battle of the chameleons??!?!!?!

I'm sure they are just bluffing.. call the cops on them if they do it, fighting animals is illegal.. like cock fights or dog fights.
 
DekuScrub said:
these arent veileds or panthers they obviously arent trying to to bite one another, theres even a point where the ones leg/foot goes in the others mouth and he backs his head out a little and closes his mouth. 1:08 is where it happens in the vid, hes obviously not interested in causing any real damage

theyre also build for bouts like this. like veileds and panthers are all show and if someone dosnt back down the fights could get messy but the jacksons are just locking in and doing what comes natural. i think the fight would have been over in like 15 seconds from someone getting flipped off a branch, if it had taken place on a branch.
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you seem to be all about fighting with all of your vs threads. :rolleyes: if you're so about fighting, then you go pick a fight. i can understand people fighting because both parties agree to fight. it's different when animals are forced to fight by a species that are supposed to know better.
 
mikadoflyer said:
you do realize that when it happens in the wild injuries can also happen right? what he's doing is not nature but man made chaos. the downside outweighs the positive if there even is any. you want to watch chameleons fight then watch videos that are already on youtube instead of creating another one yourself. thumbs down on the video
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Yeah injuries do happen but it is still part of their natural behaviour. No one is out in the wild stopping them. Yeah he put them in his back yard together but with a very large distance between, he didn't stick them right in front of each other. No I don't agree with fighting animals for sport but I do know its a natural thing to happen.
And when I say I liked watching the video its not cause i like watching animals fight but because it is interesting to see the natural behaviour and how they establish their dominance.
 
lilbug said:
Yeah injuries do happen but it is still part of their natural behaviour. No one is out in the wild stopping them. Yeah he put them in his back yard together but with a very large distance between, he didn't stick them right in front of each other. No I don't agree with fighting animals for sport but I do know its a natural thing to happen.
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he didn't stick them right in front of each other? he also didn't have a problem recording it and posting it right? you can't justify that as being natural activity between 2 animals that only follow instinct. it was controlled and the guy ovbiously meant for them to fight.
 
Hey guys, I'm glad to see that some of you enjoyed it, but sad that some of you didn't.

Some things to take into consideration: I didn't egg them on...I actually had them pretty far from each other, but once they spot each other, their natural instincts kick in and their quest for dominance begins. I liked the comment made about how it seems like they're not really trying to hurt each other, and after seeing this a few times, I have to agree with it. This isn't like cock fighting or dog fighting -- they're not out to kill each other -- therefore I don't see it as putting either of their lives at risk.

I also liked the comment about the psychological benefits, which I couldn't agree with more. I was a psychology major and it seems like mental well being revolves around simulating natural habitats. Cages aren't exactly "natural habitats" but it's the best we can do in raising our beloved Chams. Physical benefits as well, I mean it's good for them to get out and stretch their legs every once in a while.

FYI, the "flip" halfway through the vid was me breaking them up for a second when it seemed like one was about to bite the other...didn't want to deprive either of them from victory so I let 'em go at it until one of them rolled the other over, after which I declared Greemo the victor and felt like the point was made =)
 
mikadoflyer said:
he didn't stick them right in front of each other? he also didn't have a problem recording it and posting it right? you can't justify that as being natural activity between 2 animals that only follow instinct. it was controlled and the guy ovbiously meant for them to fight.
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If its wasn't natural instinct they wouldn't fight. They were even really fighting that aggressively. Like someone mentioned in another threat when the ones leg went in the others mouth he backed up he didn't bite. This was not a actual fight over a female or territory but more like males wrestling, which is also a natural occurrence in the wild and there are reasons why all species do that.
Like I said I don't agree with fighting them for sport or entertainment, my comment was towards the people saying they should fight cause they might get hurt. My point is that it is a natural thing for male animals to do, it isn't stopped in the wild. People bring animals into captivity and want to change their behaviour.
 
Oh, and there were no branches in the "fight" because I hadn't exactly planned on the shoving match, it just sorta happened. I have a few plants and tree's in the yard, but if they get too high it's hard to get them down...much easier to let 'em roam around in the grass for a bit to get some exercise and stretch their legs, then back into their cage they go.
 
ChamBust said:
Hey guys, I'm glad to see that some of you enjoyed it, but sad that some of you didn't.

Some things to take into consideration: I didn't egg them on...I actually had them pretty far from each other, but once they spot each other, their natural instincts kick in and their quest for dominance begins. I liked the comment made about how it seems like they're not really trying to hurt each other, and after seeing this a few times, I have to agree with it. This isn't like cock fighting or dog fighting -- they're not out to kill each other -- therefore I don't see it as putting either of their lives at risk.

I also liked the comment about the psychological benefits, which I couldn't agree with more. I was a psychology major and it seems like mental well being revolves around simulating natural habitats. Cages aren't exactly "natural habitats" but it's the best we can do in raising our beloved Chams. Physical benefits as well, I mean it's good for them to get out and stretch their legs every once in a while.

