chameleon not using back legs

[ChamoNate]

hello all, my jacksons cham is 3 and a half years old and he has recently developed bumps all over his body, i mean everywhere, on his tail his back has hands...everywhere, i took him to the vet and the vet honestly didnt know what it was and gave him an antibiotic shot, my jacksons has now lost the use of his back legs, he moves them but doesnt use them to grip anymore, he is very lethargic and will not eat or drink, he does not appear to have mbd and i give him uvb and calcium, only d3 he gets is from the uvb because i was told by the cham raiser that sent him to me not to give them extra d3 because jacksons do not do well with it, i just dont know what to do or what is wrong amd would appreciate any help i can get

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Can you post some pics? I can’t help with Jackson’s but someone else can.

 

[skywes13]

Hi, so sorry your cham isn't feeling well. Can you show us some pictures of him? Specifically one showing his his ankles and joints, just to rule out gout. As well as a picture of his enclosure?

Also, please copy and paste & fill out this form, so we can get an idea of what the issue might be:
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
Photos can be very helpful.

 

[ChamoNate]

Your Chameleon - male jacksons chameleon, 3 and a half years old, have had him since juvenile
Handling - He is never handled, spends almost everyday in cage because does not like being handled
Feeding - eat crickets every other day, crickets eat a calcium powder food.
Supplements - crickets eat a flukers calcium food
Watering - mist king set to run twice a day for about 5 minutes each time
Fecal Description - feces has looked regular but no longer seems to be defecating because hes not eating now, also never been tested for parasites
History - born from some reputable raiser in florida thats all i know

Cage Info:
Cage Type - wire mesh on the front and top of enclosure, sides are made of white posterboard
Lighting - light runs all day and is off at night, tropical 13 watt uvb bulb and halogen uva bulb
Temperature - i dont know the actual temp ranges i dont have a temp guage in the enclosure
Humidity - i dont measure humidity anymore the guage quit but it was running within the range last i had one
Plants - one scheflera plant inside enclosure
Placement - cage is located in back room and window shines some light in.
Location - central Arkansas

Current Problem - not eating or drinking, not using back legs, losing grip in hands


i will admit that i took on the task of a chameleon with intentions of taking great care of him, i do everything to my knowledge to prevent mbd but i havent been the best on keeping up with the enclosure but i dont know of anything that i did wrong that couldve caused this, just dont want him to suffer needlessly and need help to tell my vet in case he isnt sure whats wrong, no good herp vets out here, will post photos soon

 

[Ambilobe123]

Your Chameleon - male jacksons chameleon, 3 and a half years old, have had him since juvenile
Handling - He is never handled, spends almost everyday in cage because does not like being handled
Feeding - eat crickets every other day, crickets eat a calcium powder food.
Supplements - crickets eat a flukers calcium food
Watering - mist king set to run twice a day for about 5 minutes each time
Fecal Description - feces has looked regular but no longer seems to be defecating because hes not eating now, also never been tested for parasites
History - born from some reputable raiser in florida thats all i know

Cage Info:
Cage Type - wire mesh on the front and top of enclosure, sides are made of white posterboard
Lighting - light runs all day and is off at night, tropical 13 watt uvb bulb and halogen uva bulb
Temperature - i dont know the actual temp ranges i dont have a temp guage in the enclosure
Humidity - i dont measure humidity anymore the guage quit but it was running within the range last i had one
Plants - one scheflera plant inside enclosure
Placement - cage is located in back room and window shines some light in.
Location - central Arkansas

Current Problem - not eating or drinking, not using back legs, losing grip in hands


i will admit that i took on the task of a chameleon with intentions of taking great care of him, i do everything to my knowledge to prevent mbd but i havent been the best on keeping up with the enclosure but i dont know of anything that i did wrong that couldve caused this, just dont want him to suffer needlessly and need help to tell my vet in case he isnt sure whats wrong, no good herp vets out here, will post photos soon

How big is your cage? Do you dust your crickets with calcium? A coil uvb bulb will not supply sufficient uvb without a supplemented d3. It sounds like your chameleon may have MBD. Can you post pics of him and his cage, from lights down?

