Abscess please help!!

[ADotsalot]

So I noticed a bump at the base of my sweet veiled chameleon's tail last night, so I brought her to our only vet in the city that also treated exotic animals this afternoon. I was immedietly told, once I got there that they rarely ever treat exotics though. The vet looked at her and told me it was abscess and that it could kill her if he did not remove it. I understood and said it was okay to go ahead and remove it, even though there would not be any anaesthia. They came back a little while later and told me they couldn't remove it because it was so deep and if they went any deeper they would cut muscle tissue. So they gave me so antibiotics. My question is; Have any of you dealt or heard of cases where the abscess was not removed but treated with antibiotics. I really want to know if she has a chance at survival. I love her with all my heart and I want to know there's a chance for her. I can't really show you guys the bump because all that is there now is stiches and blood. I didn't think that I would need to take any pictures. I'm sorry. Please anyone who has any stories about abcess treated with antibiotics please help me out. I'm so worried and scared for her....

 

[kinyonga]

Generally all the "pus" had to be cleaned out of an abcess by the vet. If it's done properly and flushed and the chameleon is put on antibiotics the chameleon could recover completely with no further treatment or it could return later if it wasn't completely cleaned out. The chameleon can also wall off the infection sometimes. It's hard to know what will happen.

 

[ADotsalot]

Generally all the "pus" had to be cleaned out of an abcess by the vet. If it's done properly and flushed and the chameleon is put on antibiotics the chameleon could recover completely with no further treatment or it could return later if it wasn't completely cleaned out. The chameleon can also wall off the infection sometimes. It's hard to know what will happen.

So would only antibiotic treatment make for a low chance of survival...? She also hasn't been drinking anything for the past 5 days, I've been giving her apples and superworms to give her some mosture and I'm going to force water her later tonight, now that I have tiny syringes that the vet gave me. (If you think that's okay) I'm having to use them to give her the antibiotics. I asked the vet if her not drinking the water had anything to do with it. He never answered my question. He probably hasn't dealt with a lot of chameleons.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."So would only antibiotic treatment make for a low chance of survival...?" ...this is a hard question to answer because it depends on what the bacteria is and whether the vet got enough out. Did he say he was going to run a culture and sensitivity test on it?
Chameleon "pus" is like cottage cheese so antibiotics don't penetrate it so they don't kill it all off...that's why it needs to be removed and the "hole" flushed out. Even when that is done sometimes it can return depending partly on the bacteria involved and partly on how well it was able to be cleaned out and whether the chameleon walls it off.

Please post some photos of the area where the abcesses was...I just want to see where it was exactly and what it looks like now.sometimes this helps with figuring things out. I know I've asked you for photos in other threads and you haven't posted them. Is there a reason?


You said..."She also hasn't been drinking anything for the past 5 days, I've been giving her apples and superworms to give her some mosture and I'm going to force water her later tonight, now that I have tiny syringes that the vet gave me. (If you think that's okay)"...be very careful if you force-feed her water that you don't get it into her lungs. Don't squirt it in....ease it in a little at a time so she has time to swallow properly. Hydration is very important when a chameleon is on antibiotics since they are usually hard on the kidneys.

You said..."I'm having to use them to give her the antibiotics"...be careful not to get the antibiotics into her lungs too. What is the antibiotic?

You said.... "I asked the vet if her not drinking the water had anything to do with it. He never answered my question. He probably hasn't dealt with a lot of chameleons.".... I hope he has enough knowledge that he knew what he was doing with the " abcess".
Did you see the "pus" that came out?

 

[KeopiCat]

Have you tried putting her in the shower to stimulate drinking? Even if you have, I'd say it's worth another shot.

(In case you didn't know the proper set up is as follows: Place her on a plant on the shower (or tub) floor. Set the shower head up so it sprays against the wall, causing the plant which she sits on to not be directly sprayed with the water, but rather gently misted. Keep the temperature of what reaches between lukewarm and warm, you don't want her to be cold, but you also don't want her to get burnt from hot water. Remember to always supervise her!)

