bad veiled situation

[LBonawitz]

so a girl friend of mine, we'll call sally and her boyfriend we'll call joe don't live together, but joe was just given a veiled chameleon from this guy claiming to be the breeder. sally found out joe got a chameleon and called me to come see it. sally was really excited to show me since she knows how much of a chameleon nut i am.

i guess they have bought the chameleon nothing since the guy gave them the cage and all.

i didn't take a picture of the cage, i should have, but its a bird cage with 2 sticks in it and a small vine zip tied to one of the sticks. and this guy gave them pin head crickets for her to eat.

Her elbows are very rounded (MBD) her eyes are VERY sunken, and grip is soooo weak she falls in your hand with every step. something else is wrong with her eyes, she can't see to shoot at crickets

i took some pictures.

i saw her for about 20 minutes tried putting her in the shower on the small vine but she didn't even try to drink.

then i said F this. and went home to get REAL crickets for her to eat, forget those pin heads, calcium powder for joe to use when feeding her, more fake vines from my chams old cage and a spray bottle. i got her to eat 3 large crix and a meal worm and with the spray bottle she opened her mouth and let me spray water in. i hung the vines around her cage and sprayed her really well. i told joe to watch for orange urate, told him how to make a simple drip system by poking a hole in the bottom of a spastic container. then i told him she needs to go to the vet she keeps her eyes closed about 70% of the time. he asked how much that would cost, i said at least $150.00. and he looked at me and said ppfff, i got her for free. i wanted to choke him!

anyway here are some pics. i'm gonna be taking care of her from a distance since its my friends boyfriends, and i have no say on what to do with her. i wish i could stick her in my pocket and bring her home



her ankles have like balls on them (good view on the left side)

sunken eye

body shot

ankle

droopy eye?

i'm wondering the quickest way to get her feeling better? i packed her as full of water and (dusted)crickets today as she would allow. i just want to do more for her. however, i will not take her to the vet either unless he gives her to me, simply because i know he will not keep up good care of her and she'll need another vet visit in no time.

 

[Dunnigan]

Break in and steal her. No Joke.

 

[dondeb562]

oh poor thing. She looks to be gravid too.... How old is she?? If she is gravid, I dont think she would make it through the delivery in the condition she is in....

 

[djfunkshowkid]

IF they guy got her for free....ask him how much he wants for you to take her. If you cant afford to buy her...I am willing to donate $10 or $15 towards the fee via PayPal. I'll be more than happy to give you the money so you can take her home and bring her back. Im sure others on this site wouldnt mind a small donation to help a sick chameleon. We all love these creatures, and it hurts to see one so badly abused.

Let us know what he says, and how much he wants....Im sure we could all pull together to help, if you can't afford to.

 

[LBonawitz]

oh poor thing. She looks to be gravid too.... How old is she?? If she is gravid, I dont think she would make it through the delivery in the condition she is in....

well if she is gravid (i've never owned a female veiled) and the chance of her making it through the process is pretty slim, would it be wrong to see if she makes it and if so then i'll break in and steal her and take her to the vet? i'm 99.9% sure i couldn't afford her surgery to have the eggs removed. i'm sorry to say but my chameleons health comes first. i really do want to help her but not, sell my car and body to save her... like i would totaly do for my cham

i hope its not wrong to put me and mine before her in this situation.



oh and her age is not known

 

[dondeb562]

Yah the surgery can be pretty pricy. My vet quoted $250 and no quarantee she would maike it she needs a vet for calcium shot and other things. She could be showing signs of sunken eyes cause her body may already be egg bound. Usually the eyes are the first sign of a problem with the pregnancy. You vet at this point would want to try a calcium injection and a oxytocin injection.

 

[kinyonga]

Is there a place for her to lay eggs in the cage?

 

[questionbox]

this makes me want to cry.

 

[jannb]

This is so sad......she does look like she needs a laying bin and a good chameleon vet.

 

[AJA]

This may be an unpopular opinion but this is what I would do. Tell them the Truth.