 

[kinyonga]

Please post photos so we can see the bumps. Several ...as clear as you can.

 

[ChamoNate]

overall to me he looks healthy other than the bumps and the eyes look as if they may be sunk in a little, maybe he isnt getting enough water from the mister, i will try adding another misting cycle, there is not much foliage as i have tried to accomodate for his illness and get him closer to his food, but now he is using all of his limbs to latch onto a branch, odk if he has been stressed and acting strange since bringing him from vet or maybe the antibiotics made him feel off, but any help is appreciated.

 

[kinyonga]

Your chameleon needs a good chameleon vet ASAP. He does not look well at all.
@JacksJill might be able to give you more information about what's going on.

 

[ChamoNate]

i do not know of any good chameleon vets in arkansas, if anyone knows of any id be glad to know, the local one here just treats reptiles and other animals but i dont think he really knows whats going on

 

[skywes13]

There is unfortunately alot wrong with his husbdandry. I agree he needs an experienced chameleon vet asap. Personally I don't know of any vets in that area, but you can search on: https://arav.org/

 

[ChamoNate]

There is unfortunately alot wrong with his husbdandry. I agree he needs an experienced chameleon vet asap. Personally I don't know of any vets in that area, but you can search on: https://arav.org/

unfortunately after searching for results of herp vets in arkansas there are none that show up on the listing, my only option is the one i have, if there is something wrong with the husbandry i need to know to possibly correct the issues if he is to get better. if it turns out to be to late for him because i did not fully understand how to take care of him and was actually told incorrectly about not giving him additional d3 and euthanization is the only option left i would rather do that than for him to suffer, but if there is any chance in saving him i need to know all information

 

[skywes13]

He looks to be in extremely rough shape /: To put it honestly, he is most likely suffering and it may be too late to save him; but I'll still give you as much feedback as possible. This will all be constructive criticism and not meant to shame or attack you. Give me a minute and I will go over your husbandry. Also, I personally am not a very experienced keeper so I can only say so much, but hopefully someone more experienced can give their own advice. @JacksJill @Beman @Mendez

 

[JacksJill]

It would take some serious diagnostics to get an absolute answer to what is going on if he didn't improve with antibiotics then it was either the wrong antibiotic or his bumps are coming from something other than infection. The other two biggest possibilities are gout or cancer. If you don't have a vet that is comfortable doing blood work or doing a fine needle aspirate sample from the lesions then I don't know what else you can do. I guess pain meds like meloxicam might be worth a try to at least make him comfortable.

 

[skywes13]

I'll put my feedback in red:

Your Chameleon - male jacksons chameleon, 3 and a half years old, have had him since juvenile
Handling - He is never handled, spends almost everyday in cage because does not like being handled
Feeding - eat crickets every other day, crickets eat a calcium powder food.
Okay so lots wrong here. Chameleons benefit from a variety of different food items. I will include an infographic about good feeder insects. Also, get rid of that calcium powder. Your feeder insects should be gutloaded with fresh fruits and vegetables. I will include another infographic about gutloading correctly as well.
Supplements - crickets eat a flukers calcium food
What about what you dust the crickets with? Or do you not dust them with anything? You should be dusting with 3 different powders on specific days. Here is a good post about correct supplementation for Jackson's: https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...tips-warnings-are-welcome.180571/post-1635992
Watering - mist king set to run twice a day for about 5 minutes each time
Since you don't have a hygrometer to measure exact temps it's hard to say if this is correct or not. What times do you run the mist king? Do you ever see your cham drinking? His eyes are extremely sunken in which signals that he is dehydrated. His humidity levels need to be 30-50% during the day, and 75-100% at nighttime. Most jackson's keepers recommend running a fogger overnight to help with nighttime hydration. I personally don't know enough about the ideal fogger schedule, but I'm sure if you search on the forum there will be threads somewhere.
Fecal Description - feces has looked regular but no longer seems to be defecating because hes not eating now, also never been tested for parasites
What is "normal"? This is hard to believe based upon the state of his eyes and how sunken in they are. How long has it been since he last ate?
History - born from some reputable raiser in florida thats all i know
This is a big red flag. There is a difference between breeders and raisers. Raisers tend to deal with wild caught animals, which is not recommended because they are often already in bad health or have parasites. Fecal float is needed asap to rule out parasites contributing to his poor health situation.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - wire mesh on the front and top of enclosure, sides are made of white posterboard
What size is it? It needs to be 24 x 24 x 48. Posterboard? This sounds kind of odd. Get rid of the posterboard, and get clear vinyl shower curtains. Cut them to size and adhere them to the sides of the enclosure with waterproof tape or magnets or something similar that can withstand water. If you need more info or inscrutions on this, search the forum. Many keepers use this method there will be threads somewhere on this site.
Also, clean out the substrate at the bottom, it's a breeding ground for bacteria. Instead I'd suggest creating holes in the bottom and creating a drainage system with a bucket or something similar.
Lighting - light runs all day and is off at night, tropical 13 watt uvb bulb and halogen uva bulb
Okay so the uvb is inncorrect. You need a linear t5 lightbulb & light fixture. I would suggest the arcadia 6.0 or reptisun 5%. Here is a link for a reptisun just so you can get a general idea: https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/zoo-med-reptisun-5.0-uvb-t5-ho.html
Measure the top of your enclosure and get a size that is big enough to run along the length of the top. Keep in mind that you need a fixture as well & the bulb is going to be 2'' shorter than the fixture. Also, the bulb needs to be changed out every 6 months to a year (depending on brand, zoo med reptisun is 6 months, arcadia lasts longer closer to 8 months to a year I believe ? Don't quote me on that one).
I'm not sure about the uva bulb, but I'd recommend getting an incandescent bulb for basking thats a low enough wattage for the correct temperatures.
Temperature - i dont know the actual temp ranges i dont have a temp guage in the enclosure
This is bad too. You need to prioritize getting temperature gauges. I would suggest getting three; one at the same level of the basking branch (the highest branch, which should be 6-8'' away from the lights on top of the enclosure), one on the middle, and one down below. Their temperatures need to be lower than most other species; basking temp. should be 75F-80F, maybe 85F, daytime temp should be 68F-75F, nighttime they need a temp drop to 50F-65F.
Humidity - i dont measure humidity anymore the guage quit but it was running within the range last i had one
You need to get a digital hygrometer asap. I've heard good things about the govee wireless hygrometer.
https://www.amazon.com/Govee-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Bluetooth-Temperature/dp/B07R586J37/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2YVY03EXC610T&keywords=govee+wireless+thermometer+hygrometer&qid=1582848169&smid=A2KZ7X05DCDJDL&sprefix=govee+wireless,aps,196&sr=8-4
Plants - one scheflera plant inside enclosure
Placement - cage is located in back room and window shines some light in.
Location - central Arkansas

Current Problem - not eating or drinking, not using back legs, losing grip in hands

Infographs:

 

[skywes13]

I will link you to some extra resources to research more about your chameleon's needs. Keep in mind that Jackson's have different subspecies, but your little guy seems to be a Trioceros Jacksonii Xantholophus aka Yellow Crested Jackson's. There's a lot of contradicting information online about chameleons, but the Chameleon Academy is a trustworthy source and my personal favorite.
Here is a link to a caresheet about Xanths: https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-con...-Yellow-crested-Jacksons-Chameleon-091320.pdf
If you have more questions or if I didn't mention something, ask on here and I'm sure there will be many keepers willing to help answer your questions, or refer to the chameleon academy's website or podcast. I hope your little guy pulls through.