I'm not experienced enough to give you advice on the abscess, but I hope this helps a little. Best of luck with getting her better!

 

[Scottsquatch]

I had severe infections in my leg about 16 months ago and they couldn't aspirate the entire abscess. They got what they could and put me on oral antibiotics...im happy to say I survived. I'm not a reptile, but it worked on me so I'm guessing there is a good chance it will work. However, as Kiyonga said hydration is VERY important when on antibiotics so try to get him to drink. Again, be careful not to get any in his lungs.

 

[kinyonga]

Scottsquatch said..."I had severe infections in my leg about 16 months ago and they couldn't aspirate the entire abscess. They got what they could and put me on oral antibiotics...im happy to say I survived. I'm not a reptile, but it worked on me so I'm guessing there is a good chance it will work"....as I said above..."Chameleon "pus" is like cottage cheese so antibiotics don't penetrate it so they don't kill it all off"....so it's not quite like treating a human.

 

[ADotsalot]

You said..."So would only antibiotic treatment make for a low chance of survival...?" ...this is a hard question to answer because it depends on what the bacteria is and whether the vet got enough out. Did he say he was going to run a culture and sensitivity test on it?
Chameleon "pus" is like cottage cheese so antibiotics don't penetrate it so they don't kill it all off...that's why it needs to be removed and the "hole" flushed out. Even when that is done sometimes it can return depending partly on the bacteria involved and partly on how well it was able to be cleaned out and whether the chameleon walls it off.

Please post some photos of the area where the abcesses was...I just want to see where it was exactly and what it looks like now.sometimes this helps with figuring things out. I know I've asked you for photos in other threads and you haven't posted them. Is there a reason?


You said..."She also hasn't been drinking anything for the past 5 days, I've been giving her apples and superworms to give her some mosture and I'm going to force water her later tonight, now that I have tiny syringes that the vet gave me. (If you think that's okay)"...be very careful if you force-feed her water that you don't get it into her lungs. Don't squirt it in....ease it in a little at a time so she has time to swallow properly. Hydration is very important when a chameleon is on antibiotics since they are usually hard on the kidneys.

You said..."I'm having to use them to give her the antibiotics"...be careful not to get the antibiotics into her lungs too. What is the antibiotic?

You said.... "I asked the vet if her not drinking the water had anything to do with it. He never answered my question. He probably hasn't dealt with a lot of chameleons.".... I hope he has enough knowledge that he knew what he was doing with the " abcess".
Did you see the "pus" that came out?

I will post pictures of her in a little bit for sure. The vet did not take out any of the "pus" whatsoever though. It seemed to me he had very little knowledge of chameleons, as he would always avoid my questions about her behavior and didn't even know how to properly pick up a chameleon. I don't blame him entirely. Exotics are much harder to take care of. But I was hoping he'd have a little more knowledge about chameleons than me. He's the only vet in town that sees exotics so I'm trying to resolve this issue best I can before I think about going to another town. As for knowing what abscess was, he did explain that to me. But never told me what bacteria it was. I will definetly post pictures in a little bit. (Once I figure out how to do so...)

 

[ADotsalot]

Have you tried putting her in the shower to stimulate drinking? Even if you have, I'd say it's worth another shot.

(In case you didn't know the proper set up is as follows: Place her on a plant on the shower (or tub) floor. Set the shower head up so it sprays against the wall, causing the plant which she sits on to not be directly sprayed with the water, but rather gently misted. Keep the temperature of what reaches between lukewarm and warm, you don't want her to be cold, but you also don't want her to get burnt from hot water. Remember to always supervise her!)

I'm not experienced enough to give you advice on the abscess, but I hope this helps a little. Best of luck with getting her better!

