Angry Veiled

[Prestonean]

Like I mentioned in my first post below - I just received my Panther pair today, but a couple weeks ago, I had already purchased from the local pet store a large veiled - I think they said he is around a year old...

So far we've had a rough go. I held him in the store just fine, and I felt great about buying him. But then, probably the second time I was holding him at home, he took off up my arm and my shirt was too slick and he slipped off my shoulder and fell to the ground He was not happy about that as you can imagine.

The next time I took him out - a day or two later - he was still not happy, he definitely doesn't get into my hand, but after I let him hiss and charge at me a bit, I picked him under the arm pits. I know this is definitely not the way to start a relationship (or pick up your cham), but I've heard/read that Veileds can be territorial in their cage, and after you get them out they're ok. So we sat on the futon for a few minutes, but before long he pretty much hopped off of my arm and ran off the end of the futon. I grabbed him and sit him near the window on the ledge in my basement, and he was puffed up and bright yellow nearly the whole time. So I decided he better go back to his cage, and so I reached out to pick him up, and he lunged at me, but he had poor footing, so I dodged that, and grabbed him again under his arms. I shuffled him around to support him properly, and he got comfortable in my hand for a minute - I thought for a half second maybe I should hold him a bit longer and see if he'll mellow out.
Instead, I continued on the way back to his cage. As I was putting him back in, he was 90% off my hand, but still had his tail around my finger, and then whipped back around and bit me hard on the thumb for a good couple seconds - I tried not to overreact but let out a small yelp with a very small shake, and he basically released of his own accord.

So after that - he basically likes to hide in the far bottom corner of his cage, and if I reach my hand in there and just put a finger near him, he starts to go after me again with the hissing and biting. If he's up top when I come in to the room, he sees me and heads for the bottom corner again.

Thoughts? At this point, I'd settle for him just being happy in his cage and not having to hang out in the bottom corner, but if there is something else, or someONE else for him - then I'd like to do whatever is best for him for sure.

Here he is the day I brought him home:

 

[reptileguy112]

There isn't a problem with your chameleon, you need to stop touching it and give it some time to adapt to its new home. Every cham is different and this one is obviously not one that wants to be touched, you know that it is common for chameleons to not be social. I would recommend just leaving it alone for a week and do cup feeding and try to hand feed for awhile. Even if it looks like it will be okay try not to hold it for a week or so.

 

[reptileguy112]

So we sat on the futon for a few minutes, but before long he pretty much hopped off of my arm and ran off the end of the futon. I grabbed him and sit him near the window on the ledge in my basement, and he was puffed up and bright yellow nearly the whole time. So I decided he better go back to his cage, and so I reached out to pick him up, and he lunged at me, but he had poor footing, so I dodged that, and grabbed him again under his arms.

Never grab a chameleon. Also what do you mean by "someone" else.

 

[jannb]

I work with veileds and they can be terrified. Most also hate being caged. Do you have a safe area where you can set up a free range for him? A room where you can close the door that's free from other pets and children? I have a few links that you might find helpful.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/psychobunny/746-taming-chameleon.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/handling-veiled-chameleon-84201/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/handling-118335/

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thoughts? At this point, I'd settle for him just being happy in his cage and not having to hang out in the bottom corner, but if there is something else, or someONE else for him - then I'd like to do whatever is best for him for sure.

I am very disturbed by your comment above (my emphasis). You did absolutely everything wrong in handling your veiled. He responded exactly as expected. And now you are talking about rehoming him after having him for only a couple of weeks? In the meantime, you also bought a pair of tiny baby panthers. You haven't learned to handle one chameleon properly and now have bought two more.

The response your chameleon gave you was to be expected. I cannot emphasize that enough. Let me rewrite your interaction from your veiled's viewpoint.

Actors:
Chameleon-Eating Monster, 500 to 1000 times the size of The Chameleon
The Chameleon, small, defenseless, vulnerable

Scene 1:
The Chameleon is on Chameleon-Eating Monster's arm. Chameleon makes a run for his life, willing to risk leaping to his death or broken bones to escape The Monster. Monster snatches him up and somehow Chameleon is returned to his cage, miraculously still alive.

The Adrenal Medulla of the Chameleon produced a hormonal cascade at the first sign of threat: Adrenaline, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine and cortisol poured into the blood stream. Heart rate and blood pressure sky rocket, blood vessels constrict, blood is diverted away from digestive tract, kidney function slows.