 

[Mendez]

i took him to the vet and the vet honestly didnt know what it was and gave him an antibiotic shot

How often is he getting an antibiotic injection? Do you know what the medication is called? I just want to make sure that you know an antibiotic is more than a one-time thing. Usually, it consists of a series of injections at regular intervals.

I also agree with what @skywes13 has advised.

To go a little more in-depth on supplementation, D3 is an absolute must. Jacksons chameleons are sensitive to over-supplementation, but this just means that we have to be a little more careful. When looking for a calcium with D3 product, you want to look for something with low D3. An excellent choice is Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. The "LoD" specifies that the supplement has lower D3 levels than Repashy Calcium Plus. Make sure to get the one with LoD! Repashy calcium plus LoD should be given twice a month. This supplement also has a multivitamin, so need to get a separate multivitamin supplement.

Link for LoD: https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calcium-Plus-LoD-JAR/dp/B00DLJRMV2

In addition to the D3 and multivitamin given twice a month, you need a plain calcium supplement that you can use on every feeding to balance the phosphorous to calcium ratio of some feeders. Feeders that need to be dusted every time are crickets, dubia roaches, and superworms. You don't need to dust insects such as black soldier fly larvae, silkworms, and hornworms. Some good plain calcium supplements are Arcadia Earthpro-Ca and Repashy Supercal NoD.

Earthpro-Ca: http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-earthpro-ca-calcium-100g/
or Supercal NoD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3BKCGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And for gutloading/feeding your feeder insects: the goal here is to feed what is nutritious for the insect. This way the insect is as healthy as possible for your chameleon to eat. You can get commercial gut loads such as Repashy Bug Burger. Or you can use the fresh veggies and grains mentioned in the gutloading sheet posted above by skywes. Do not gutload with a calcium food.

Concerns: Do you ever see your cham basking on the single branch provided? It seems almost out of reach. Additionally, you need to add a lot more branches. He is too big to be walking around on a small shleffera.

I find it hard to believe that your cham is getting the proper temps and uvb needed to thrive. UVB and heat need to be absolutely perfect. If the basking temperature is too low, he will have a hard time digesting foods, as well as synthesizing vitamin D.

Additionally, if you are using this version of Fluker's Calcium Cricket diet, then it has D3 in it: https://www.chewy.com/flukers-high-...Z9BCcRY2Muo094g7C4_u_ouglYskaVOoaAvbBEALw_wcB

I'm not sure of the D3 levels, but if you are only feeding crickets, then over-supplementation of D3 could be possible. @kinyonga might know. Perhaps the D3 is redistributing the calcium from the bones to other parts of the body--hence the bumps under the skin?

You really need to get a temperature probe to check out the basking temps. Like @skywes13 said, you need a t5 HO uvb bulb. Likely, you are over supplementing and under exposing your cham to uvb and heat. You need to add more branches and more plants.

 

[ChamoNate]

How often is he getting an antibiotic injection? Do you know what the medication is called? I just want to make sure that you know an antibiotic is more than a one-time thing. Usually, it consists of a series of injections at regular intervals.

I also agree with what @skywes13 has advised.

To go a little more in-depth on supplementation, D3 is an absolute must. Jacksons chameleons are sensitive to over-supplementation, but this just means that we have to be a little more careful. When looking for a calcium with D3 product, you want to look for something with low D3. An excellent choice is Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. The "LoD" specifies that the supplement has lower D3 levels than Repashy Calcium Plus. Make sure to get the one with LoD! Repashy calcium plus LoD should be given twice a month. This supplement also has a multivitamin, so need to get a separate multivitamin supplement.

