Admiral, There be Quads Here!

[Djturna4thakidz]

I think you are over simplifying things. This species is not as "easy" or as "hardy" as panthers or veiled as you previously mentioned. They do have difficulties and the main one I experienced was heat and humidity. I live in southern California, very similar to your climate and these factors were very tough to deal with. It took me about 5 years working with this species to see an improvement in their growth. I never bred but kept a number of individuals. I had a standalone AC unit, more costly than an window unit but worked much better. I had a sealed room and kept the temps in there pretty cold. Mid 60's during the day and into the 50's at night. This took a lot of time to dial in the system, not to mention the extra expense on the electricity bill. Like people have said, humidity at night is hard to achieve and I never really could get it exact in my climate, most likely a detriment. I believe you will encounter problems and the temps/humidity will be a main one. Good luck!

 

[Mike Fisher]

Yes, that's the person.

Do you have copies of his articles?

Thanks.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991009221207/http://deerfernfarms.com/quads.html

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Texas huh? Not impossible but its not going to be easy in the least. I also wouldn't write off Laurie's comment. As stated earlier, the importer is also selling retail. It is in his interests to sell animals locally.

Ever heard an employee at Petsmart or Petco sell an animal to new customers? They will pretty much tell you that not only is the animal you are buying will be easy to keep but that it drop golden eggs too! Before you know it you are buying two.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I think you are over simplifying things. This species is not as "easy" or as "hardy" as panthers or veiled as you previously mentioned. They do have difficulties and the main one I experienced was heat and humidity. I live in southern California, very similar to your climate and these factors were very tough to deal with. It took me about 5 years working with this species to see an improvement in their growth. I never bred but kept a number of individuals. I had a standalone AC unit, more costly than an window unit but worked much better. I had a sealed room and kept the temps in there pretty cold. Mid 60's during the day and into the 50's at night. This took a lot of time to dial in the system, not to mention the extra expense on the electricity bill. Like people have said, humidity at night is hard to achieve and I never really could get it exact in my climate, most likely a detriment. I believe you will encounter problems and the temps/humidity will be a main one. Good luck!

Thanks for your suggestions.

Please don't attribute those comments of "easy," "hardy," etc., to me. I am just repeating what I was told and putting it in front of people who have worked with the species a long time, basically asking for a dialogue on keeping the species. There have been a lot imported in the past two months, so they are going to pop up here on the forum with new owners who have little experience with chameleons--people like me only maybe they aren't asking as many questions or doing as much research about the species as I am.

Actually, our climates are not the same at all. People have this idea that Texas is dry and desert like. A lot of Texas is pretty darn humid. Los Angeles gets less than half the average rainfall I get. In the summer, hurricane season, I get the winds off the Gulf of Mexico a few hours drive away. I have local maples growing on my property. My grass stays green all year long without any extra watering.

When you say you had a stand-alone a/c unit, was that in addition to your central a/c? Was your stand-alone unit just for one room?

I really don't think humidity is as much of an issue as you do. I'm not in a desert. The local residents think it is very humid here. I don't because I've lived in the Caribbean and on the Red Sea (now THAT was humid!--moisture condenses on your bare skin when you walk outside).

 

[jajeanpierre]

Texas huh? Not impossible but its not going to be easy in the least. I also wouldn't write off Laurie's comment. As stated earlier, the importer is also selling retail. It is in his interests to sell animals locally.

Ever heard an employee at Petsmart or Petco sell an animal to new customers? They will pretty much tell you that not only is the animal you are buying will be easy to keep but that it drop golden eggs too! Before you know it you are buying two.

What is so special about Texas? Do you actually know anything about the climate in Texas or are you getting all your information from the Westerns filmed in the deserts outside Los Angeles or Italy.

Other than the heat in the summer, my climate is much better for keeping quads than Southern California's is.

 

[jajeanpierre]

http://web.archive.org/web/19991009221207/http://deerfernfarms.com/quads.html

Thank you.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

What is so special about Texas? Do you actually know anything about the climate in Texas or are you getting all your information from the Westerns filmed in the deserts outside Los Angeles or Italy.

Other than the heat in the summer, my climate is much better for keeping quads than Southern California's is.

I know quite a bit about Texas. However with that remark I won't comment further. Nor on any other posts you make. Good luck in the summer.

 

[Mike Fisher]

The most important thing I've learned over the years is to choose species suited to my local climate. It is much easier and cheaper. So that pretty much limits me to montanes. Now if I lived in a warmer climate, I'd rule out montanes, and go with species like Panthers, Veileds and Oustalets. The other thing I learned is that it is easier to heat than it is to cool. Especially when you try to get a room down to the at least the low 60's F (or lower) at night in the middle of a swampy summer off of the Gulf of Mexico. I don't even know if it is possible unless you make the whole room a refrigeration unit. If you can't give them at least a 10F cool down at night, they will go downhill fast.