The chameleon is now physiologically prepared to fight for its life.

It takes hours for The Chameleon to return physiologically to his pre-arousal (i.e.pre-near-death) state. The stress hormones continue to circulate. Cortiisol suppresses the iimmune system.

Scene 2:
A day or two later.
The Monster attempts to kill The Chameleon again, with repeated attacks. Chameleon miraculously manages to hold The Monster off for several minutes before he is finally captured. The Chameleon expects imminent death.

Somehow he doesn't die and miraculously manages to escape and makes a run for it, but The Monster catches him again and continues this protracted and torturous cat-and-mouse game.

Somehow, the Chameleon finds himself still alive and back in his cage with The Monster still trying to kill him. Trapped in the cage, Chameleon wheels and bites The Monster. The Monster violently shakes Chameleon off, possibly breaking teeth in the process.

The Chameleon hides in cover and once again thwarts The Chameleon-Eating Monster.

The stress hormones are again coursing through his blood stream and, again, it takes him hours to return to normal.

Scene 3:
Over the next few days, The Monster continues to hunt The Chameleon. Every time The Monster hunts The Chameleon, the Adrenal Medulla dumps its stress hormones into the blood stream to do their long-term damage.

That is what you did to your chameleon.

 

[Wowbango]

jajanpierre's Post may come across a little harsh... but it's right on point. Everything has to be done on their terms until they become comfortable around you. Some Chameleons simply do NOT tolerate handling and should be handled as little as possible. Sadly I think your chameleon's early experiences with you are going to paint a negative picture of you in his head and it may be difficult to overcome. That being said, having a Chameleon pet to just observe is perfectly fine. They're beautiful creatures.

 

[reptileguy112]

Where are you located. If you are in northern california area and you aren't capable for caring for them I can take the veiled or all of them off your hands. I have a couple nice reptibreezes empty right now. Get a bearded dragon or something that will love attention. Cockatoo? Water Dragon?

 

[Kayroxyoursox]

My veiled chameleon hates me too. He gets angry if I just put my hand in his cage to feed him. I was only taking him out to clean his cage but even that was really stressful for him so I set up my cage in a way that I don't have to take him out I can just slide the bottom out and clean it off. I would love for him to want to climb all over me but that's just not the way he is. I still think he's the most amazing animal and could sit and watch him for hours if I didn't have other things i have to do. You should just leave him alone for awhile.
It's funny the previous poster suggested a bearded dragon because that will be my next reptile purchase. They love to be held and will climb all over you.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Where are you located. If you are in northern california area and you aren't capable for caring for them I can take the veiled or all of them off your hands. I have a couple nice reptibreezes empty right now. Get a bearded dragon or something that will love attention. Cockatoo? Water Dragon?

Oh, please, do not recommend a parrot, especially a cockatoo. Parrots in general make horrible pets. They are fine and fun as babies until they grow up and go insane as adults. Captivity is really, really hard on parrots, even captive born and bred ones. Believe me, I know. I've owned parrots for many, many years and the amount of effort and money I invest to keep them sane is massive. Just to give you an example, I fly my parrots freely outside, not something most people are up to doing safely. They also live outside 24/7 weather permitting in aviaries that are a minimum of 20 feet long. Those aviaries aren't cheap.

 

[mvad]

OP, you absolutely asked for it when posting "angry veiled". Chameleons in general don't like or need to be handled. My male veiled about a year old will not tolerate being handled. I'm ok with this because I did the research before I puechased him. I didn't impulse buy him. His enclosure was set up long before I received him. Please take the advise of the experienced keepers on this forum. Chameleons are not a cheap pet to have. Every single member on here has made a mistake or two from time to time. Please don't give up on keeping your veiled, they are excellent chameleons.

 

[reptileguy112]

Oh, please, do not recommend a parrot, especially a cockatoo. Parrots in general make horrible pets. They are fine and fun as babies until they grow up and go insane as adults. Captivity is really, really hard on parrots, even captive born and bred ones. Believe me, I know. I've owned parrots for many, many years and the amount of effort and money I invest to keep them sane is massive. Just to give you an example, I fly my parrots freely outside, not something most people are up to doing safely. They also live outside 24/7 weather permitting in aviaries that are a minimum of 20 feet long. Those aviaries aren't cheap.