"That chameleon is going to die unless it sees a vet (draw pictures for them if you have too ) give her to me and I will take her to the vet and see if I can turn things around. "

Not knowing your situation but you could offer them another cham at a later date, as long as they do some homework in their care. None of this "Pfft" attitude.


Second thought - more unpopular. The cham may be so far gone now she is probably suffering from kidney damage. You might be better off euthanizing her.

 

[LBonawitz]

i called "sally" the girlfriend of the guy that owns her and told her to put a laying bin in there. i had told her yesterday when i was over that veileds lay eggs and yada yada yada, the whole bit about that. i sent her a text this-morning for her to ask her boyfriend if he would give her to me. i already told them that people on this forums think that she wouldn't make it through the delivery of the eggs. i already called MY chams vet to see about possibly getting lower prices, and they can't. but my boyfriend is also willing to put money into her so she isn't suffering (i didn't even ask, he offered! thats a real man right there). So now i'm waiting for a reply from joe (sally's boyfriend).

i'd feel better just having her in my care so at least i know everything is being done that CAN be done. i'll force feed her water and help her eat. she wants to live you can tell, she shoots at crix, its just her aim is so far off. i have the patience to work with her, i know that joe doesn't.

keep your fingers crossed

 

[Pure]

This really shows just how much a Cham can take and still be ticking. I mean she isn't a little puny animal and I'm willing to bet she lived most of her life in that cage. I hope you can turn things around for her. I'd say she's earned it by now.

but my boyfriend is also willing to put money into her so she isn't suffering (i didn't even ask, he offered! thats a real man right there).

LOL! He is wise beyond his years. Most of us never learn things like this.

 

[LBonawitz]

so i guess i was really giving off the impression that either they take her to the vet or give up custody and i would take her to the vet. i showed up at joe's house unexpectedly to bring over a laying bin for her "just in case they didn't have one" (which they didn't). and i hand fed her another cricket, she wasn't interested in water though.

I told joe i would take her to the vet if he would give her to me, he said he gets paid on friday and then he'll call and set up an appointment.

of course i'm still gonna keep on him to make sure he takes care of her. but i'll keep ya'll updated on her situation.


hehehe i'm the girlfriends friend that you wish your girlfriend never knew

 

[dondeb562]

If she is eggbound he needs to realize sooner is better then later. The body reacts better to the drugs (if the vet feels that is an option at this point) better the sooner it is given then waiting. If he waits he may no other option then to pay a hefty price for surgical removal of the eggs. At this point thoguh I am not sure he will really have any other option. She probably needs fluids as well since hse looks pretty dehydrated

 

[SliK JiM]

It's so upsetting when you see a cham in this condition, yet, it's so heartening to know that even though it's not your cham, you're doing everything in your power to help! It's a real testament to this forum and the people who use it!

Do you have any idea of the sort of care she received before going to Joe? I have only seen blackening like that on the eye turret of a cham due to an overdose of UV. Are the eyes shut quite often?

She obviously needs water, and if she is soon to be laying eggs, calcium too. Can you get a hold of liquid calcium? It has to be administered orally which may be a problem, but it's a lot cheaper than a vet injection and you'll be able to do it yourself as soon as you get a hold of some. Also, you might want to try some sort of probiotic supplement. Reptile UV make one called Nutribac DF (it's the only one we can get in the UK) and I've heard that's been extremely beneficial in the rehabilitation of sick chameleons from various ailments. Just helps boost the chams natural defences so may be worth a shot!

I hope she gets better soon! Keep up the good work!

 

[LBonawitz]

It's so upsetting when you see a cham in this condition, yet, it's so heartening to know that even though it's not your cham, you're doing everything in your power to help! It's a real testament to this forum and the people who use it!

Do you have any idea of the sort of care she received before going to Joe? I have only seen blackening like that on the eye turret of a cham due to an overdose of UV. Are the eyes shut quite often?

She obviously needs water, and if she is soon to be laying eggs, calcium too. Can you get a hold of liquid calcium? It has to be administered orally which may be a problem, but it's a lot cheaper than a vet injection and you'll be able to do it yourself as soon as you get a hold of some. Also, you might want to try some sort of probiotic supplement. Reptile UV make one called Nutribac DF (it's the only one we can get in the UK) and I've heard that's been extremely beneficial in the rehabilitation of sick chameleons from various ailments. Just helps boost the chams natural defences so may be worth a shot!