Yes I have tried. She's very happy in the shower but she doesn't drink any water sadly. Thank you for the tip though and thank you very much for the best wishes!!!

 

[ADotsalot]

I had severe infections in my leg about 16 months ago and they couldn't aspirate the entire abscess. They got what they could and put me on oral antibiotics...im happy to say I survived. I'm not a reptile, but it worked on me so I'm guessing there is a good chance it will work. However, as Kiyonga said hydration is VERY important when on antibiotics so try to get him to drink. Again, be careful not to get any in his lungs.

I'm glad you ended up okay! I hope my baby can end up okay too!!

 

[ADotsalot]

You said..."So would only antibiotic treatment make for a low chance of survival...?" ...this is a hard question to answer because it depends on what the bacteria is and whether the vet got enough out. Did he say he was going to run a culture and sensitivity test on it?
Chameleon "pus" is like cottage cheese so antibiotics don't penetrate it so they don't kill it all off...that's why it needs to be removed and the "hole" flushed out. Even when that is done sometimes it can return depending partly on the bacteria involved and partly on how well it was able to be cleaned out and whether the chameleon walls it off.

Please post some photos of the area where the abcesses was...I just want to see where it was exactly and what it looks like now.sometimes this helps with figuring things out. I know I've asked you for photos in other threads and you haven't posted them. Is there a reason?


You said..."She also hasn't been drinking anything for the past 5 days, I've been giving her apples and superworms to give her some mosture and I'm going to force water her later tonight, now that I have tiny syringes that the vet gave me. (If you think that's okay)"...be very careful if you force-feed her water that you don't get it into her lungs. Don't squirt it in....ease it in a little at a time so she has time to swallow properly. Hydration is very important when a chameleon is on antibiotics since they are usually hard on the kidneys.

You said..."I'm having to use them to give her the antibiotics"...be careful not to get the antibiotics into her lungs too. What is the antibiotic?

You said.... "I asked the vet if her not drinking the water had anything to do with it. He never answered my question. He probably hasn't dealt with a lot of chameleons.".... I hope he has enough knowledge that he knew what he was doing with the " abcess".
Did you see the "pus" that came out?

I hope these are okay. Not the best photographer. Also she has started "sighing" she do a quick little huff. And she has done a sound that sounds similar to a human sigh once or twice. Does this have to do with stress. She just started the huff today, just started the sigh tonight.

 

[ADotsalot]

Oh and I posted pictures of her tail as it looks very strange to me. Is this because she is dehydrated? It doesn't look normal at all.

 

[kinyonga]

She looks gravid...do you have a proper place for her to lay eggs in her cage?

The spot where the vet cut her open I think is the same spot where they get an"egg" bulge when gravid...I hope that he/she didn't dig into her reproductive system or something. If it was an abcess (and I'm not sure since didn't see a photo of it) what came out if it if it wasn't pus? He likely couldn't tell what bacteria it was by just looking at it....he would have to do a culture and sensitivity test at a lab.

Do you have any photos of the "abcess" at all before the surgery?

You said she's been digging/huffing a bit...does she have her mouth open when she does it? Nose pointed upwards?
Can you post a photo of all of her please?

Did you try dripping water on the end of her nose at the rate of a drop or two per second until she drinks?

 

[jajeanpierre]

@ADotsalot Her tail looks like she is very dehydrated. Can you get oral fluids in when you give her meds?

I've had a lot of chameleons with abscesses. I have a large collection of wild caughts and they get really badly beat up during import. Some abscesses have been treated by vets, some not.

My vets have generally not cleaned out any abscesses. They treat the infection with antibiotics and hope the animal walls it off on their own. I've had two abscesses lanced and cleaned out because they were growing.

Yes, she can live a perfectly healthy life with an abscess deep in her body as long as she has successfully walled it off. I've found chameleons to be very resilient. Try to reduce any unnecessary stress as stress will supress the immune system.