Link for LoD: https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calcium-Plus-LoD-JAR/dp/B00DLJRMV2

In addition to the D3 and multivitamin given twice a month, you need a plain calcium supplement that you can use on every feeding to balance the phosphorous to calcium ratio of some feeders. Feeders that need to be dusted every time are crickets, dubia roaches, and superworms. You don't need to dust insects such as black soldier fly larvae, silkworms, and hornworms. Some good plain calcium supplements are Arcadia Earthpro-Ca and Repashy Supercal NoD.

Earthpro-Ca: http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-earthpro-ca-calcium-100g/
or Supercal NoD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3BKCGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And for gutloading/feeding your feeder insects: the goal here is to feed what is nutritious for the insect. This way the insect is as healthy as possible for your chameleon to eat. You can get commercial gut loads such as Repashy Bug Burger. Or you can use the fresh veggies and grains mentioned in the gutloading sheet posted above by skywes. Do not gutload with a calcium food.

Concerns: Do you ever see your cham basking on the single branch provided? It seems almost out of reach. Additionally, you need to add a lot more branches. He is too big to be walking around on a small shleffera.

I find it hard to believe that your cham is getting the proper temps and uvb needed to thrive. UVB and heat need to be absolutely perfect. If the basking temperature is too low, he will have a hard time digesting foods, as well as synthesizing vitamin D.

Additionally, if you are using this version of Fluker's Calcium Cricket diet, then it has D3 in it: https://www.chewy.com/flukers-high-calcium-cricket-diet/dp/126140?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Fluker's&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0oCDBhCPARIsAII3C_Hy0AcuWreW7dPMBIfk64fZ9BCcRY2Muo094g7C4_u_ouglYskaVOoaAvbBEALw_wcB

I'm not sure of the D3 levels, but if you are only feeding crickets, then over-supplementation of D3 could be possible. @kinyonga might know. Perhaps the D3 is redistributing the calcium from the bones to other parts of the body--hence the bumps under the skin?

You really need to get a temperature probe to check out the basking temps. Like @skywes13 said, you need a t5 HO uvb bulb. Likely, you are over supplementing and under exposing your cham to uvb and heat. You need to add more branches and more plants.

i really appreciate the replies, like i said i took him on and he has been eating and drinking and doing his business regularly and then suddenly out of the blue these bumps started to develop and then after i took him to vet and he got an antibiotic he has gone downhill very badly, within a week of the second shot he has stopped eating and drinking and now he is very slow, no longer opens his eyes, just sits there and honestly looks like he is dying....my vet has been out for spring break and would not accept emergency calls which really pissed me off, but i am going to try to get him in tomorrow and just see if there is anything he can do but i believe he has had a bad reaction to the antibiotic choice and therefore i am nervous to take him back to vet but i have no idea what to do for him because he is not responsive to anything i do, he doesnt know what handfeeding is and i cant force feed him, cant get him to open his mouth, im just at a loss because i know that all this time not giving him d3 and not feeding the crickets properly has most likely done most of this if not all of it...and i know this is my fault but i was given inaccurate info about the d3 when i first got him, i just never gave it to him because the breeder told me they dont do well with it in supplementation, im almost positive that he is fading away and there is nothing the vet will be able to do for him and it is all my fault, and the fact that there are no good herp vets anywhere close by is a shame.

 

[Mendez]

i really appreciate the replies, like i said i took him on and he has been eating and drinking and doing his business regularly and then suddenly out of the blue these bumps started to develop and then after i took him to vet and he got an antibiotic he has gone downhill very badly, within a week of the second shot he has stopped eating and drinking and now he is very slow, no longer opens his eyes, just sits there and honestly looks like he is dying....my vet has been out for spring break and would not accept emergency calls which really pissed me off, but i am going to try to get him in tomorrow and just see if there is anything he can do but i believe he has had a bad reaction to the antibiotic choice and therefore i am nervous to take him back to vet but i have no idea what to do for him because he is not responsive to anything i do, he doesnt know what handfeeding is and i cant force feed him, cant get him to open his mouth, im just at a loss because i know that all this time not giving him d3 and not feeding the crickets properly has most likely done most of this if not all of it...and i know this is my fault but i was given inaccurate info about the d3 when i first got him, i just never gave it to him because the breeder told me they dont do well with it in supplementation, im almost positive that he is fading away and there is nothing the vet will be able to do for him and it is all my fault, and the fact that there are no good herp vets anywhere close by is a shame.

