectors.

I'm also not sure how to mount/hang anything like this in my apartment since I can't go drilling holes in the ceiling, but I'm sure you have a solution to that too

 

[dshuld]

What do you think of something like this: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/48-h...re-with-led-mounting-system-aquatic-life.html
I'm not sure if the COB's could be put in it, as I barely understand lights at all, but the arcadia UVB could go in there & there are individual reflectors.

I'm also not sure how to mount/hang anything like this in my apartment since I can't go drilling holes in the ceiling, but I'm sure you have a solution to that too

Nice fixture but it doesn't come with the leds. They are separate purchases @$200+ each depending on brand and fixture chosen. I'll try to dig around and see if I can find a "modified" version with diy led cobs mounted to it though. As far as hanging, you can be very creative depending on how you want the overall look. Emt or wood can be used to make a support bracket to suspend the light from with out going into your ceiling.

 

[TheLetterAfterP(Q)]

Correct, two 22's will definitely get you better penetration with the additional bulb. Not to confuse you even more but, bulb selection can make a difference too though lol. The sunblaze comes with very blue heavy bulbs, not bad bulbs at all but last I looked them up not much info about them. For 6500k t5ho I prefer ge starcoats though ( F24W/T5/865/ECO for the 24" fixtures). They have crazy par numbers per the reefers despite lowish lumens and can be found insanely cheap online. However, before you buy two 22' let me read a bit more on the citizen cobs today/ tonight. From what I was seeing last night I think the 1818 is looking like a nice replacement. To put it in context, average output for a 2 ft 24w t5ho bulb is ~1750/ 2100 lumens, at 25w the 1818 cob is putting out double that and focusing it all generally speaking, down . http://ledgardener.com/comparison-lumen-output-common-wattages/#more-1412 So let me keep reading up on them as I have time to look at but I may rework all my cages with these too .

You're information is AMAZING and you're so helpfull! I'm learning so much, I honestly feel my head growing..

I honestly thought all bulbs were the same... although logically it makes no sense. I'll defidently take your recommendation and go with the ge starcoats (if I go down that route,) as for the sunblaze bulbs, could I use them to begin with (just so they're not wasted,) or is it not worth it?

The 1818 citizen cob is appealing to me, however all the pictures and videos I've seen of it confuse me on how I could integrate it into my cham cage.? Any extra info on this or pictures of a setup would be awesome!!! Thank you for expanding my knowledge.

 

[dshuld]

You're information is AMAZING and you're so helpfull! I'm learning so much, I honestly feel my head growing..

I honestly thought all bulbs were the same... although logically it makes no sense. I'll defidently take your recommendation and go with the ge starcoats (if I go down that route,) as for the sunblaze bulbs, could I use them to begin with (just so they're not wasted,) or is it not worth it?

The 1818 citizen cob is appealing to me, however all the pictures and videos I've seen of it confuse me on how I could integrate it into my cham cage.? Any extra info on this or pictures of a setup would be awesome!!! Thank you for expanding my knowledge.

Yes, they definitely are usable bulbs. They are just heavy on blue and I couldn't find much info on them for performance when I looked around 4ish year ago lol. From what I recall Geissmann tropic were the leader for par in 6500k then the ge starcoat. I think there was a 20 or 40 point difference between the two but don't remember exact numbers atm. The ge wins out purely from price point though with the "minimal" gain in performance considering the geisemann bulbs average $20 a bulb vs the $3/$4 of the ge last I saw.

This is "sketch 1" that I did for the vero for a rough idea. Basically you would use either 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 or 1 x 1 x 1/8 aluminum angle to make a frame to support the heatsinks. The frame would then be suspended above the enclosure like the t5ho fixtures would be. You can buy "commercial" frames that would give it "nicer" look similar to the aquatic life linked earlier but for the price angle aluminum can be painted black and look pretty decent.


For a "live shot" for color reference, this is the 1818 2700k vs 4000k. The 4000k actually looks pretty nice on these cobs all the way around. Nice spd in both blue and red and pic shows nice crisp white color. Doesn't get as deep into reds as I'd like but it seems to grow the "special" crops pretty nicely lol. The is not my pic of course and credit goes the member of the "special crop" site.

 

[celeste_knitter]

Yes, they definitely are usable bulbs. They are just heavy on blue and I couldn't find much info on them for performance when I looked around 4ish year ago lol. From what I recall Geissmann tropic were the leader for par in 6500k then the ge starcoat. I think there was a 20 or 40 point difference between the two but don't remember exact numbers atm. The ge wins out purely from price point though with the "minimal" gain in performance considering the geisemann bulbs average $20 a bulb vs the $3/$4 of the ge last I saw.

This is "sketch 1" that I did for the vero for a rough idea. Basically you would use either 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 or 1 x 1 x 1/8 aluminum angle to make a frame to support the heatsinks. The frame would then be suspended above the enclosure like the t5ho fixtures would be. You can buy "commercial" frames that would give it "nicer" look similar to the aquatic life linked earlier but for the price angle aluminum can be painted black and look pretty decent.
View attachment 215551

For a "live shot" for color reference, this is the 1818 2700k vs 4000k. The 4000k actually looks pretty nice on these cobs all the way around. Nice spd in both blue and red and pic shows nice crisp white color. Doesn't get as deep into reds as I'd like but it seems to grow the "special" crops pretty nicely lol. The is not my pic of course and credit goes the member of the "special crop" site.

View attachment 215559

Is this something that would work for my setup too? If so, I'm going to send to my dad to see if he can construct.

 

[dshuld]

Is this something that would work for my setup too? If so, I'm going to send to my dad to see if he can construct.

Yes, these would be for yours, and mine too I think. That 4000k one hits a sweet spot between spd and "visual" appearance. Good red and blue and crisper white at the same time sp don't really need to run different chips if you don't want to. This video may help your dad a bit deciding.

 

[dshuld]

I haven't watched more then a few seconds of the first one but these may help a little more to see if he's up to trying to do this for you. For our purposes it won't be a crossed pattern though lol.