I think we are in a bit of a disagreement then. Parrots make wonderful pets and I am soon getting a new indian ringneck. Some parrots are mean and just because you got a couple grumpy ones doesn't mean they are bad pets. You could play with cockatoos for hours and they love to cuddle.

 

[reptileguy112]

And why do you say especially a cockatoo. Cockatoos and know for being one of the sweetest birds and if you are doing your research before you buy they are often labeled as social, smart, and cuddly. I would especially recommend a cockatoo, the only bad thing is dust.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I think we are in a bit of a disagreement then. Parrots make wonderful pets and I am soon getting a new indian ringneck. Some parrots are mean and just because you got a couple grumpy ones doesn't mean they are bad pets. You could play with cockatoos for hours and they love to cuddle.

How much experience have you had with parrots, especially adult, sexually mature parrots? And why are you getting a "new" Indian Ringneck? What happened to the "old" one?

Parrots are not "mean." Parrots that bite are having to resort to a sledge-hammer communication technique.

I don't have "grumpy" parrots. I have very well-adjusted parrots ranging in age from around 30 years old to the youngest that is 12. I currently have five parrots: two African Greys, one White Capped Pionus, one Scarlet Macaw and one Red Fronted Macaw. The macaws are housed in a 24 foot aviary and free fly outside regularly. The small parrots are housed in a 20 foot aviary. I've stopped free flying two as I don't want to deal with Coopers hawks. The 30-something year old Grey can barely fly after years in a tiny cage that was not big enough for a chameleon.

The 30-something year old African Grey came to me about 10 years ago because he was so unhappy he was self mutilating. He was ripping every feather out of his body that he could reach. He has damaged his feather follicles to the point he cannot grow feathers back. Stereotypic behaviors, of which self mutilation is one, are a response to chronic stress.

Parrots are a highly social creature. They live in pairs and/or flocks. Are you planning to keep a pair of Ringnecks? You are not a parrot and cannot replace a parrot for social interaction.

Yes, you can play with BABY cockatoos for hours. Cockatoos are one of the most problematic parrots in captivity. They are very loud and very intelligent. They are all incubator hatched so haven't been raised by their parents, which means they didn't get the proper emotional stimulation to grow up to be mentally healthy birds. Currently, all the wild caught pairs that have been feeding the baby cockatoo market are dying out. Incubator-hatched cockatoos do not know how to be a bird and there is a huge problem with the breeding males killing the females. Breeders have solved that little problem by cutting off their beaks.

Very few parrots do well in captivity. Most live horrible lives, if they live longer than a few years. If some of you on this forum think a lot of chameleons have a nasty life, it is nothing compared to the torture most parrots in the pet trade go through. Go speak to a rescue.

Here's a web site you might be interested in:
http://www.mytoos.com/behavior.shtml

 

[jajeanpierre]

And why do you say especially a cockatoo. Cockatoos and know for being one of the sweetest birds and if you are doing your research before you buy they are often labeled as social, smart, and cuddly. I would especially recommend a cockatoo, the only bad thing is dust.

And how many cockatoos do you have? For how long?

They are social and incredibly smart, but they need the bulk of their social interactions with another cockatoo. Cuddly? If you are cuddling an adult, you are likely stimulating it sexually, which is certainly not a healthy relationship a parrot should have with their keeper. It is also very frustrating and stressful for the bird. It also sets up the bird to be extremely aggressive towards other humans it views as its rivals for its mate.

 

[Prestonean]

Thanks for the feedback

Thanks much to Wowbango, Kayroxyoursox, and mvad for the constructive feedback.

Thanks also to jaanb - I've read through your a number of your posts prior to getting Duke. I was curious if you had a different link for your video - http://screameleons.com/how-to-handle-your-chameleon-properly/ - doesn't work anymore.

So I definitely agree with all the advice. I can see how it's normal for him to be afraid and that I'll just have to leave him be and hopefully in a couple more weeks he'll want to come out of the corner. Last night after I posted this original post, I came out of my office to find him basking - which I've barely seen him do - so like you've said - he most likely is hiding just when I come around. I think back to the pet store and I realize he didn't have any where to hide at all - so he couldn't.

reptileguy112 - By someONE else - I simply meant that if he was going to live in the bottom corner forever just because of me - then I'd be happy to have him live with someone else so that he can have a nicer life. Thanks for the offer but I'll stick it out and be patient like a good pet owner should.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thanks much to Wowbango, Kayroxyoursox, and mvad for the constructive feedback.