 

[jajeanpierre]

She looks gravid...do you have a proper place for her to lay eggs in her cage?

The spot where the vet cut her open I think is the same spot where they get an"egg" bulge when gravid...I hope that he/she didn't dig into her reproductive system or something.

You know, this crossed my mind, too.

They can also get soft bulges that look like eggs but aren't. I suspect they are mature follicles.

 

[ADotsalot]

She looks gravid...do you have a proper place for her to lay eggs in her cage?

The spot where the vet cut her open I think is the same spot where they get an"egg" bulge when gravid...I hope that he/she didn't dig into her reproductive system or something. If it was an abcess (and I'm not sure since didn't see a photo of it) what came out if it if it wasn't pus? He likely couldn't tell what bacteria it was by just looking at it....he would have to do a culture and sensitivity test at a lab.

Do you have any photos of the "abcess" at all before the surgery?

You said she's been digging/huffing a bit...does she have her mouth open when she does it? Nose pointed upwards?
Can you post a photo of all of her please?

Did you try dripping water on the end of her nose at the rate of a drop or two per second until she drinks?

I don't think I have a place for her to lay eggs? Are they like chickens or something? I remember researching this a while back. I came to a conclusion that y'all were talking about fertilized egg laying whenever it was brought up on the forum. No pus came out because he said he couldn't. And I'm really sorry, I didn't take any pictures, I can try my best to explain it; It's a very large bump on what I would think is her hip bone. The skin on the bump was a lighter color, the same way our skin lights up with a bump underneath. I touched her bump and she gave no reaction to it, and she seemed to be moving fine but I had already noticed she had stoped climbing around her plant a few days before the bump appeared.

As for the "sighing and huffing" she'll huff when she moves(mouth closed nose not pointed) which I can only guess is a flinch of pain from the wound. She sighed when she was on my hand as we walked to the shower to try and get her to drink.
I've tried dripping, I've tried the shower, over tried sticking the tippy top of her snout into a small spoon of water, I've tried misting her plant more often... nothing's worked... so my last resort is force watering her...

Please tell me what pictures you would like

 

[ADotsalot]

@ADotsalot Her tail looks like she is very dehydrated. Can you get oral fluids in when you give her meds?

I've had a lot of chameleons with abscesses. I have a large collection of wild caughts and they get really badly beat up during import. Some abscesses have been treated by vets, some not.

My vets have generally not cleaned out any abscesses. They treat the infection with antibiotics and hope the animal walls it off on their own. I've had two abscesses lanced and cleaned out because they were growing.

Yes, she can live a perfectly healthy life with an abscess deep in her body as long as she has successfully walled it off. I've found chameleons to be very resilient. Try to reduce any unnecessary stress as stress will supress the immune system.

Oh that's really good to hear! I hope she can survive whatever this is!!! Do you know how I could reduce her stress? I've just been leaving her alone and letting her look out her window on her plant and letting her eat her favorite foods. (Apples)
Any other ideas would be wonderful!

 

[Nursemaia]

If you don't think you have a proper place for her to lay than you don't have a proper place for her to lay. She's going to lay regardless, it doesn't matter if they're fertilized or not.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/

 

[ADotsalot]

If you don't think you have a proper place for her to lay than you don't have a proper place for her to lay. She's going to lay regardless, it doesn't matter if they're fertilized or not.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/

Okay I have gotten a 9.5 inch pot and filled it with organic gardening soil. I've moistened it with filtered water and I've removed her regular plant (it's pretty big) and have put the pot of dirt with branches sticking out of it in her cage. I have covered all sides of her cage with a blanket to the best of my ability and have put the heater on in the corner of my room to 75 degrees and my humidifier on full blast. Do you know if it's too late???! She was walking around the bottom of her cage a lot maybe last week and the week before! What do I do if she has already become egg bound?!

 

[Nursemaia]

If she's egg bound she has to go the vet immediately