Brand new male Veiled. How can I help him de-stress?

[Charms]

Hi everyone, I adopted a 3-month-old male Veiled yesterday from the Repticon Expo in Southern California.
I built a 4-foot bioactive terrarium for him with Maiden's Hair ferns, Pothos plants, and an Umbrella plant. It's also got a few fake bushes for extra hiding.
The enclosure has isopods and earthworms, reptisoil, a network of branches and vines, a 60-watt heat bulb and a T5 UV tube lamp.
Basking temperature is 85F with 35% humidity during the day (except it hovers around 80% for a little while after misting sessions and slowly declines).
Light and heat are left on for 12 hours per day, and at night, all lamps off. Night temp is 67F at 45% humidity. Room is quiet, no pet traffic. No children. Just me and my wife.

This little guy was BRIGHT green in his enclosure with 5 other young males at the expo. He was the same color on the 30-minute drive home. But when we put him in his new home, he immediately went very dark green, and has remained there ever since.
We've misted him 3x a day, provided Dubia roaches and baby crickets in a cup, and given him a lot of quiet time to adjust. We believe he's eaten 4 or 5 crickets so far, but we can't be sure.
He's still mean-mugging us when we check on him for misting sessions (we don't touch him at all!) and he's still very dark.
Are we doing anything wrong, or is this just normal adjustment behavior?

By the way, at the expo, I got to meet this chameleon's parents, and they were HUGE. Biggest Veiled chameleons I've ever seen.
And they were both very stressed out, super dark green with bright aggressive stripes. This little guy definitely has the genetics to look like them when he's mad!

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and warmest welcomes! To start, getting used to a new enclosure/home takes time and really the best thing you can do is make sure his set up is correct and give him space. (which is hard for me, I use a camera to keep an eye on my chams without them knowing I am). Can you share a photo of his whole enclosure for me please?

One thing I would note is you want his basking temp to be 80 degrees, 85 is a little warm for him. The fake plant needs to be removed, you can attach it to the outside of his enclosure so you can still use it for coverage, but veileds tend to eat their plants and fake plants create impaction issues if eaten.

 

[MissSkittles]

Aww…baby! The bright colors he had were likely from stress. To be so dark as in the pic, he may be trying to better absorb uvb or heat. @elizaann2 beat me to advising a cooler basking temp. Have you seen him in his basking area? He might still be too shy to be in the open to bask and so is darker to absorb heat & uvb from farther than ideal. What is the distance between your uvb and basking area? Correct husbandry, providing him plenty of areas to take shade in and hide when he needs, lots of little chameleon branch roads to travel, lots of yummy bugs small enough for him to eat and giving him time to adjust to his new home and humans is the best way to help him be comfortable.

 

[Charms]

Aww…baby! The bright colors he had were likely from stress. To be so dark as in the pic, he may be trying to better absorb uvb or heat. @elizaann2 beat me to advising a cooler basking temp. Have you seen him in his basking area? He might still be too shy to be in the open to bask and so is darker to absorb heat & uvb from farther than ideal. What is the distance between your uvb and basking area? Correct husbandry, providing him plenty of areas to take shade in and hide when he needs, lots of little chameleon branch roads to travel, lots of yummy bugs small enough for him to eat and giving him time to adjust to his new home and humans is the best way to help him be comfortable.

I've moved the heat lamp just a little closer to his hiding spot, so we will see how that goes. The distance is 8 inches.

 

[Charms]

Hi everyone,

Update:

Charms is still very dark green / brown. He's been in his new enclosure for 2 days, and I haven't seen him eat or drink anything yet, but I understand they are pretty private about that at first. Also, no poops that I can find.

Charms hissed at me this morning very briefly when I misted the enclosure (a half-second hiss). He's been hiding mostly up near the top of the cage, but not climbing on the ceiling. The ambient temperature about 6 inches beneath the heat lamp is around 81F, so I wonder if he's too cold. The heat bulb I'm using is the Zoo Med Nightlight Red Reptile Bulb, 60 watts, 12 hours on and 12 hours off. The mesh top of the enclosure is quite thick and I think it blocks out a ton of light and heat from the lamps.

The UV light is the "free 5.0 UVB lamp included" in the Reptisun T5 HO. Please let me know if I should swap out either of these bulbs. The UV lamp seems somewhat dim and I'm not sure the plants or the chameleon are getting enough light.