I hope she gets better soon! Keep up the good work!

thanks! her eyes are almost always shut. that may be caused from UV? i think she is blind in her right eye, and the left one she can kind of see out of, enough to shoot at moving objects, it just takes her longer to focus with the one eye. so what kind of liquid calcium would i use? the stuff for humans, like calcium sandoz? and how much would i give her?

 

[PardalisGirl]

Calcium Glubionate.....

Calcium Glubionate is the stuff you want. It looks like Sandoz is one of the brands. I use Calci-Syrup. Same stuff different brand. It is made for humans like pregnant women. You can get it in a good drug store. There is lots of reptile dosing info for it out on the internet.

Keeping her well hydrated is the main thing. Her kidneys have to keep functioning. Eating is secondary to that. Some real sunshine would be very beneficial too. Twenty minutes of real sun is equal to eight of the fake stuff. The tongue issue is possibly related to MBD. It could be a vision thing but it often accompanies MBD. I have to say that I am somewhat encouraged by her appearance. The limbs are not totally warped. And she tries to eat. She does not look like a skeleton.

Great job in keeping at the owner. I was ready to chip in to the Paypal thing to help you buy him or pay the vet bill. Can you feel any eggs? If she is gravid in the stage for laying you should be able to feel them. If you can't feel anything she may be in the early stage (time to build her blood calcium level so she can lay normally) or the stress of illness is causing the coloration she has. Please keep us updated. She is lucky to have you on her side!

 

[LBonawitz]

ya i had read on a different thread before that you can feel the eggs, so i tried to feel any lumps in her but there was nothing. i felt by her back legs from her tummy side. i hope i was feeling in the right area

joe said she hasn't pooped since he's had her. that kind of worries me, its been 3 days. i'm going to bring more crickets over to her in about 30 minutes. she didn't eat at all with him so maybe she had nothing to poo well i'm gonna pack up some crix and calcium and stop by a drug store to check on that liquid calcium. any other ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.

oh how could i get her grip stronger? i'm so worried shes gonna fall.

oh one other thing. i've never owned a veiled so i don't know if its normal, but she vibrated like shes growling and at the same time her head twitches. what is that all about? she hissed once, that made me happy to see she still had some energy, but the vibrating twitchy thing happens all the time for no reason

 

[PardalisGirl]

More info.....

She may not have pooped because of being dehydrated. The extra hydration may help that along. The fact that she did not eat much is probably good if she did not drink enough. That means there won't be a big impaction situation in her. Keep her perch low. You don't want her to fall any great distance. She can easily get fractures.

In fact you can swap out her cage for a small plastic tote type container. It does not have to be big during the recovery phase. Get one of those reptile cage screens to fit over the top. Put some plastic fake foliage and some of the twisty vine on the bottom for drinking and perching on. I use this exact set up for Veiled babies. I can easily move them outside for real sun during the summer and the lighting and heating fit right on the screen top. Real sun can work wonders. If you don't want to change her cage, just make sure any perches are low to the ground. I'm thinking she may not be gravid or is in the early stages with what you say. That is good news!

 

[LBonawitz]

well i took some more pictures while i was over there just now. i couldn't find the liquid calcium. i only stopped at the small store on the way though. she didn't eat anymore crickets, but i got her to drink some water and i put her in a tub of shallow luke warm water (pic included) her eyes have puffed out a little bit more, i'm still not happy though. she is moving more. i'm also 100% sure her right eye is blind.

i took a picture of the cage. he has a 5.0 UVB tube light on top and a heat lamp (the other light is a standard house light). her only way of water is still just a spray bottle

she wants to kill me

i know shes thinking "when i get my strength back woman, you will DIE"

this is the laying bin i brought over for her (i've never owned a veiled, is this an okay size? ...she has no interest in it anyway

her eye, i think it looks a little better. maybe i'm just trying to see progress too hard.

the cage