Thanks also to jaanb - I've read through your a number of your posts prior to getting Duke. I was curious if you had a different link for your video - http://screameleons.com/how-to-handle-your-chameleon-properly/ - doesn't work anymore.

So I definitely agree with all the advice. I can see how it's normal for him to be afraid and that I'll just have to leave him be and hopefully in a couple more weeks he'll want to come out of the corner. Last night after I posted this original post, I came out of my office to find him basking - which I've barely seen him do - so like you've said - he most likely is hiding just when I come around. I think back to the pet store and I realize he didn't have any where to hide at all - so he couldn't.

reptileguy112 - By someONE else - I simply meant that if he was going to live in the bottom corner forever just because of me - then I'd be happy to have him live with someone else so that he can have a nicer life. Thanks for the offer but I'll stick it out and be patient like a good pet owner should.

I think you'll find that his strong aversion to you will wane over time.

He might always be "difficult" to get out of a cage. You might be able to set up strategies to get him out. Sometimes they will get on a stick and you can move them that way. Sometimes they'll come out onto a plant and you can move the whole plant. Sometimes they will come out on their own and if you put something in front of them, they'll crawl right up on it. You have to worry that he'll bail and leap into the air if he gets frightened. It is a defensive strategy for all chameleons.

I recently bought 8 wild-caught quads. Four were adults. I've had to torture them repeatedly to medicate them for a bunch of different parasites. One medication regime meant I had to medicate them for five days in a row and then wait 10 days to repeat the whole process two more times--that's 15 near-death experiences in a month. The gravid female was particularly shy of me, even though I didn't start dealing with her parasite load until after she had laid her eggs. I never saw her. I would look every day just to see if she was still alive. She now will sit in full view near the screen even if I am peering right at her with my face inches away from hers. I can open the cage and she holds her ground. Sometimes she doesn't move when I put silkworms on her branch, other times she does. She is less in mortal terror of me than when she first came.

Try to avoid direct eye contact. Predators look directly at their prey. Try to avoid acting like a predator. Any handling you do, try to make it as quick as possible.

Good luck.

 

[reptileguy112]

Has your chameleon had any improvement?

 

[Carlton]

So I definitely agree with all the advice. I can see how it's normal for him to be afraid and that I'll just have to leave him be and hopefully in a couple more weeks he'll want to come out of the corner. Last night after I posted this original post, I came out of my office to find him basking - which I've barely seen him do - so like you've said - he most likely is hiding just when I come around. I think back to the pet store and I realize he didn't have any where to hide at all - so he couldn't.

Just an observation...if your veiled wasn't actually bred, raised, and owned by that pet shop I would almost bet that his prior owners didn't care for his attitude either...and put him up for sale! Either way, he is who he is now. I agree that time will let him settle down more so he's approachable. Give him lots of privacy so he can observe the daily routine from a secure retreat, keep your cage related chores to a schedule (chams like routine, predictability, not change), offer favorite feeders yourself so he associates you with good things. Even if you can only present them in a dish set in the cage while he watches it will still help. In the end, he may just be a surly guy who doesn't want much attention. Many chams mellow out a bit as they age. He's in his prime right now, full of his me-against-the-world attitude.

 

[Alexander1]

OP, you absolutely asked for it when posting "angry veiled". Chameleons in general don't like or need to be handled. My male veiled about a year old will not tolerate being handled. I'm ok with this because I did the research before I puechased him. I didn't impulse buy him. His enclosure was set up long before I received him. Please take the advise of the experienced keepers on this forum. Chameleons are not a cheap pet to have. Every single member on here has made a mistake or two from time to time. Please don't give up on keeping your veiled, they are excellent chameleons.

Exactly what I was going to say

 

[Swiftchameleon]

I was surprised when I got my chameleon because he was fine with being handled from the day I got him, but most aren't. Also, it would be a good idea to leave him alone for a few weeks. He is probably a bit stressed from being in a new home. But don't give up and get rid of him right away, he would be even more stressed if you put him in ANOTHER new home. Give him time.