I think I need to put more live plants and branches at the top area of the enclosure because right now he's only got two basking areas (circled in yellow).
I haven't determined whether he likes the heat lamp on the left or right side yet so I've tried both.
PLEASE NOTE: It looks like the heat bulb is right on top of the fake plant, but it isn't. It's just the perspective of the photograph.
The heat lamp is about 4 inches away from the plant, closer to the front of the cage than the plant is.
Charms sits about 4 inches away from it. He could climb on the roof to get closer, but he doesn't.

The chameleon's current color:

My cause for concern is that when we bought Charms from the reptile expo two days ago, he was BRIGHT green. Maybe that means he was too hot under the lamp they had him in, but man, he's WAY darker now that he's in our enclosure.

Should I buy a second heat lamp, or just replace my current heat bulb?

 

[MissSkittles]

You definitely need to get rid of the red light. Those are known to hurt sensitive chameleon/reptile eyes. If his basking temp is 81, that is perfect and he’s not too cold. The uvb should be fine if it was new. You do need more branches and live plants, but the concern is if he isn’t eating. He’s too young to go for very long without food. Baby and young chams have no resources to fall back on and can decline before you know it. I’m less worried about his color that I am his not eating. At 3 months old, he should be eating 20+ bugs daily. Are his feeders small enough? Anything larger than the space between his eyes is too large. Often we have to order the smaller feeders on line. I don’t worry too much about not seeing him drink as in the five years I’ve had one of mine, I’ve seen her drink only once. What is your enclosure sitting on? Is it on the floor or a table?

 

[Beman]

You are not going to want to hear this but the cage set up just is not where it needs to be. Red light is a big no for chameleons. All of the bamboo poles they can not grip on to and become very slippery. Then when they are this small you need much smaller diameter sticks. If you have to get fake vines then get the flukers brand. The net is not something that should never be used because they can not grip it properly but also they can get their nails caught up in it. Additionally these can grow bacteria. You need branches at the right levels including 8-9 inch distance from the bottom of that T5HO 5.0 bulb sitting on the screen to a branch directly below it. Tall plants to fill out the cage. Right now it is very exposed. Baby is a high stress situation but feeling exposed is going to add more. Then there is the glass... If you can see a clear reflection the cham can too. This can cause major stress especially as they mature. Best to put a solid color panel on the back and side if it is glass to reduce the reflections.

Are you sure you got a male?

 

[ERKleRose]

Congrats on getting your cham! Three other things, as everyone has covered everything else:
-The heat bulb (replace with a plain white incandescent light bulb) needs to be a minimum of 9”+ away from the basking branch, nothing closer (the plastic plant- needs to be replaced with a real veiled safe one- is too close at 4” away)
-When you’re feeding him, are you placing the crickets in a cup, a feeder run, or straight in the cage? I’d make or get a feeder run so he can see all the bugs moving but they can’t escape so you can keep track of the amount he eats. I’d also contact the breeder and ask what they were feeding and how in case it’s a simple as Charms not liking how and what he’s being fed now
-I’d also get fecal tests done since Charms was bought at an expo, especially since he wasn’t quarantined and placed directly in a bioactive set up.

 

[Charms]

You definitely need to get rid of the red light. Those are known to hurt sensitive chameleon/reptile eyes.

Which light should I replace it with? You name a specific one and I'll get it.
The feeder crickets are very small. I don't think they are the problem.
Enclosure is on a desk. He is six feet off the ground when he sits at the top of his enclosure.

"Are you sure you got a male?"

I asked the breeder twice. He guaranteed it was a male, and took it from the male enclosure. He had females in a separate enclosure.
I'm no expert so I don't know for sure.

Where can I get more branches? My pet store doesn't have any, Amazon doesn't have really thin long ones, and I keep reading I shouldn't get them from outside because they could have parasites. You tell me where to get them and I'll get them.

"The heat bulb (replace with a plain white incandescent light bulb)"

But... won't this not give off enough heat?

Fecal testing will occur very soon

 

[ERKleRose]

Which light should I replace it with? You name a specific one and I'll get it.

This is a good one (you might have to play around with the wattage, I’d start at 40 or 60 watt), as plain incandescent bulbs aren’t available in some states at hardware stores anymore: https://exo-terra.com/products/lighting/heat-lamps/daytime-heat-lamp-60w/
Also, I’d think about replacing the uvb fixture later on with one that spans the entire length of the enclosure (Arcadia’s ProT5 fixture with a 6% Arcadia bulb is the best of the best) or longer (if you’ll be placing the fixture diagonally)

But... won't this not give off enough heat?