And yes, I used to live on the Gulf of Mexico so I do know what that feels like.

I had the best breeding success when I wintered them cold. Down to 40F at nights. They'd go crazy in the spring time.

I do wish you luck. I know from experience that things always seem easier when you don't understand the problem fully.

 

[FlChamMom]

No wisdom on quads here, this is strictly cooling vs. humidity. Last year I moved from an island in North Florida to central Alabama, also roughly the same latitude to the greener areas of Texas. Alabama, like the rest of the South is not known as a dry and arid desert, however last summer I found it challenging to keep up humidity in the heat. Average temps stayed the same while my humidity levels decreased by 15% during the daytime from Florida with the same misting schedule. Even decreasing wattage on basking bulbs, if you are running multiple cages with plant bulbs and T5HO fixtures you have heat. I increased misting times, no problem during the day, but at night, I can get down to 12-17%. Factor in that with my veiled and panthers I am only having to cool to 68 at night. Not saying it can't be done, but without the consistent moisture of an area like Oregon or the cooler temps of an area like Montana it will be hard. I have lived in Texas (Waco, one of the green and humid areas).

 

[johnnyev]

The most important thing I've learned over the years is to choose species suited to my local climate. It is much easier and cheaper.

Very very true Mike & much the same when keeping fish too. Choose a species that likes your type of water. Makes like much easier.

Wish you the best of luck with them jeanpierre. Keep us updated.

 

[pamnsam94]

Primarily we both looked for the same thing. Gravid females, lol.

That made me laugh Mike. Following is the excerpt from that article that I really took to heart at the time and I remember trying to use the same criteria when selecting my own quads. However, I didn't have the luxury of getting to choose from large groups like you guys did.

We select our wild caughts and future breeding stock on the following criteria:

Males: First and foremost they must be calm animals. About 1/4 WC quads tend to be overly shy. In our experience, these acclimate poorly, make poor breeders and worse pets. Secondly they must have at least 4 distinct horns. Over 1/3 of all quads have only two notable horns. All else being equal, we then select for greater horn number (6 when available, still looking for a clean 8 horner! ). Still on horns, we select for the spacing of the horns. Three types are prevalent - straight out like in a montium (we avoid these like the plague); tightly packed together with minimal spacing, slightly upturned orientation; and our preference, horns steeply upturned which are separated by a scale and if really lucky, diverge from each other as close to perpendicular as possible (rare). Next we select for as tall a tail sailfin as possible. This is more variable in females than males, but differences are noticeable. Then we look for the color of the center bar on the casque. Many males are brown here but some tend more to orange (our preference). The density and length of the beard scales comes next. The larger (both in length and width) and denser packed the scales, the better. This is a very variable trait. Lastly we look at overall color. The more blues and teals the better. Color tends to be dingy in fresh imports so is a poor selection criteria. The size and density of the disk cells (flat plate like scales) are more easily rated and we select for the largest, most densely packed scales as possible. Please note an individual possessing all or even most of these traits is very rare. We rate each individual based on each of these traits and select the individuals which rate the best overall. Note most photos of quads in books are of what appear to be fresh imports and 2-horners at that. Quads are MUCH more colorful than those shown in the common chameleon handbooks!

Females: First and foremost for females is calmness again, followed by the same traits in males that can be applied to females as well (sailfin size, beard scales, disk cells, casque color ). We tend to avoid obviously gravid females as the stress of shipping while gravid significantly impacts their odds of successfully acclimating (about 1/3 die egg bound or soon after dumping eggs). Don't be tempted by thinking you might get "free eggs" by buying obviously gravid animals. It's not worth it.

The thing that impressed me the most about those criteria was that I would always specifically tell suppliers that I absolutely did not want "overly shy" quads. I had already experienced that "It doesn't matter how pretty an individual is if they won't thrive in captivity!". However, reading that really reinforced with me the idea of "If the individual frantically runs from us, we don't give it a second look - period."

Other than stressing good overall health, and "calmer" temperaments, I would sometimes mention that I wanted at least 4 noticeable horns if possible and as high of a dorsal crest as possible. Sometimes, I'm sure being so specific when I placed orders for quads over the phone or through email made suppliers not want to deal with me at all, but the ones that were more customer friendly would usually do their best to honor my requests. I got some pretty good quads that way when they knew how picky I was.

Perry

 

[Mike Fisher]

Yeah, if only we had the luxury of "pick and choose" today. We'll take what we can get these days. Even if they are half dead.