Baytril dilution

[Jono]

Just want to check my maths RE: diluting Baytril for Rex.
His damn mouth rot is back, it seems to relapse every 6 months now regardless of what I do
Same feeders and conditions for all my chams but Rex is the only one who seems to be sensitive to it.

I got my herp vet to fax the prescription to a local vet as I don't have the time to drive out there.

I've picked it up as well as syringes to dilute it.
The instructions are 10miligram / kilogram.

Rex is only 4g so as far as I can work out this would mean 0.04miligrams per dose (once a day for 10days).

The easiest thing would be to mix 10 doses = 0.4mg

I estimate I can get him to drink 0.1ml each time (approx. 2 drops)

So 10 doses would be 1ml

of which the ratio would need to be 0.996ml water to 0.004ml Baytril

Is this right? How the hell do I measure that?!
Multiple dilutions?

 

[FFSTRescue]

Is the Baytril 2.27% (22.7 mg/ml)?

 

[Carlton]

Just want to check my maths RE: diluting Baytril for Rex.
His damn mouth rot is back, it seems to relapse every 6 months now regardless of what I do
Same feeders and conditions for all my chams but Rex is the only one who seems to be sensitive to it.

I got my herp vet to fax the prescription to a local vet as I don't have the time to drive out there.

I've picked it up as well as syringes to dilute it.
The instructions are 10miligram / kilogram.

Rex is only 4g so as far as I can work out this would mean 0.04miligrams per dose (once a day for 10days).

The easiest thing would be to mix 10 doses = 0.4mg

I estimate I can get him to drink 0.1ml each time (approx. 2 drops)

So 10 doses would be 1ml

of which the ratio would need to be 0.996ml water to 0.004ml Baytril

Is this right? How the hell do I measure that?!
Multiple dilutions?

What species is this? What are you gutloading your feeders with? Is this a recurring temporal gland infection? If it keeps recurring possibly there is an abscess that hasn't been properly cleared out or disinfected somewhere. I have increased the percentage of vitamin C (more citrus fruits) in my feeder gutload which has helped prevent this in a jackson's.

 

[FFSTRescue]

I have increased the percentage of vitamin C (more citrus fruits) in my feeder gutload which has helped prevent this in a jackson's.

Thanks for the tip! I will definitely do that for my sternfeldi, as they are known for having frequent problems with stomatitis. I might even start giving my feeders Echinacea root as well

 

[chameleonneeds]

Hey Jono, I hope he gets better again. Its weird how it keeps coming back like that. Its your male damaranum or veiled im sure?

 

[kinyonga]

In most cases of mouth rot that I have heard about, the bacteria is pseudmonas (sp?)...and if the abcess is not cleaned out properly (and even when it is sometimes) the infection will come back. Its an opportunistic bacteria and found "everywhere".

 

[Jono]

Thanks and thanks

Yes it's my juvenile damaranum male (so in retrospect this is the 3rd time he has got mouth rot in the last 9months). The initial cause was a 'bad' batch of fruit flies. As you can't buy them here I cultured them from wild flies which were the source of the bacteria. They all eat a lot of wild insect anyway so its hard to tell.

His symptoms are bumps under the skin around the mouth which have been in a different location each time. He responds well to the Baytril and they reduce and dissapear completely without draining. The first time it occurred the vet cleaned out the biggest bump but it left a small scar while the other smaller bumps dissapeared without cleaning.

The 2nd time, I caught it early and the bumps were gone in under a week. For this reason and because the bumps are never in the same place I don't think lancing and cleaning is the right course of action. He is also so tiny it would be very difficult and stressful.

I'll start gut loading with more vitamin C again. I had a problem with gut loading citrus: it upset their stomachs, caused very runny stool which in turn caused an aversion to crickets which was VERY hard to break. I'll have a look around for another source of vit C.

As for the Baytril it was stock standard, the same they give to cats and dogs as far as I know. I've had a crazy busy few days so keep getting home after the vets are closed so I haven't been able to phone and check. All I have is the prescription which has the instructions to use 10mg for every 1kg.

Anyone got any ideas on how I could do the dilution and if I've got the numbers right? Would really like to get him on it tonight as sooner is better. If I mix up a large amount the correct ratio would be easier to achieve, which is fine even if I have to throw 99% of it away.

So my working are:

10 doses = 1ml = 0.996ml Water 0.004ml Baytril

100 doses = 10ml = 9.960ml Water 0.04ml Baytril

1000 doses = 100ml = 99.6ml Water 0.4ml Baytril

Divide those by 4 = 24.9ml water and 0.1ml Baytril

Which would be easy enough to mix precisely and given in 0.1ml doses (i.e. 2 drops each time)
So for a 4g chameleon the ratio of undiluted Baytril/Water would be 249/1

 

[Carlton]

Wow, that is strange. I haven't had the trouble you mentioned with citrus gutloading so this is good to know.

It makes me think the specific bacteria causing the infections is not overly sensitive to the Baytril. You may have to use a different drug or a combination. Can the vet get any of the abscess material to culture the bacteria? Maybe this would help select a better antibiotic.

 

[palmbob]

you say your baytril is 'stock standard'.. injectable, oral, pills, liquid? It comes in different forms. The standard injectable form is 2% (22 mg/ml). I treat chameleons with 5mg/kg, not 10.. higher doses can be a bit tough on these guys. And sometimes I treat them every other day, not even daily (particularly if they are not eating well or are fairly inactive). So if you have the injectable 2% solution, and you want to give a 4 gram lizard (you sure it's only 4 grams... that is one heck of a tiny lizard!) Baytril injectable, that would mean you would need to dilute it first since even the smallest amount will be too much for it. Your lizard (according to MY dose) should be getting about 0.02mg of baytril every 1-2 days. So if you dilute your baytril 10:1 (for example, add 1cc of baytril to 9cc of water... or to save on baytril, add 0.1 cc to 0.9cc of water), that will give you a concentration of 0.2%... or about 2mg/ml. So then you could give your lizard 0.01cc of that dilution orally daily to every other day. Does that make sense? If you have a different form of baytril, let me know. You sure he's only 4 grams? What sort of chameleon is this?