I think you’re thinking of led bulbs. Old school bulbs (halogen, incandescent) from the hardware store give off heat, but led bulbs have been replacing them for energy efficiency

I asked the breeder twice. He guaranteed it was a male, and took it from the male enclosure. He had females in a separate enclosure.
I'm no expert so I don't know for sure.

Does he have tarsal spurs?

Where can I get more branches? My pet store doesn't have any, Amazon doesn't have really thin long ones, and I keep reading I shouldn't get them from outside because they could have parasites. You tell me where to get them and I'll get them.

You can order branches from some reptile supply stores onlines (I can link some if you want, just let me know the size of your cage), but you can cut down oak, birch, crepe myrtle, maple, etc branches (or any hardwood/non-sap producing, non-toxic tree) from pesticide-free areas, give it a really good scrub with dawn dish soap and hot water, rinse really well, and let it dry in the sun, and you’re good to go! You can use hydrogen peroxide, as well, but it really deteriorates the lifespan of the branch

Fecal testing will occur very soon

Awesome!

 

[Charms]

There's no way I can check for spurs; he's way too small and hidden in the enclosure. He won't come near me I feel like a failure of a cham owner!
I'm going to harvest some oak branches today and sanitize them, then rebuild the enclosure. I bought three more cham-safe plants to fill out the upper part of the enclosure.
What do you recommend for really tall plants to reach up to near the top of the cage?

 

[MissSkittles]

https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Is a great guide to safe plants. Much depends on what is available in your area at this time of year. I really like schefflera as a taller center plant if you can find one. Even if you use only pothos, fill up your enclosure with several of them.
No need to feel bad. If you saw how some of us (me!) started, you’d be dying. The important thing is that you’re here, you’re learning and will make the needed changes to give your baby its very best life.

 

[ERKleRose]

There's no way I can check for spurs; he's way too small and hidden in the enclosure. He won't come near me I feel like a failure of a cham owner!
I'm going to harvest some oak branches today and sanitize them, then rebuild the enclosure. I bought three more cham-safe plants to fill out the upper part of the enclosure.
What do you recommend for really tall plants to reach up to near the top of the cage?

As he settles in and you build trust, you can look. The care for either gender is the same right now, so no need to worry about that

You’re not a failure at all! You’re fully committed and reaching out for help, wanting to learn more; that’s all anyone can ask!

Great!

@MissSkittles has already posted the best link for that!

 

[Charms]

Okay folks, so tonight my wife and I carefully selected some oak branches from a safe area in the woods that doesn't get sprayed. We rinsed them down with those hose outside three times, then gave them a bath in the bath tub with very mild handsoap. Now, we are baking them at 250F for 1 hour.

We are rebuilding the enclosure without the bamboo so the chameleon is able to grip the little twigs better and get around the enclosure.
We also bought 2 more pothos plants and 1 other from the list of safe plants. We intend to populate the upper area of the cage with better foliage and branches.

We noticed something interesting. Tonight we removed the chameleon from his enclosure and my wife held him while I did some work on the cage. He turned bright green while she held him, and crawled all over her:

However, a minute after we put him back in his enclosure, he turned dark green again, just like before:

• I thought dark green meant stressed, and bright green meant happy. Maybe I've got these reversed? Or is it the case that we just have a really social chameleon who loves being held? We kept him in the same room as his enclosure, so the temperature didn't change. It's pretty warm in here. I can't imagine he changed colors just because of a temperature difference.
• Does he look dehydrated or undernourished for a 3-month old? We haven't seen him eat or drink.
• Are the dark-colored eyebrow lines a sign of anything bad, or is that just his pigmentation?

 

[ERKleRose]

I have no idea if mild hand soap is okay, so hopefully someone else can chime in on that, but did you rinse the branches extremely well after the bath before you baked them?

I think he’s so dark because he needs more plant cover throughout the cage he can fully hide behind

Could you post a pic of the cage and its surrounding area so we can see what’s near it?

With dehydration you look at the urate, and he needs to get eating soon because he is so small

 

[Charms]

I have no idea if mild hand soap is okay, so hopefully someone else can chime in on that, but did you rinse the branches extremely well after the bath before you baked them?

I think he’s so dark because he needs more plant cover throughout the cage he can fully hide behind

Could you post a pic of the cage and its surrounding area so we can see what’s near it?

With dehydration you look at the urate, and he needs to get eating soon because he is so small

Unfortunately I can't even find any droppings yet. He had 1 solid poop the other day but no urates at all that I could find. The enclosure has a lot of plants so the dropping was hard to find.
If you scroll up higher in this thread, you can see photos of the enclosure.
We are making a lot of changes to the enclosure today.