Don't blame yourself. You are here now and seeking the truth. Nobody is going to ridicule you. We all feel your pain. Many of us have been in a similar situation.

I'll look over the rest of what you posted later. Busy, but I just wanted to let you know that you shouldn't blame yourself. Just make sure to spread the knowledge that you gain here. Make sure that nobody makes the same mistakes that you have.

 

[skywes13]

i really appreciate the replies, like i said i took him on and he has been eating and drinking and doing his business regularly and then suddenly out of the blue these bumps started to develop and then after i took him to vet and he got an antibiotic he has gone downhill very badly, within a week of the second shot he has stopped eating and drinking and now he is very slow, no longer opens his eyes, just sits there and honestly looks like he is dying....my vet has been out for spring break and would not accept emergency calls which really pissed me off, but i am going to try to get him in tomorrow and just see if there is anything he can do but i believe he has had a bad reaction to the antibiotic choice and therefore i am nervous to take him back to vet but i have no idea what to do for him because he is not responsive to anything i do, he doesnt know what handfeeding is and i cant force feed him, cant get him to open his mouth, im just at a loss because i know that all this time not giving him d3 and not feeding the crickets properly has most likely done most of this if not all of it...and i know this is my fault but i was given inaccurate info about the d3 when i first got him, i just never gave it to him because the breeder told me they dont do well with it in supplementation, im almost positive that he is fading away and there is nothing the vet will be able to do for him and it is all my fault, and the fact that there are no good herp vets anywhere close by is a shame.

When chameleons get sick they deteriorate extremely quickly because in the wild, since they're a prey animal, they hide any signs of sickness or weakness in order to survive. When they do start to show symptoms it's because they're so sick that their bodies can't bear to mask it any longer. It is really great of you to come on here asking for help and willing to learn! Also, you got the wrong information through someone who probably wasn't running the best establishment, which is unfortunately quite common in the chameleon trade. What matters most is now you're trying to fix your previous mistakes and that is very good of you.

As for what you could do next, I'm kind of at a loss. My first thought was maybe it's gout and the bumps could be a buildup of uric acid crystals, but his joints don't appear to be swollen so I think that counts that one out. Next I thought well maybe MBD, Metabollic Bone Disorder, which is caused by a lack of proper uvb and supplementation and that would be true here, and maybe the bumps are broken bones or ribs; however, MBD is very obvious and I don't necessarily see the obvious signs from the pictures you showed us. Obviously, I'm not a vet and I could be wrong but I think it would show in the pictures if it was either of those issues. In my honest opinion, unfortunately I think it may be most humane to consider euthanizing him. He's in pretty rough condition and without an experienced chameleon vet (even if you did have one available to you I don't think there would be much they could do without going to extreme lengths that may be incredibly painful and/or expensive) it might be most humane to allow him to rest. ):

Again, it is great that you came on here trying to right your wrongs, and it isn't entirely your fault. Chameleons are high maintenance little creatures who sometimes don't do the best in captivity. Don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[ChamoNate]

i am taking him to a credible ARAV veteranarian tomorrow if they will accept him. idc what it costs i just wsnt to get good answers, one thing i failed to mention about the bumps is that they are fiilled with a white pus, ghat is something the previous vet did was extract the pus from some of them, i assume it may be a serious bacterial infection of somekind that has progressed severely.....if he is still alive in the morning and i pray he will be will be taking him to the credible vet in Sherwood Arkansas, im very thankful for the informative and intelligent people in this forum. i have been very upset and hard on myself about this.