FYI, the "flip" halfway through the vid was me breaking them up for a second when it seemed like one was about to bite the other...didn't want to deprive either of them from victory so I let 'em go at it until one of them rolled the other over, after which I declared Greemo the victor and felt like the point was made =)
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I totally agree with you and don't think there is anything wrong with allowing them to behave naturally. All male animals wrestle, there are many learning benefits that come from it. It also helps males be better breeders cause of the hormones levels being raised during "sparing"
 
lilbug said:
If its wasn't natural instinct they wouldn't fight. They were even really fighting that aggressively. Like someone mentioned in another threat when the ones leg went in the others mouth he backed up he didn't bite. This was not a actual fight over a female or territory but more like males wrestling, which is also a natural occurrence in the wild and there are reasons why all species do that.
Like I said I don't agree with fighting them for sport or entertainment, my comment was towards the people saying they should fight cause they might get hurt. My point is that it is a natural thing for male animals to do, it isn't stopped in the wild. People bring animals into captivity and want to change their behaviour.
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i wasn't referring to their fighting as being unnatural. of course they will fight, they are naturally territorial animals. i was talking about both of them being purposely put in a situation where they would act on their instict which is to scrap. there was no reason for them to be together other than to record a "non lethal" chameleon fight video to be posted on youtube :rolleyes:
 
mikadoflyer said:
i wasn't referring to their fighting as being unnatural. of course they will fight, they are naturally territorial animals. i was talking about both of them being purposely put in a situation where they would act on their instict which is to scrap. there was no reason for them to be together other than to record a "non lethal" chameleon fight video to be posted on youtube :rolleyes:
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He let them both free in the back yard, he said himself he wasn't trying to make them fight. He took them out to get fresh air and exercise. He video taped them outside and they happened to see each other. I video tape mine all the time, just cause something happens while a video camera is on doesn't make it one purpose.
Yes they are territorial but the back yard is neutral ground which is why it wasn't a violent fight, at no point were they trying to hurt each other.
If you go by your point of view no male animals should ever be put together. Have you ever seen goats wrestle? looks just like those chameleons do.
I have been around all sorts of animals my whole life, from living on a farm, to spending my days at a friends zoo, to owning all sorts of animals myself. I research, I learn, I respect animals natural behaviours. I do not believe in changing animals to fit what people think they should be.
 
ChamBust said:
I've successfully raised Jacksons for some time now...never had one die on my watch. So that's fine if you disapprove, but I know what I'm doing.
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You breed them? Id love some jacksons but I can't find them anywhere in canada and no one will ship across the border, it really sucks.
 
lilbug said:
He let them both free in the back yard, he said himself he wasn't trying to make them fight. He took them out to get fresh air and exercise. He video taped them outside and they happened to see each other. I video tape mine all the time, just cause something happens while a video camera is on doesn't make it one purpose.
Yes they are territorial but the back yard is neutral ground which is why it wasn't a violent fight, at no point were they trying to hurt each other.
If you go by your point of view no male animals should ever be put together. Have you ever seen goats wrestle? looks just like those chameleons do.
I have been around all sorts of animals my whole life, from living on a farm, to spending my days at a friends zoo, to owning all sorts of animals myself. I research, I learn, I respect animals natural behaviours. I do not believe in changing animals to fit what people think they should be.
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obviously we think differently so i'll just end my argument by saying that comparing goats to chameleons isn't fair. goats are gregarious animals that live in groups. chameleons are generally not a community species. i'm not saying that male animals shouldn't be kept together, just the ones that have established themselves as solitary in nature.
 
lilbug said:
He let them both free in the back yard, he said himself he wasn't trying to make them fight. He took them out to get fresh air and exercise. He video taped them outside and they happened to see each other. I video tape mine all the time, just cause something happens while a video camera is on doesn't make it one purpose.
Yes they are territorial but the back yard is neutral ground which is why it wasn't a violent fight, at no point were they trying to hurt each other.
If you go by your point of view no male animals should ever be put together. Have you ever seen goats wrestle? looks just like those chameleons do.
I have been around all sorts of animals my whole life, from living on a farm, to spending my days at a friends zoo, to owning all sorts of animals myself. I research, I learn, I respect animals natural behaviours. I do not believe in changing animals to fit what people think they should be.
Click to expand...

Then go release your chams back into their natural habitat???

When you take on the responsibility of owning an animal, and keeping it in captivity, the life of that animal changes.
It has no choice but to be wherever you want it to be.
Whats the point in properly caring for an animal, just to have it joust another, get injured, get infected, and die?
Thats a real possibility here, and it is not conducive to proper husbandry.
The fact that the animal has no choice in the situation, makes it wrong.

So it happened on "accident"? I have had my chams much closer than that, with no issues. I promise you if I saw them going towards each other in an aggressive manner, as those do in the beginning of the video, I would DROP the camera, and make sure they never made contact.

There is NO excuse for filming such a thing outside of nature...
 
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