 

[ERKleRose]

The urate comes out with the poop, so it should be near that. It might not be white, it could also be partially or fully yellow or orange. This is another reason quarantine cages are good. Could you take out the bioactive layers and save it to the side (that way it stays alive and keeps running) until Charms gets a clean bill of health? If he has no parasites you can put it all back in after!

If you could post a larger frame photo so we can see what’s near the exterior of the cage, that’d be very helpful!

Great! Keep us updated!

 

[Beman]

Ok let me help you out understanding colors...

Dark can mean soaking up warmth and even pissed with extreme situations as they can go almost black. So it can be a stress indicator if they are not basking and actively staying dark.

Now there are resting colors which are duller greens and then there are bright colors which is almost always a response to stimuli. Can be considered their fired up colors. Can also happen with stress like them seeing something or another chameleon. Maybe even a tshirt color they are not please with.


These are resting colors three different males. Beman, Bentley translucent, and Bane. Resting colors are dull greens typically.

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• Beman
• Mar 8, 2021

12-14-20

• Beman
• Dec 14, 2020
• 1

FIRST time climbing out on to my hand without any food. YAYYYYYY still a little fire ball of...

12-9-20

• Beman
• Dec 9, 2020
• 3

Shed is coming! 9 months 115 grams

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These are fired up colors on the boys. Note arms are saluting, gulular area is puffed and extended, sitting high up off a branch and almost always you will see a full tail curl. But also during these times they will show their most bright and vibrant colors.

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• Beman
• Mar 16, 2021
• 1

Ahhhhhh I see Beman on your hand! You're cheating on me mom!!!!

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• Beman
• Dec 5, 2020
• male veiled chameleon

Almost 9 months old

 

[Charms]

Damn, those are some gorgeous chameleons. Thanks for the photos.

Big update!
We completely reassembled Charms' enclosure per the recommendations in this forum. We removed the hammock, all fake plants but one (which he likes to hide in), and most of the bamboo. We also put a huge dracaena marginata in there to give him more cover near the top of the enclosure, along with more pothos plants and more branches near the top for basking:

Charms is no longer super dark and pissed off in his enclosure. He's been wandering around a lot, drinking, and nailing medium-sized crickets. He's comfortable enough now that he's eating right in front of me!

His color seems a lot more relaxed most of the time too.

One thing that is strange is I noticed him digging a lot on the first day that we reassembled the enclosure:

I know everyone will ask, "are you sure that's a male?" but I cannot really tell because we haven't held him much yet. The next time we take him out to clean the enclosure, I'll do a spur check. But the breeder was 100% confident it was a male (I asked him three times to be sure). So Charms might have been digging up a bug he saw burrowing in the soil (isopods, earthworms, and a few wayward crickets are in here with him), or maybe he was just checking the place out? Looking for an escape, maybe?

My next question is, folks keep telling me to replace the red heat bulb. What do you recommend? If someone could post an amazon link I'd appreciate it.

 

[Beman]

Damn, those are some gorgeous chameleons. Thanks for the photos.

Big update!
We completely reassembled Charms' enclosure per the recommendations in this forum. We removed the hammock, all fake plants but one (which he likes to hide in), and most of the bamboo. We also put a huge dracaena marginata in there to give him more cover near the top of the enclosure, along with more pothos plants and more branches near the top for basking:
View attachment 360578

Charms is no longer super dark and pissed off in his enclosure. He's been wandering around a lot, drinking, and nailing medium-sized crickets. He's comfortable enough now that he's eating right in front of me!
View attachment 360579
His color seems a lot more relaxed most of the time too.

One thing that is strange is I noticed him digging a lot on the first day that we reassembled the enclosure:
View attachment 360580

I know everyone will ask, "are you sure that's a male?" but I cannot really tell because we haven't held him much yet. The next time we take him out to clean the enclosure, I'll do a spur check. But the breeder was 100% confident it was a male (I asked him three times to be sure). So Charms might have been digging up a bug he saw burrowing in the soil (isopods, earthworms, and a few wayward crickets are in here with him), or maybe he was just checking the place out? Looking for an escape, maybe?

My next question is, folks keep telling me to replace the red heat bulb. What do you recommend? If someone could post an amazon link I'd appreciate it.

So yeah you have to replace the red bulb. It is very bad on their eyes. All you want is an incandescent white bulb about a 60 watt for the distance you have. This can be a regular household bulb as long as it is not the LED type. If you want a reptile one you can buy these. I use these and they burn out pretty rarely.